New oil burner

[perc-o-prince]

Hey there,

2 days, 34 key vents, and $8K later, it's in and working quite well! I have a few questions after the pix, though.

First, the old behemoth from outside the door:

 

[perc-o-prince]

And from the other corner on the same end

 

[perc-o-prince]

behind the opposite end

 

[perc-o-prince]

Spaghetti belongs on a plate, not in a boiler room at the zone valves!

 

[perc-o-prince]

And here's Rich, prepping the mudroom for a baseboard unit to be put in.

 

[perc-o-prince]

Here's Cedric and (what's his name) taking out one of 3 parts of the old guts. HEAVY metal indeed!!!

 

[perc-o-prince]

What you've all been waiting for.....

 

[perc-o-prince]

No more spaghetti...

 

[perc-o-prince]

And it's so nice and clean!

 

[perc-o-prince]

Rich says this is the best news of all!

Remember our spin-tube dishwasher? We had to add a gallon of hot water to each fill because it was a timed fill, and it wasn't getting enough water. NOT ANY MORE! As suspected, the boiler must have had some blockage somewhere, and the spin-tube works on its own with no auxillary filling! And just to push it a little further, Rich tried filling the washer at the same time (hot) and it did it! Before, we got slow-flow in the washer, even if it was the only thing using the hot water!

The questions:

1)The Carlin EZPro starts the draft before the burner fires, and it's loud. Louder than the old burner at full guns before the new burner even fires. Is this normal? It's more of a mid-to-high pitched whine. When the burner fires, it's the familiar low rumble-type noise in addition, and that part's fine. Sounds "normal." We're thinking of insulating the boiler room w/ pank stuff and foam sheets to mitigate noise, but should the draft maker be that loud in the first place?

2) The baseboard that was hooked up in the mudroom isn't filling. When the tech was foostering around in the feed pipe, he found it had been stopped up with some cloth or something. Probably from when the old radiator burst about 20 years ago. Don't know for sure. Anyway, he finished hooking up the baseboard so that he could fill/bleed the system and get us heat and hot water. Left a message with Rich's dad (I wasn't home) that there might be more blockage, or maybe there was a shutoff valve somewhere else? Well, I can't get in to the pipe to check it out, because if I cut the pipe and find the assumed blockage, the system will drain before I can put the pipe back together (there isn't another shutoff). That would be a mess!

I hope I've explained this well. Any ideas (knocking on Toggle's monitor)?

Chuck

 

[petek]

It's so small and so expensive
I'm keeping my old battleship as long as possible. I don't have any automatic zoning on my system. I think there's a total of 5 zones in the maze that heats this house. I just don't know if it would be worthwhile in this house or not because I really don't know much about hydronic heating

 

[toggleswitch]

1)The Carlin EZPro starts the draft before the burner fires, and it's loud. Louder than the old burner at full guns before the new burner even fires. Is this normal? It's more of a mid-to-high pitched whine.

YES, very. Sometimes the boiler/burner can be "tuned" if it resonates excessively.

2) The baseboard that was hooked up in the mudroom isn't filling.

Could just be an air-lock. My parent's had a radiator where the pipes went up to the ceiling then down to a basment level radiator. It took a few years actuallly to get it to work, there was an air-bubble trapped inside at the highest point, yet the air-vent "bleeder" was low on the radiator. Try bleeding the air with the valve on the pipe(nearest the radiator) close ,and again wtth the valve closed.

As always don't over-open the air-bleeder valve in that the screw may come out!

 

[toggleswitch]

Hope this blab helps!

And in case the screw is key. Or should I say a key-vent?

Feel free to contact me off-line if you need/desire any more input.

Enjoy in good health you new money saver!

 

[toggleswitch]

Ah needs to breathe !

oh Chuck, show us the safety on the ceiling that is a peculiarity (as far as I know) to Massachussets. [Their State to our international friends].

