New phonograph toy from Ohio
- Thread starter travis
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That is really NEAT!!Would love to listen to it-reaslly EARLY--High end Hi-Fi!!Like the amp and what looks like a LARGE folded horn speaker!
frontaloadotmy
Well-known member
It certainly is beautiful!!
Is it functional?
Is it functional?
Oh yeah, Travis, that is a beautiful phonograph. It's the one I always wanted, although I wanted a crank version, which was originally called the "Credenza" model. I never found one of them before I decided to sell off all of my 78's along with my model VV-XVI L-door Victrola a couple of years ago.
Once you find out what needs fixing, let me know. I have a friend in this area who does repairs, but probably not on the electronic parts. He could certainly fix the acoustic reproducer if that's required. You may want to check the Antique Radios web site forums for people in your area who can fix the electronic components.
The Orthophonics were supposedly a revolutionary system, and I believe they were rolled out around 1927 at the same time Victor implemented their Orthophonic label records, which were electronically recorded via microphone rather than acoustically into a horn. I love the sound quality of the early Orthophonic recordings, which provide the effect of a large dance hall. Supposedly the "logrithmic" horn design of the Orthophonic phonographs provided the optimum reproduction quality for Victor's Orthophonic recordings. At least that was the hype back in the day.
Enjoy it!
Ralph
Once you find out what needs fixing, let me know. I have a friend in this area who does repairs, but probably not on the electronic parts. He could certainly fix the acoustic reproducer if that's required. You may want to check the Antique Radios web site forums for people in your area who can fix the electronic components.
The Orthophonics were supposedly a revolutionary system, and I believe they were rolled out around 1927 at the same time Victor implemented their Orthophonic label records, which were electronically recorded via microphone rather than acoustically into a horn. I love the sound quality of the early Orthophonic recordings, which provide the effect of a large dance hall. Supposedly the "logrithmic" horn design of the Orthophonic phonographs provided the optimum reproduction quality for Victor's Orthophonic recordings. At least that was the hype back in the day.
Enjoy it!
Ralph
westingman123
Well-known member
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oh Travis,
that is LOVELY.
that is LOVELY.
kevin313
Well-known member
What a beautiful machine! The cabinet looks perfect! This must have been top-of-the-line and state-of-the-art for its day. You have an incredible piece of history there...hope you enjoy many hours of wonderful recordings!
That is beautiful. Well worth a long trip for something like that.
Thanks for the compliments. It's not working yet. I'll send the tone arm off to be rebuilt very soon. In the meantime, I need to replace the wiring to the motor and oil it. I am confident the motor will run fine.
The last issue will be to rebuild the amplifier and make sure the cartridge for that is good. This was a high end model. This came with the instruction/sales brochure. List cost was $650 in 1928.
The last issue will be to rebuild the amplifier and make sure the cartridge for that is good. This was a high end model. This came with the instruction/sales brochure. List cost was $650 in 1928.
cornutt
Well-known member
Wow, check out those old tubes! Especially that mogul-base one on the right (rectifier?). I'd be curious as to whether they have any numbers or markings on them.
washernoob
Well-known member
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- Jul 3, 2010
- Messages
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That is one true beauty you have there!!! WOW!
I have always wanted a real phonograph after spending hours of enjoyment with my great uncles Edison C-250 Disk phonograph. Oh I loved that thing!
Have yet to find a good affordable one. There was a Victrola for $40 here on craigslist (the cabinet style) but didn't work. Thats the cheapest I have ever seen.
This is what my uncles looked like. Almost exactly the same.
I have always wanted a real phonograph after spending hours of enjoyment with my great uncles Edison C-250 Disk phonograph. Oh I loved that thing!
Have yet to find a good affordable one. There was a Victrola for $40 here on craigslist (the cabinet style) but didn't work. Thats the cheapest I have ever seen.
This is what my uncles looked like. Almost exactly the same.
A beautiful machine you found there! I love that early electric sound and the music from that time. Seeing your machine inspires me to get my grandparents 1929 Electrola restored. Right now I just have her tucked in a closet, but when I got it from my grandmother in 1968, it still played just fine and do so up until around 1976.
