new kenmore elite drawer dishwasher not cutting it....

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Well, I'm happy with our Siemens. Regular cycle takes 140 minutes and uses 14 liters or 67 minutes and 18 liters if I use the VarioSpeed option. While this is less water than most US dishwashers use, cleaning is superb. Even if there is water left in indentations of cups which have been placed in the corners of the upper rack - it's clear because the DW has a four-stage filtration.

Despite the lower water level the water pressure is very powerful. I remember throwing some screws in the cutlery basket (I always remove the handles of lids before loading them into the DW). Then I closed the cutlery basket's flip-down cover and added all the cutlery. At the end of the cycle all the screws were trapped in the filter - the water jet just shot them through the basket even though it was loaded with cutlery AND the cover was closed.

Alex
 
It is amazing how dw performance has been allowed to fall in the name of energy efficiency and quiet operation. Frigilux has shown us photographic proof that his Maytag gets dishes clean, but those cycles take as long as the pot smasher cycles on old WP and GE dishwashers of the 70s and 80s. My Maytag dishwasher washes well and in a relatively normal cycle time-wise although with just a tower that pops up through the lower rack, it cannot be packed like my 18 Superbas. It has a fan and dries really well, but the new dishwashers eliminated the fan to keep the machine more quiet. I don't know who needs a silent dishwasher, but I would let them have to wash dishes by hand three times a day for a family like we did back in the 1950s and see if a little bit of sound from a dishwasher is not better. I think that people who demand a silent dishwasher are either spoiled or dine mostly in restaurants and are divorced from the sounds of a kitchen, or are among the unfortunate few who have such small living space that the phone and home entertainment system are in the same small room as the dishwasher.
 
dishwasher performance

I have a 2 1/2 y/o Kenmore Elite dishwasher. Not quite the TOL model, but basically the same thing. Other than the fact that it has had a motor replacement before its first birthday, it seems to work fine. My observation has been that for the WP talltub machines, the type of detergent you use is very important. I have found that liquid/gel detergents cause the machine to sudslock. The water level is very low and for whatever reason gels suds up alot and that pretty much halts performance because the motor is basically pumping air and dishes are not getting cleaned. Cascade Complete powder has worked the best for this machine in my experience. No sudsing giving the motor full spraying power and cleans very well.

You have to be sure the rinse agent is full too. Newer WP are rather generous with the rinse agent so it doesn't last as long. 99% I've had good luck with this combination. Hope that helps someone.
 
I love my Bosch!

I had one in the old house and put one in this house too. It does take forever but cleans the hell out of everything I throw at it. The house had a 10 year old TOL GE that did an OK job of cleaning but I hated the racks (had the dreaded pop up tower) and the damn thing sounded like a truck in the kitchen.

I have put in crusty crock pots in this Bosch that come out clean and I don't have any of the gunk in the glasses that some talk about.

Mine has a short wash cycle but it doesn't seem to take much less time than the Super Scrub cycle. I am sorry to say I have a bunch of buttons on mine and always use the one for the extended scrub cycle.

Based on what I've read here I may try some of the others to see if the cleaning is any different. I use Cascade Complete powder in mine.
 
Gansky1:

I've had my Bosch dishwasher, Model #SHX46A, for just about 2yrs now. I just love the thing. Super,Super quiet, cleans like a white tornado, and I've only had 1 repair, the door handle came loose. Yes, It was expensive, however, you can usually get it on sale. I strongly recommend it.
 
Time/Temperature Correlation

Has anyone tried running one of these dishwashers that have cycles that go on forever on a water supply of 140F or higher
to see if it shortens the cycle? I am trying to find out if the main wash and last rinse (and any other portions of the cycle where water heating is done) are going to be as long even if the water does not have to be heated. In other words would it just grind on as if it were heating water but without the heating element being energized?
Thanks,
Tom
 
Retromom, what say you? Chime-in girl!

I like them in theory, but they are not as deep as American machines and the racking is a bit different....

