These are fairly low end, no SS tub and as you note, no splittable uensil basket.
New Kenmore Ultra Wash Dishwashers!
- Thread starter peteski50
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Kenmore!
This Whirlpool vedio shows how one spray arm operates at a time most likely like the Frigidaire units. Kenmore doesnt seem to mention this but it must do the same thing!
http://webapps.easy2.com/cm2/flash/generic_index.asp?page_id=36178107
This Whirlpool vedio shows how one spray arm operates at a time most likely like the Frigidaire units. Kenmore doesnt seem to mention this but it must do the same thing!
http://webapps.easy2.com/cm2/flash/generic_index.asp?page_id=36178107
US DWs use more water than European models
Keep in mind that US machines are a LOT larger inside and hold a lot more dishes. Both the top and bottom racks are about 4" deeper front to back and both racks are at least an inch wider, this translates into at least 25% more usable room inside to say nothing how much more easily you can wash large items that wouldn't fit in European machines at all.
Keep in mind that US machines are a LOT larger inside and hold a lot more dishes. Both the top and bottom racks are about 4" deeper front to back and both racks are at least an inch wider, this translates into at least 25% more usable room inside to say nothing how much more easily you can wash large items that wouldn't fit in European machines at all.
Hi John,
The external Dimensions according to the sears website are 61cm x 61cm x 85cm
A standard Euro Dishwasher is 60cm x 60xm x 81cm tall, with the XXL 60cm x 60cm x 85cm
I'm not sure how an american dishwasher manages to be 10cm longer front to back than a euro one, when there is only 1cm difference between the exterior dimension.
???
Nathan
The external Dimensions according to the sears website are 61cm x 61cm x 85cm
A standard Euro Dishwasher is 60cm x 60xm x 81cm tall, with the XXL 60cm x 60cm x 85cm
I'm not sure how an american dishwasher manages to be 10cm longer front to back than a euro one, when there is only 1cm difference between the exterior dimension.
???
Nathan
Whirlpool!
On the Whirlpool website the new models are not displayed. I was just checking AJ Madison and the bottom of the page has 3 new models with instructions and all!
http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Whirlpool;Full+Console;Dishwashers/N~64+4294965495+4294967279
On the Whirlpool website the new models are not displayed. I was just checking AJ Madison and the bottom of the page has 3 new models with instructions and all!
http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Whirlpool;Full+Console;Dishwashers/N~64+4294965495+4294967279
LOAD CAPACITY OF DWs
Hi Nathan all I can suggest is to measure the racks I know just the other week when I was looking at the Bosch DWs at the local Lowes store there was at leash a 4" difference in the front to back space. Maybe these new KM Ultra DWs are smaller [ I would never have one anyway ]
. In my W Va house I installed one of the KA International Collection DWs that was made in Germany in the 1990s in the utility clean-up area. At first I was impressed with how quite it is, but then I found that nothing fits in it { I installed it to clean large pots and pans and parts from the outdoor Jenn-Air electric grill ]. And then I found out that it runs for hours and hours, and it does eventually get things clean looking but the final rinse water sitting in the sump is still dirty and the machine starts to smell by the time we use the house again in a few weeks.
If anyone would like this KA IC DW its free to a good home and a have a box of spare parts for them.
Hi Nathan all I can suggest is to measure the racks I know just the other week when I was looking at the Bosch DWs at the local Lowes store there was at leash a 4" difference in the front to back space. Maybe these new KM Ultra DWs are smaller [ I would never have one anyway ]
. In my W Va house I installed one of the KA International Collection DWs that was made in Germany in the 1990s in the utility clean-up area. At first I was impressed with how quite it is, but then I found that nothing fits in it { I installed it to clean large pots and pans and parts from the outdoor Jenn-Air electric grill ]. And then I found out that it runs for hours and hours, and it does eventually get things clean looking but the final rinse water sitting in the sump is still dirty and the machine starts to smell by the time we use the house again in a few weeks.
If anyone would like this KA IC DW its free to a good home and a have a box of spare parts for them.
The installation guide for a current kitchenaid shows that the depth is 62.5cm, width is 60.6cm.
I've just Measured the lower basket Miele at 51cm front to back, vs the 68 Fridgidaire at 58cm. On the outside the Fridgidaire is 65cm deep. So there is 2.8" difference there internally and no sound insulation
.
Can anyone measure what the depth is on the baskets in a newish US dishwasher? Most of the basic models on the whirlpool website all seem to be 61cm deep.