It's something I have never seen elsewhere: It is a thermal cut-off that shuts off power to the boiler should the room get too hot. (read: FIRE FIRE FIRE). I doubt it's a rate-of-rise detetctor, but a girl just never knows!

One thing to consider: Please ensure the boiler has a free (unobsructed) fresh-air supply. One option is to have a vent/register/grille that goes into living space. I personally ascribe to the Popular Science magazine recommendation. Have a dryer vent installed. Rip out the flap(which prevetns air-flow "IN" and cover interior of pipe with a spare set of panty-hose. [But nto your good ones]. This prevents bugs and such.

Here is my fresh-air inlet over the boiler.

The green capped thing is the thermostatic mixing valve that tempers the hot water with some cold water to get a resanoable hot for the taps when the system is making steam for heat.

 

[toggleswitch]

My boiler that also produces hot water via a takless coil in its side.

 

[toggleswitch]

I'm ready for my close-up Mr DeMille!

Close up of the RIELLO oil-burner head.

The controls on mine differ than yours in that mine is steam, yours is hot water!

You will note that the Riello burner needs a control relay (left near top in green). The bottom one is for a circulaiton pump (beige/tan color in pic) that sucks hot water (non-potable) from the boier to feed a hot-water heating loop in the basement. This is only possible because they are at the same level (i.e. the boiler and the heating loop with baseboard convectors- "radiators" in the vernacular). Upstairs gets steam only for heat.

 

[toggleswitch]

So if it's not too personal, tell me about your pipes........

One zone is for the indirect-fired hot water heater tank, one for the basement, one for the main level, one for the upper level and the rest.....???

 

[toggleswitch]

Wednesday is Price spaghetti day! Ronzoni suono Buoni.

BTW those zone valves appear to be 24v, (low voltage) which is condsidered to be Class-2 wiring.
Translation: Don't need no conduit, junction boxes or any of the other safety measure one normally sees with line-voltage wiring.
They did a nice job prettying that up!

 

[toggleswitch]

This one is for GadgetGary:

The indirect-fired (heated) hot water tank admits potable( clean) water frm the top and supplies hot water to the taps also from the piping on top.

The bigger pipes on the side admit hot water (non-potable/ dirty) from the boiler to a spiral of coil/pipe within the tank that then comes out the side, but near the top.

So intstead of electric elements within the tank that would be energized (in an electric H-W-H)when hot water needs to be replenished in this type of tank/system, the controls on the tank summmon the controller (green box on boiler) to start a recirculating pump and open a zone valve, which sends hot water from the boiler to heat the clean water in the tank.

.....and never the twain shall meet. The potable (drinkable)and non-potable water never mixes.

This in not the brand the boys have, but works for demonstration purposes.

http://www.burnham.com/PDF/Alliance SL literature 5-07.pdf

 

[toggleswitch]

~close,and again wtth the valve closed.

OPEN, and again with the valve closed.

Dennding on how set, the controller box gives priority to the hot water heater zone over space/room heating zones, should the temp of the water in the boiler fall below a certain temp.

 

[toggleswitch]

Give it a gentle whack with the side of a monkey wrench.....

If there is a separate flo-control valve (normally at the top of the boiler) it may be stuck shut from disuse.

 

[perc-o-prince]

So if it's not too personal, tell me about your pipes...

6 zones, 3 circulators.

Circ 1- indirect tank.
Circ 2- downstairs (all one zone)
Circ 3- the other 5 zones in the house (3 on the main floor and two upstairs)

And the valves are LV. They just wanted to be sure it's all nice and pretty for the inspection.

Yes, we do have a register vent that I installed in the wall of that room.

I'll get a pic of the safety thingy for ya!

Chuck

 

[perc-o-prince]

oh Chuck, show us the safety on the ceiling

Here ya go, Steve

 

[sudsmaster]

Re: Panty hose as bug screen

Why not just use window screening? It probably would be much less likely to clog, and still keep out the vast majority of bugs (unless "no-see-ums" are a problem in your area).