At one time you could still get one with a TIMER! YAY

No heated dry option, BTW! But a super hot final rinse compensates for this!
 
Our absolutely BOL (somehow I relish saying that!)Kenmore (GE) builders grade DW has been running for 13 years without a hitch. We have used it just about every single day since we bought this place 5 years ago. It cleans well and it only takes about 50 minutes from start to end. I am sure our neighbors can hear it when it runs!
We used to pre rinse, but after reading that it may be better not to, we stopped that and just put the dishes in. It cleans just as well. We use either Wal-Mart detergent or Electrosol powder.
Of course it has no cycles. Just a dial that says "Start" and a hot dry/cool dry switch. They are still making this model under numerous brand names. I have even seen it on sale at Home Depot for $149.95 one time!
Of course we will get something better when we get around to our long thought of kitchen expansion/remodel.
 
Time Temperature

Mostly depends on if the timing system is somehow routed through the heating system, and or some sort of thermostat, IIRC. Our Kenmore/Frigidiare 18" model has a mechanical timer that has a specific on/off section as it moves round for heating. If one has not selected "water heat" the dw still will "sit" in that area for a particular time, then move on.
To me this means that the heating system is designed to heat by time not temp. That is if the water does not reach the desired temp within the alloted time, the dw does not "care" and will move on.

During the winter months when the boilers are on, hot water out of our kitchen tap reaches the 135F-140F or higher range, and the dw takes the exact amount of time to complete a wash cycle as during the warmer months with the boilers off and hot water only reaches 120F or a bit above.

My vintage Miele washing machine has the same system, that is the timer is not routed though any sort of thermostat, but uses an alloted pre-set time to heat water. Mind you on 220v power it will reach any of the selected temps, up to 200F quite quickly. However on 120V (this machine runs on both 120V and 220V, one has choose temps/cycles carefully and watch the timer. Thankfully can control incoming water temp from the taps and usually use warm water to fill when using temps of 140F and above, and sometimes even 120V as it speeds things along instead of starting from tap cold water.

L.
 
Heating Concerns

If you're looking for an American dishwasher that can still heat water quickly and logically, PLEASE took at the GE tall tub machines.
Just go look at their beefy Calrod unit.
We have the Triton XL at home and I can attest to it's speediness of heating.
When the Antibacteria cycle is used, the final 155F rinse is no longer than 30min. So it's able to get the water from 120 to 155F and hold it there, in a half hour or less. I think that's fantastic.

Check them out! You'll be glad you did.

Oh, and they load and wash fantastically too. WITH FULL PRESSURE.
 
Well, according to the most recent Whirlpool tech sheet for their TOL dishwasher (the ones with the spray jets at the back of the tub) the heater will energize on all cycles during the main wash and final rinse, regardless if High Temp is selected or not. The tech sheet also mentions thermal holds (up to three during a cycle). It says the dishwasher: "[...] pauses 2 or 3 times during the cycle for thermal holds and advances once temperature is met." I wonder, however, if the DW will also heat cold water to the target temp or if it'll just advance at some point (timeout).
 
My KitchenAid DW only drinks Lake Michigan water.

My KitchenAid Tall Tub does a phenomenal job of cleaning dishes. Never any grit leftover and everything is just squeaky clean. It is so interesting how others can have completely opposite experiences. My curiosity is piqued!
I use Electra-Sol liquid and the unit was installed by the contractor.
... Maybe it's the fabulous Lake Michigan water! Whirlpool HQ is nearby and probably designed the unit using the same water.... Yeah.. that's it. It's the water..
 
Yeah, I was going to say why would the tall tubs perform differently than others in the model line? I didn't think they used any less water.
 
My Maytag tall tub works great, but as mentioned above, the gel detergents caused suds lock and nothing came clean. Cascade Complete powder and keep the rinse agent full, and life is good! Normal Cycle with Sanitize and no heat dry gets things really clean. You can wash a spaghetti pot with wine glasses. A little noisy when some food chunks get in the grinder, though. I have the two rack one, the three rack one seems silly and conterintuitive to load flexibility.
 
