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Leave be clear about something.

This quat product by Lysol similar to others is a "sanitizer", not a disinfectant. The two are totally different both in performance (germ, fungus, etc...) ability and other areas.

Very broadly and basically sanitizers will get one to the last mile in reducing "germs". That is after something has been cleaned and or gross filth, organic matter, or whatever has been largely removed and "germ" levels reduced, sanitizers will take things down a notch further.

Quat based sanitizers are highly affected by organic soil matter. This is why they are used *after* something has been cleaned. Thus putting this Lysol or whatever sanitizer in pre-wash, wash or anything else but final rinse is pointless. You might as well just pour the bottle down drain.

Even laundries that process healthcare or whatever *contaminated* linens do not subject them to hot water and or any sort of disinfection first. Rather that process happens (thermal and or chemical) one or several cycles later after flushing, pre-washing and even one or more wash cycles. This would have reduced soil, gross filth and by extension flushed down the drain large number of "germs". Those remaining can be now dealt with by whatever means.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quaternary-ammonium-compounds
 
Smell/scent

Is indeed very subjective and I suppose what makes us all different. I do like some of the scents available, but you’re right, some of them are damn evil.

Lenor have just released (is it the 8th, maybe more now?) unstoppables scent called “Sun Kiss”, I went to go and buy some, geez it was AWFUL, I stood there in the store squeezing the life out of the bottle and sniffing like the proverbial addict to make sure and no it was awful (only way I can describe it is cat wee mixed with sun cream and mixed with citrus). So for the first time ever, I put a new scented unstoppables back on the shelf.

The Lenor parfum des secrets softener I actually like, but it gives me headache, so that’s out now too.

In the last few years I don’t know what on Earth they’ve done to Bold, they all have an undertone of wee.. I’m trying desperately to like it, but it’s not the same as it was.

Persil IMO is the most strongly scented detergent on the U.K./IE market, and after MANY years of not being 100% sure (due to ever constantly using different detergents) I’ve come to the conclusion I’m really “allergic” to the stuff, I itch like CRAZY around that stuff (even down to the point of just being around clothes hung up air drying that have been washed in Persil).

Laundress, from what IEJ said, yes the dos system bottles are refillable with any liquids of your choice (which I think is very good, so you’re not tied (is that a pun lol) to one detergent). Yeah would suppose US could very easily get the bottles shipped over (would even say do Miele not sell empty ones for shipping? The shipping weight must be next to nothing)
 
Strange...

Considering they sell the actual detergents there.

Only thing can think of is that they wouldn’t want to risk someone putting a non he detergent in it (do they even exist now?) and be subject to a lawsuit.

Yes granted someone could do that in the ones that come with detergent, via refilling, but then suppose Miele could cite that they don’t recommend refilling the cartridges sold in the US.

It’s really clutching at straws, but it’s the only thing I can think of.

Of course, as I and U.K./EU members have offered in the past, if any one in the US requires Miele spares to be bought and shipped on, more than happy to.
 
The Miele cartridges they're selling in the USA look different, although it could simply be a redesigned bottle or they may be contracting the manufacturing to another company to avoid bulk shipping of cheap products.

It would be interesting to see if they're a different shape to specifically lock people into the system.

I think the other aspect in Europe is they might end up with a PR disaster if they did that.

Over here Miele are just a high end brand. They're expensive but they're not some kind of ultra exclusive, uber-special brand. Think more like Maytag of old or SpeedQueen. They're top of the brand tree but they're making steam.

Their vacuums are also increasing very dominant in the market and they own a big chunk of the dishwashing business.

Whereas, the impression I get in the US is they're very niche and very high end, even if they're more or less identical machines. They might get away more with selling special exclusive detergent in the states than they would in their home market.

Also auto dose machines aren't that unusual anymore and other brands, notably Bosch / Siemens just use any liquid detergent so, it's definitely something that would have caused a PR and marketing issue in Europe it were any kind of attempt to lock people into consumables.

Their detergent pod dose system in my opinion is a disgraceful waste of plastic. They've these over sized Espresso like pods that are placed into the fabric softener slot in the drawer and you close the lid, puncturing the top very much like a Nespresso pod.

The machine then fills through nozzles into those punctures and also breaks open a sealed plaeoc syphon in the pod.

There's a staggering amount of plastic in them for a single wash!
 
Since North American Owners Of W1 Washers

Already can use any sort of detergent they wish via dispenser drawer, there are only a handful of possible reasons not to allow refillable canisters.

One is the obvious, to lock persons into spending $18/ea. USD for a new detergent or bleach cartridge.

The other is Miele simply doesn't want to risk their precious dispenser system to the vast and bewildering array of products on USA detergent market. Sort of far fetched but there you are then.

Would be interesting to see if anyone from USA does get their mitts on the refillable canisters from Europe, and found they did not fit or work with the USA machine. That would be telling in of itself.

Suppose only way to find out is contacting Miele USA and asking.
 
There's a bewilderingly array of products on the European shelves too, and they vary by country to add even more confusion.

Miele has had autodose systems before, including a quite complex system for dispensing powders.