 

[toggleswitch]

How can you tell when a woman in panty-hose farts?
Her ankles swell.

~Why not just use window screening?

Because in an all-male household panty-hose lying about makes Mrs. Kravitz (and her type) have something to talk about.

Actually IMHO. it's easier to work with and a finer mesh.

And if the room happens to become mal-odorous, it's easier to blame the panty-hose! (ducks and runs!)

 

[bobbyderegis]

Hey Rich and Chuck!
It looks like a beauty. I bet the bills will be a lot more beautiful, too. We just had a Boderus boiler put in at work, and the bills were more than cut in half.
Bobby in Boston

 

[tomturbomatic]

WOW! Congratulations. Lotsabucks. This is not a condensing boiler, is it? Now, like Sgt. Shultz, I know nothing, but I have a question about summer water heating. Isn't is very expensive to heat the boiler in the summer for the water heater or is the new system with the tank a more efficient method than having the instantaneous coil? In the summer when you are just heating water, can the boiler run at a lower temperature? Would a heat pump water heater with an electric element for back up cost less to run? Will those pipes get foam insulation sleeves after the inspector's approval?

I have a very simple hydronic system in the glass room addition to my house. The closed system is a 30 gallon direct vent gas water heater underneath in the shop/plant room feeding baseboards above. The water heater fires on its own thermostat. The room thermostat will open the valve and start the circulator pump, but it also convects on gravity with the valve manually locked open so it is the one system I have that is not dependent on electricity should the worst happen. The ceiling fan keeps the air well mixed so the floor is not cold. Keeping that room warm allows me to delay using the forced air gas furnace at the start of the heating season and takes a great load off the furnace when both are in operation.

Toggle, have you ever discussed steam heating with Jon of Melrose and Chatham, MA? He converted from hot water to steam in his Melrose residence.

 

[toggleswitch]

Please allow me to interject my $.02 worth...........

~This is not a condensing boiler, is it?
No. Just a regular one. A condensing boiler would have a smaller exhaust stack (pipe) and sometimes it is made of PVC (plastic).

~Isn't is very expensive to heat the boiler in the summer for the water heater or is the new system with the tank a more efficient method than having the instantaneous coil?

It is less expensive than a separate free standing oil-fired hot water heater as buner heads are a major cost.

Based upon the size of their house and a top-loading washer
this water heating method provides vastly greater hot-water supply for their taps.... and now appparently pressure and flow too!

~In the summer when you are just heating water, can the boiler run at a lower temperature?

YES. But it is probably kept at no more than 120*F- 140*F just for hot water. The zone control valves also fire-up the burner when there is a call for space-heating. The limit on the boiler is then 180*F (i.e. 120*F low-limit; 180*F high-limit).

~Would a heat pump water heater with an electric element for back up cost less to run?

Electicity in the suburbs of Boston is probably just as high-priced as electricty in the suburbs of NYC. Fossil fuels are generally less expensive than electricity in most parts for the northeast US.

This (a heat-pump HWH) will only serve to cool the house and then the heat has to be replaced by the boiler anyway. Not so good in a cold climate. Better in Hawaii or Puerto Rico where year round cooling and dehundifiction is ideal.

~Will those pipes get foam insulation sleeves after the inspector's approval?

Perhaps not. The heating season is 7 to 8 months long so any loss that is not during heating season (4 to 5 month) is only a useful gian in winter. The net gain from the heat-loss is acceptable in a cold climate.

~Toggle, have you ever discussed steam heating with Jon of Melrose and Chatham, MA? He converted from hot water to steam in his Melrose residence.

NOPE.
Interesting- I have heard of steam to hot-water conversion for distribution systems/means but not vicey-versey.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Toggle, Thanks. I was talking about using the heap pump water heater in the summer so that the boiler would not have to be kept in operation, but I guess if heat is needed all but 4 months of the year, alternate types of water heating do not make sense. Interesting boiler temps. I saw hot water systems in Minnesota that run above 212F.