Alexander,

The Whirlpool - depending on the board revision - has an out of range function which doesn't even try if the water is too cold (or too hot).
My Miele's instruction book says hot water is ok, but the cycle programming compensates somewhat to balance the otherwise shorter time caused by not having to heat the water as much. Miele also warns against using hot water as the slow rise in temperature from cold to warm and from warm to hot gives first the enzymes and then the bleach(s) each their perfect operating environment.
I don't know - in both kitchens, one with 60°C hot water and here with "only" cold, it has always washed everything perfectly. Of course, it was top rated for cleaning, although at 2,100DM it was not (nearly!!!) the most expensive Miele at the time I bought it.
It seems to me to make more sense to just spend the money on a really good vintage Kitchen Aid or GE or new Miele or Bosch than to waste it on the crap which is offered on the market today from domestic makers (exceptions abound, but those are usually just as expensive as the Bosch stuff.
The nice thing about Miele is that the quality and results are not affected by the price. The "BOL" mentality we use in the 'States just doesn't apply. A friend has a Primavera - their "bargain" line (you only have to rob one bank to buy them) and it has washed just as well and for just as long as mine.
 
cny4, The tall tub WP made dishwshers are radically different than the standard tub dishwashers. To give the tub the extra depth, the vertical motor with the strong Power-Clean pump module on top was replaced by a small wash pump and a small drain pump. Even as small as the pump is, it is able to throw more water than the very shallow sump can hold. That is why the surging action is used. It is only when the pump stops that enough water fills the sump for the pump to suck in a sufficient charge of water to have enough pressure to reach the upper areas of the tank. And as soon as that blast of water is sent up, the pump pressure drops because the water in the sump is not deep enough to keep air and water from being sucked into the pump. Older "2" speed Whirlpool and GE dishwashers had a gentle cycle where the machine did not fill with as much water. That yielded a sort of aerated spray which was less likely to knock delicate stuff around. Unfortunately, a similar gentle spray is what the new WP made tall tubs are using to wash everything.
 
yes, as far as i know, all GE dial dishwashers will have a less filled rinse directly after the main wash. you can hear the pump cavitating during that rinse.
 
John, GE also did that on the rinse between the main wash & pre-rinse for older dial/button GEs which used the same 60 minute cycle for both Light & Normal Washes. My GSD1200 does the "delicate/china/crystal" "fill" on the rinse between the 2 washes when Energy Saver wash cycle is selected. And as you state, the Normal & PotScrubber cycles have that "partial" fill one the first of 3 rinses after the main wash. Light soil only has 2 post-wash rinses.
 
Maybe Whirlpool should have used that wax motor to introduce alternating spray arms instead of this PowerScour / Turbo Zone feature. That way the water pressure could be increased despite the "low" water level.
 
~Unfortunately, a similar gentle spray is what the new WP made tall tubs are using to wash everything.

Unfortunately, a similar gentle spray is what the new WP made tall tubs are using (in an attempt) to wash everything.
 
Beware of Kenmore, Whirlpool and KA tall tubs.

I'm just jumping in on this thread and noticed Toggles dissin' my dishwasher.

I don't see what's wrong with these. I have a KM with smartwash and I've very rarely had a dish come out with something stuck to it. I use the Cascade/Dawn 2-in-1 tabs and everything, even pans with stuck-on gunk came out squeeky clean. And that's using Smartwash with all options on (heated wash, sani-rinse, heated dry). It remembers the last cycle so all I need to do is load, drop in a detergent tab, close door, push start, go to bed and enjoy the sounds.
 
I agree with JasonL

I've has my Kenmore TT w/TurboZone. Everything comes out spotless, whether I use regular Cascade powder or my 2-in-1 Action Pacs. If I feel something would really be a challenge for it (like baked-on salmon), Then I use 1 ActionPac and some Cascade for pre-wash, select all options on SmartWash, and load the pan in the TurboZone area. Everything comes out spotless the next day.
 

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