That manual above suggests it only takes 10 place settings, I get 15 place settings into the same space, that washes in about 2/3's of the water. The sump in mine is always clear when the machine finishes.
I've just Measured the lower basket Miele at 51cm front to back, vs the 68 Fridgidaire at 58cm. On the outside the Fridgidaire is 65cm deep. So there is 2.8" difference there internally and no sound insulation
Can anyone measure what the depth is on the baskets in a newish US dishwasher? Most of the basic models on the whirlpool website all seem to be 61cm deep.
That manual above suggests it only takes 10 place settings, I get 15 place settings into the same space, that washes in about 2/3's of the water. The sump in mine is always clear when the machine finishes.
New Whirlpools/AJ Madison
Peter, thanks for the posting and new products. As of the present, you can still get KitchenAids (fairly high-end models) and Maytags with soft-food disposer. These new ones all have the filters. And as usual the cyclews are longer--I can just hear y'all all bellowing now!! And the overnight cycle is like 7 hours long--looks like all they did was incorporate their old 4-hour soak option into a typical cycle and voilla, the overnight cycle. As y'all know, I"m not a rinser and I don't really scrape all that well either. I used to talk with Greg quite extensively about him not scraping all that well nor rinsing when he had his Asko. He very rarely found anything in the filter. I think the big main difference between the ASKO and these Whirly products is that the ASKO washed at very high temperatures of 155 to 170 degrees for main wash and emulsified anything in the filter that had collected and down the drian it went. These don't have very high water temps, even with high-temp scrup option selected. I wish these manufacturers would let me test these new products out. My environment would still be beyond what a typical family does to their dishes and dishwasherss. I'd love to get them to see the most intense with cooler temps wouldn't survive well in my applicatons. I vaguely remember GE is working on their next dishwasher platform that will be produced at appliance park. Will be interesting to see if their new products have filters or soft-food disposers. If KitchenAid can offer product with soft food disposer that has a 48-50 dB level, I think that is very vey silent. I thnk it's hogwash they are using the excuse that nongrinder models are quietest. They just odn't wanna try and come up with technology that disposes of soft food and is quiet so they cop out and use European design.
I remember ONE TIME I loaded our 1960 Waste King with berakfast dishes without pre-rinsing and ran it. My mom was completely grossed out that there were scrambled egg remnants in the filter at the bottom of the tub. So much for not ever prewashing anything that went into that dishwasher (or any subsequent dishwasher at our house--unless she was out of the house)
Peter, thanks for the posting and new products. As of the present, you can still get KitchenAids (fairly high-end models) and Maytags with soft-food disposer. These new ones all have the filters. And as usual the cyclews are longer--I can just hear y'all all bellowing now!! And the overnight cycle is like 7 hours long--looks like all they did was incorporate their old 4-hour soak option into a typical cycle and voilla, the overnight cycle. As y'all know, I"m not a rinser and I don't really scrape all that well either. I used to talk with Greg quite extensively about him not scraping all that well nor rinsing when he had his Asko. He very rarely found anything in the filter. I think the big main difference between the ASKO and these Whirly products is that the ASKO washed at very high temperatures of 155 to 170 degrees for main wash and emulsified anything in the filter that had collected and down the drian it went. These don't have very high water temps, even with high-temp scrup option selected. I wish these manufacturers would let me test these new products out. My environment would still be beyond what a typical family does to their dishes and dishwasherss. I'd love to get them to see the most intense with cooler temps wouldn't survive well in my applicatons. I vaguely remember GE is working on their next dishwasher platform that will be produced at appliance park. Will be interesting to see if their new products have filters or soft-food disposers. If KitchenAid can offer product with soft food disposer that has a 48-50 dB level, I think that is very vey silent. I thnk it's hogwash they are using the excuse that nongrinder models are quietest. They just odn't wanna try and come up with technology that disposes of soft food and is quiet so they cop out and use European design.
I remember ONE TIME I loaded our 1960 Waste King with berakfast dishes without pre-rinsing and ran it. My mom was completely grossed out that there were scrambled egg remnants in the filter at the bottom of the tub. So much for not ever prewashing anything that went into that dishwasher (or any subsequent dishwasher at our house--unless she was out of the house)
New dishwashers!
I don't object to the filters and in fact I do like the way these new ones look. The loading looks easy and their is something cool about them. I also don't mind that each wash arm operates seperatly. What I don't like is the extreamly long operating times and well as the lower temperatures. To me this is a big lack in flexability as well as going several steps backwards. If at least if the wash temperature was higher it would also contribute to a faster washing time. I dont understand what the reason is. And yes I did get a laugh at that overnight up to 7 hour cycle. (how crazy is that)!