Very cool - have never seen that before!
Retail adjusted price for today's inflation rate - over 8 thousand dollars.
Very neat Travis. The tubes on the amp are a work of art in themselves!
Ben
Very neat Travis. The tubes on the amp are a work of art in themselves!
Ben
autowasherfreak
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- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 3,637
Beautiful! Best of luck with the restoration.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I too would like an Orthophonic Victrola. That's a beautiful machine.
From what I've read, and the studies seem to be thorough, the big folded exponential horn reproduced lower to mid range tones much better than the typical acoustic reproducer. The catch was that the higher end on the Orthophonics supposedly suffered in comparison. I've seen the graphs and they appear to bear out this analysis.
The reason, apparently, is that while the Orthophonic reproducer was duplicating the highs at the needle end, mostly, the bends in the horn were causing the highs to bounce around internally in the horn and get damped in the process before they could escape into the room. I suppose a similar effect would occur if one were to wire up an electronic amplifier to just a big 12" woofer. The highs would be somewhat lost in the process.
It apparently was also a drawback of the electronic "Klipshorn" loudspeakers of the post-war era. These apparently also featured long folded horns that were great for the bass but not so good for the treble.
From what I've read, and the studies seem to be thorough, the big folded exponential horn reproduced lower to mid range tones much better than the typical acoustic reproducer. The catch was that the higher end on the Orthophonics supposedly suffered in comparison. I've seen the graphs and they appear to bear out this analysis.
The reason, apparently, is that while the Orthophonic reproducer was duplicating the highs at the needle end, mostly, the bends in the horn were causing the highs to bounce around internally in the horn and get damped in the process before they could escape into the room. I suppose a similar effect would occur if one were to wire up an electronic amplifier to just a big 12" woofer. The highs would be somewhat lost in the process.
It apparently was also a drawback of the electronic "Klipshorn" loudspeakers of the post-war era. These apparently also featured long folded horns that were great for the bass but not so good for the treble.
miele_ge
Well-known member
i have that same machine - Model VE 8-60 E
Mine is serial #656 - what is yours? Up until a few weeks ago, it was working perfectly. I think (and hope) a tube blew out and haven't had a chance to check it. It is a nice machine since you can either play it accoustically or electrically (my partner prefers it accoustically) Do you have the black metal cover for the amp and the "stack" that goes over the ballast (large tube at the right of the amp). If not, you will want to find one as that tube gets VERY hot during normal operation. Also, be very careful with the "goose neck" mounting for the electric pick up. -They are made of pot metal and can be quite fragile and often are broken and/or missing on these machines.
I have a copy of the owner's manual I can scan and send to you if you like. Just let me know.
Congratualtions on your new find. I think the Credenza models (there were both 2 and 4 door configurations) are among the most beautiful Orthoponics.
Will post a few photos in a bit.
Mine is serial #656 - what is yours? Up until a few weeks ago, it was working perfectly. I think (and hope) a tube blew out and haven't had a chance to check it. It is a nice machine since you can either play it accoustically or electrically (my partner prefers it accoustically) Do you have the black metal cover for the amp and the "stack" that goes over the ballast (large tube at the right of the amp). If not, you will want to find one as that tube gets VERY hot during normal operation. Also, be very careful with the "goose neck" mounting for the electric pick up. -They are made of pot metal and can be quite fragile and often are broken and/or missing on these machines.
I have a copy of the owner's manual I can scan and send to you if you like. Just let me know.
Congratualtions on your new find. I think the Credenza models (there were both 2 and 4 door configurations) are among the most beautiful Orthoponics.
Will post a few photos in a bit.
miele_ge
Well-known member
well the 8-60 is not working... but the VE 10-70 E is
Travis, you inspired me to get off my butt and play some records and take some photos. These are of the Automatic Electrola model Ten-Seventy. Introduced in October of 1927, it featured the new Victor automatic record changing mechanism along with electric reproduction of sound and a 6 inch cone speaker. It retailed for $1,100.
This machine was a basket case when I got it - needed some cabinet repairs, but not a full refinish and the changer and electronics needed to be completly gone over. It was a long process, but it was worth it. It's one of my favoite machines to sit and listen to.
Travis, you inspired me to get off my butt and play some records and take some photos. These are of the Automatic Electrola model Ten-Seventy. Introduced in October of 1927, it featured the new Victor automatic record changing mechanism along with electric reproduction of sound and a 6 inch cone speaker. It retailed for $1,100.
This machine was a basket case when I got it - needed some cabinet repairs, but not a full refinish and the changer and electronics needed to be completly gone over. It was a long process, but it was worth it. It's one of my favoite machines to sit and listen to.
Thanks for the compliments
I don't remember the serial number off hand. I think 2847. I don't have any covers for the amplifier. I plan to send the tone arm to be restored in the next couple weeks. After the new year, I'll have time to replace the wiring to the motor.
This came with a shoebox of new steel needles. What should I use as a needle for the electric pickup? Or the acoustic? I am very excited to get to this once the tone arm has the work done.
I don't remember the serial number off hand. I think 2847. I don't have any covers for the amplifier. I plan to send the tone arm to be restored in the next couple weeks. After the new year, I'll have time to replace the wiring to the motor.
This came with a shoebox of new steel needles. What should I use as a needle for the electric pickup? Or the acoustic? I am very excited to get to this once the tone arm has the work done.
miele_ge
Well-known member
here is some video of the record changer in operation
Pardon the video quality - this is my first attempt at this. But it gives you an idea of how it works.
Pardon the video quality - this is my first attempt at this. But it gives you an idea of how it works.
miele_ge
Well-known member
I usually use steel needles with no trouble.
Just make sure the ones you have are really "new" and have never been used. If a used needle is removed and reinserted into either of the pickups it will cause record damage. I usually use newly made steel needles or ones that are still sealed rather than take a chance on damaging a favorite record.
You will want to find a cover for the amp and especially a ventilator stack for the ballast tube before using it. I can ask around for you.
Who is doing the tone arm restoration for you if you don't mind me asking?
Alan
Just make sure the ones you have are really "new" and have never been used. If a used needle is removed and reinserted into either of the pickups it will cause record damage. I usually use newly made steel needles or ones that are still sealed rather than take a chance on damaging a favorite record.
You will want to find a cover for the amp and especially a ventilator stack for the ballast tube before using it. I can ask around for you.
Who is doing the tone arm restoration for you if you don't mind me asking?
Alan
miele_ge
Well-known member
I dont't know of Shenandoah restorations...
The back bracket is a very easy repair - I did it myself on mine and I am not what anyone would call handy with tools. The arm itself is brass with a very thin gold wash on it. Unless it is badly worn, I would just gently clean it with mild soap and water. I had one machine that I bought on ebay - somewhere between the time the photos were taken and I got the machine, they decided to polish the arm and in the process removed all the gold - it is shinny but not the right color at all! Eventually, I want to find a donor machine to get another one. Rebuilding the reproduceris a bit tricky - especially if it is one of the older ones made out of pot metal. Whenever I get a new machine, I always like to do as little as possible with it to keep it as original as possible.
You should be able to get the machine playing accoustically with very little effort. Do you have the book "Look for the Dog?" It is a great reference for all the Victor products and even has repair notes that were used by the service techs of the day to explain how to repair/maintain the motors, reproducers (sound box), etc.
Best of luck with your machine. It is a very rare example - less than 3,500 of this model were made as opposed to ~90,000 of the other "Credenza" models. I only know of 5 or 6 of them left in existance.
Please try to keep it as authentic as possible.
Regards,
Alan
The back bracket is a very easy repair - I did it myself on mine and I am not what anyone would call handy with tools. The arm itself is brass with a very thin gold wash on it. Unless it is badly worn, I would just gently clean it with mild soap and water. I had one machine that I bought on ebay - somewhere between the time the photos were taken and I got the machine, they decided to polish the arm and in the process removed all the gold - it is shinny but not the right color at all! Eventually, I want to find a donor machine to get another one. Rebuilding the reproduceris a bit tricky - especially if it is one of the older ones made out of pot metal. Whenever I get a new machine, I always like to do as little as possible with it to keep it as original as possible.