Peter
I don't object to the filters and in fact I do like the way these new ones look. The loading looks easy and their is something cool about them. I also don't mind that each wash arm operates seperatly. What I don't like is the extreamly long operating times and well as the lower temperatures. To me this is a big lack in flexability as well as going several steps backwards. If at least if the wash temperature was higher it would also contribute to a faster washing time. I dont understand what the reason is. And yes I did get a laugh at that overnight up to 7 hour cycle. (how crazy is that)!
Peter
I have to laugh
Growning up, we didn't have a dishwasher in the house. Mom would always tease us about getting one, then shut up about it. Back then (in the 1970's), I would hear people complain that the dishwasher would take an hour from start to finish. I never that that an hour was that long, considering that, (in most cases), 20 to 30 mins of the 60 mins was drying time. When I had my Bosch in Florida, it would take 110-120 mins. That never bothered my either. Infact, I liked that it took that long. It only used like 5 gals of water in the normal wash and everything always came out shinny clean. I would usually turn the dishwasher on around 9pm at night, so I didn't care how long it took. If I had to run it during the day, It was usually right after a meal and by the time I was ready to start preparing the next meal, the dishes we're done and I would unload before starting to cook. If it was a holiday or family get together, I would load it with utensiles and pots, Pans, and turn it on just before we would all sit down to eat.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. To me, these Kenmore Ultra Wash HE, remind me of the Bosch Wash system. Same Filter design, Same Wash arm shape, and spray jets. Only real difference is that Kenmore has an exposed heating element and he Bosch does not. I would so buy one of these right now. I only had to clean my filter once a month or sometimes less. Most times when cleaning the filter, simply running it under faucet with hot water would clean it off. It was very rare that I had to do any scrubing to it.
Growning up, we didn't have a dishwasher in the house. Mom would always tease us about getting one, then shut up about it. Back then (in the 1970's), I would hear people complain that the dishwasher would take an hour from start to finish. I never that that an hour was that long, considering that, (in most cases), 20 to 30 mins of the 60 mins was drying time. When I had my Bosch in Florida, it would take 110-120 mins. That never bothered my either. Infact, I liked that it took that long. It only used like 5 gals of water in the normal wash and everything always came out shinny clean. I would usually turn the dishwasher on around 9pm at night, so I didn't care how long it took. If I had to run it during the day, It was usually right after a meal and by the time I was ready to start preparing the next meal, the dishes we're done and I would unload before starting to cook. If it was a holiday or family get together, I would load it with utensiles and pots, Pans, and turn it on just before we would all sit down to eat.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. To me, these Kenmore Ultra Wash HE, remind me of the Bosch Wash system. Same Filter design, Same Wash arm shape, and spray jets. Only real difference is that Kenmore has an exposed heating element and he Bosch does not. I would so buy one of these right now. I only had to clean my filter once a month or sometimes less. Most times when cleaning the filter, simply running it under faucet with hot water would clean it off. It was very rare that I had to do any scrubing to it.
Cycle Times!
It is not even the cycle times themselves but the amount of time they use to heat water makes no sense - if anyone looks above it states it takes 25 to 45 minutes to heat water to 130 (what happened to heating to 140) I thought that was a more standard temperature. Also I personally want my dishes washed in hotter water. Also older models would go from 120 - 140 in about 15 minutes max! So I cant figure what this is all about. All this new stuff is so unnessary. Is the newer detergents designed to work in cooler water or what? Even with the cutback on water usage I cant figure out why it takes so long to heat it and why it is using lower temperatures to wash with. It should be the opposite taking less time to heat and utilizing higher temperatures.
It is not even the cycle times themselves but the amount of time they use to heat water makes no sense - if anyone looks above it states it takes 25 to 45 minutes to heat water to 130 (what happened to heating to 140) I thought that was a more standard temperature. Also I personally want my dishes washed in hotter water. Also older models would go from 120 - 140 in about 15 minutes max! So I cant figure what this is all about. All this new stuff is so unnessary. Is the newer detergents designed to work in cooler water or what? Even with the cutback on water usage I cant figure out why it takes so long to heat it and why it is using lower temperatures to wash with. It should be the opposite taking less time to heat and utilizing higher temperatures.
Water Usage!
Another point - being less water is used being the arms operate one at a time water should be heated faster and at a higher temperature - the whole new concept make no sense!
Another point - being less water is used being the arms operate one at a time water should be heated faster and at a higher temperature - the whole new concept make no sense!