You should be able to get the machine playing accoustically with very little effort. Do you have the book "Look for the Dog?" It is a great reference for all the Victor products and even has repair notes that were used by the service techs of the day to explain how to repair/maintain the motors, reproducers (sound box), etc.
Best of luck with your machine. It is a very rare example - less than 3,500 of this model were made as opposed to ~90,000 of the other "Credenza" models. I only know of 5 or 6 of them left in existance.
Please try to keep it as authentic as possible.
Regards,
Alan
miele_ge
Well-known member
Here is a photo of the amp/power supply with the cover on it
There is also a safty interlock which prevents line current from going to the machine, unless the door covering the terminal strip is closed and latched as I *think* there are some hefty voltages there that could be dangerous.
There is also a safty interlock which prevents line current from going to the machine, unless the door covering the terminal strip is closed and latched as I *think* there are some hefty voltages there that could be dangerous.
Nope, I don't have that cover.
My tone arm bracket was repaired with an ugly bolt years ago. I have a gold pot metal reproducer that's cracking. I had planned to replace the already broken tone arm bracket with a reproduction. The tone arm was either going to be cleaned or replated.
If you hear of anyone with an amplifier cover let me know. I didn't realize that I was missing something.
My tone arm bracket was repaired with an ugly bolt years ago. I have a gold pot metal reproducer that's cracking. I had planned to replace the already broken tone arm bracket with a reproduction. The tone arm was either going to be cleaned or replated.
If you hear of anyone with an amplifier cover let me know. I didn't realize that I was missing something.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I have a tabletop Victrola VV-X. Nothing special, although the cabinet is solid oak, not the more common (I think) mahogany veneer.
In any case, last year the neighborhood had a blackout. They aren't that common here, but it lasted for a few hours. I was kind of pleased to give the VV a few cranks and put on some old 78's, making music to break the eerie silence.
Kind of like living off the grid, albeit for just a few hours.
In any case, last year the neighborhood had a blackout. They aren't that common here, but it lasted for a few hours. I was kind of pleased to give the VV a few cranks and put on some old 78's, making music to break the eerie silence.
Kind of like living off the grid, albeit for just a few hours.
frontaloadotmy
Well-known member
Alan
Your VE 10 - 70 E is quite fabulous too.
I had no idea that there was such a fancy home
record player of that time. Amazing that it changes records
automatically.
Your VE 10 - 70 E is quite fabulous too.
I had no idea that there was such a fancy home
record player of that time. Amazing that it changes records
automatically.
Oh yeah, Rich. When the power would go out, I'd crank up the Victrola for the same reason as you. If I had a Credenza model that could sit snugly up against a wall I'd likely still own a crank phonograph, but the classic floor model Victrolas with bonnet tops take up a lot of space to allow room for the lid to be fully opened, and I didn't use my VV-XVI enough anymore.
As far as needles are concerned, I would think finding a stash of multi-use "Tungs-Tone" ones would be a great way to go, if they are compatible with Orthophonic models.
As far as needles are concerned, I would think finding a stash of multi-use "Tungs-Tone" ones would be a great way to go, if they are compatible with Orthophonic models.
Klipsch speaker-Paul Klipsch belived strongly in horn speakers-the 3 way corner hon systems-still made today-use a 3Way horn system-the "folded" horn is for the LF-hence the corner placement of these speaker stems-the triangular cabinet-the LF radiates from the back of the enclosure.the mid range and tweeter horns sit on top of the LF enclosure-these systems are a JOY to listen to esp when driven by a TUBE amp.A freind of my Moms had a pair of these driven by Dynaco St70 and a PAS3 preamp.The system had a Thorens TT.Was listening to this for a few hrs and in sound bliss!Would love such a unit today-Anything you played thru these speakers was reproduced with unbeleivable realism.A pair of those K-Horn speakers go for $6000-12K today.It is said many of these are imported from the US to Asia.They are still built in the Klipsch factory in Hope,Arkansas.
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