Thanks for posting the manual; as always, it's an education to learn how the newest machines work. Interesting that temps are getting lower. Wonder which brand will move it down to 120-125 degrees? I would imagine that detergent manufacturers are trying to come up with formulas that will work in lower temps.
I, like others here, have wondered how cycles can be so long, yet energy use is reduced. The manual states that there are "soak" periods in which the motor/pump isn't running. Suppose that explains a few things. I don't know how they could possibly use smaller motors and pumps. I think manufacturers have pushed those downsizes to their practical limit.
As for individual/alternating rack washing, I'm fine with it. My LG (and a Frigidaire I had before Smokey The Maytag) washes each rack alternately and results are spectacular. As long as the LG remains reliable (a big problem with LG dishwashers, according to Consumer Reports) I've never had a better dishwasher--and I've had a lot of 'em!
I, like others here, have wondered how cycles can be so long, yet energy use is reduced. The manual states that there are "soak" periods in which the motor/pump isn't running. Suppose that explains a few things. I don't know how they could possibly use smaller motors and pumps. I think manufacturers have pushed those downsizes to their practical limit.
As for individual/alternating rack washing, I'm fine with it. My LG (and a Frigidaire I had before Smokey The Maytag) washes each rack alternately and results are spectacular. As long as the LG remains reliable (a big problem with LG dishwashers, according to Consumer Reports) I've never had a better dishwasher--and I've had a lot of 'em!
Peter, lower wattage motors and lower wattage heating elemtns. Both translate to much less power draw over time. That was also a part of the intent of the design.
I suspect for most households' applications, the 1-hour wash cycle is more than sufficient. And the "enhancement" to that cycle over the generation of machine I have is that the dry cycle is an option for this cycle, where as, my quick wash 30 minute cycle doesn't offer that capability.
I suspect for most households' applications, the 1-hour wash cycle is more than sufficient. And the "enhancement" to that cycle over the generation of machine I have is that the dry cycle is an option for this cycle, where as, my quick wash 30 minute cycle doesn't offer that capability.
One Hour Wash!
I think a lot of people will use this option and I bet at least half. The problem is that you cannot use the hi temp or sani option with this cycle. So if you dont have hot enough water the dishes wont get really clean. Also people will probably just keep prerinsing. All told in my openion this process is highly ineffective. Really cracks me up that this cycle is the shortest.
I think a lot of people will use this option and I bet at least half. The problem is that you cannot use the hi temp or sani option with this cycle. So if you dont have hot enough water the dishes wont get really clean. Also people will probably just keep prerinsing. All told in my openion this process is highly ineffective. Really cracks me up that this cycle is the shortest.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
me i use the smart wash cycle only and i use the no heat dry option the only options i use are the turbo zone option and high temp option as well as no heat dry i will never use the heat dry function on my dishwasher.
Peter, I really think most peopill rinse most everything off anyway. I also am of the belief most families wouldn't use any options unless there was an illness in the family. I odn't know of anyone that doesn't pre-rinse other than myself around here. They all think I"m insane.
Arthur, you're right. It is a PITA. I keep my baskets separate. The big main one, I simply removed the lid all together when I gotmy machine several years ago. The two smaller baskets, I kept the lids on just in case I needed them for small items. the slots work very well for a bunch of kinves that might end up poking through the bortom of the basket without the lids. I find flatware doesn't get as clean in my tough environment with the pieces being put in the little slots.
Arthur, you're right. It is a PITA. I keep my baskets separate. The big main one, I simply removed the lid all together when I gotmy machine several years ago. The two smaller baskets, I kept the lids on just in case I needed them for small items. the slots work very well for a bunch of kinves that might end up poking through the bortom of the basket without the lids. I find flatware doesn't get as clean in my tough environment with the pieces being put in the little slots.
Kenmore 360!
I saw this video and this is supposed to be the TOL series. I personally think this is piss poor performance not to mention something else to break as opposed to a straight arm. Their are also to many pauses also! I am anxious to hear how you guys like this one!
Peter
I saw this video and this is supposed to be the TOL series. I personally think this is piss poor performance not to mention something else to break as opposed to a straight arm. Their are also to many pauses also! I am anxious to hear how you guys like this one!
Peter
I actually think the wash arm is a good innovation, it would get to every area of the machine. That said, I HATE the spray and pause, I think a very stupid design. No wonder a cycle takes 3 hours. Put a decent pump behind the spray arm system , let it run for 20 or 30 minutes and be done with it.