I think it's basically down to the fact they'd be torn apart by the consumer magazines in Germany and elsewhere. They're hugely sceptical about the Twindose system from a cost point of view and I think a lock in would tarnish the brand.

Also TwinDos were a failure, they risk having to continue to supply detergents as spares decades to come.

I would suspect the US division is simply less worried about ensuring they're not locking customers in. It made a lot of money over the years out of selling specialist detergents in a way Miele hasn't been quite as pushy in Europe.
 
Yes, but however

One is more than unusually certain laundry detergents in Europe have long by now sorted the "HE" aspect of things.

Meanwhile here in USA things can be rather uneven.

Did a small load of dress shirts the other day in Miele using barely 15ml of Cheer "stay colourful" liquid. Can you say froth?

After four rinses and before final added some defoamer to kick things down so could get on with things.

Have still not figured out how detergents here can say "HE" but show both huge top and front loading washing machines.

Is one to believe both machines use equal amounts of water for washing?
 
Well, yeah that's one difference.

The only time I've encountered a major problem with foam was with a US produced eco detergent that I can't remember the name of. It was definitely just imported directly by a health food store and I tired it out of curiosity for some reason. They just had a clear label with some importers name added to the big jug of detergent.

As soon as the machine got a few minutes into the cycle there was foam spewing out of the drawer of the machine onto the floor!!!

I had to add fabric softener to the wash premixed with several litres of water in a mop bucket, poured through the drawer to calm it down and then force several rinses manually with more fabric softener and then redo the entire wash with normal detergent.

The product was as high foaming as dish soap.

The are plenty of good eco detergents on the market here that work very well. I've never seen they one again (unsurprisingly).

There are probably still a few automatic top loader agitator machines around in Ireland. They were a niche market but, some people clearly bought them and you'd have seen one or two models on the floor of most major electrical retailers until a few years ago and Hotpoint used to do a version of the filter flow that was "Europeanised" for residential use. As far as I'm aware that disappeared in the late 1990s.

Larger capacity front loaders caused the niche to disappear and also their energy ratings and wash performance ratings were rather poor and carried on the label as per EU norms. The spin speed also maxed out at 800 which is something that European machines are very competitively marketed on - you'd be fairly surprised to see anything slower than 1200 these days with better machines usually being 1600.

TLs used to crop up in light commercial use - mostly Maytags and Speedqueens but it's all light commercial front loaders now, Miele and Electrolux being the main contenders.

Those top loader machines would have largely been used with normal European style front loader detergents. High foaming stuff has been rare for more than 40 years at this stage.

Back in the day, they used to suffix the brand with "automatic" to imply low foaming.

Persil Automatic
Ariel Automatic
Bold Automatic
Surf Automatic
Daz Automatic

That branding carried into the 80s even though non automatic versions were fairly hard to find.
 
Yes agree...

Beside the obvious eBay, Gumtree where they’re available frequently for reasonable prices; US TL are a very very niche market (and even the European HAxis TL machines aren’t that often seen here in UK, tends to be more mainland EU) and if buying new here a US TL is eye wateringly expensive (usually no lower than £1000 before VAT),

So if you own one (like I used to) you’d take up shares in P&G, and up your dose if you weren’t happy with your results (I always did ok as I have extremely soft water).

The only 2 detergents on the U.K. mass market that are “non-HE” (of course a term we have never used here) is

Persil Handwash, or;

Daz Handwash and Twintub.

The only other one we used to have was Fairy Snow, this went years ago (probably around 15 years ago now).

These 2 detergents can be used of course for handwashing or in a high water use machine (as could Fairy Snow).

IIRC they’re both only available in a 10 wash box (that may have gone to 9 now due to shrinkflation) and are about £2.50.

These 3 detergents are probably the only ones I have NEVER bought as I hate handwashing laundry (or dishes) and even on the one time every 20 years I do, I use regular detergent or a silk/wool detergent (both the Persil and Daz Handwash/TT detergents are biological and contain oxygen bleach so are no good for delicicates (the only 1 time I could see handwashing being required and even then not so much due to advancement of machines that can handle almost any fabric. Clothes that I would be truly truly gutted to ruin go to the cleaners).

Fairy Snow was of course enzyme free “non biological” but if I recall still had oxygen bleach.
 
Just

Had look and out of the supermarkets, only Tesco carry the Daz one (Wilko has it too, but they have everything)

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesc...ndwash_and_twin_tub_powder_9_washes_960g.html

According to mysupermarket website, no one has the Persil one. But both Sainsbury’s and Asda have it on their own online grocery sites

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesc...ndwash_and_twin_tub_powder_9_washes_960g.html

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/persil-handwash-powder-790g

https://groceries.asda.com/product/...wash-washing-powder-bio-8-washes/910002524509
 
Haha....

How could I forget, it’s by far and away my most favourite detergent (as in brand),. But upon reading that 1 and only review on the Sainsbury’s website for the Persil Handwash I have forgetten we did indeed have 1 other one (that’s obviously long gone)

ARIEL Handwash!!!!
 
HAbd wash andvtwin tub

I’ve recently turned 34 (shocking) and even I recall every supermarket own label having a twin tub powder until the very late 90s at least.

Branded powders in TT and HW formula were also made by:

Surf - I’ve an empty box circa 2006 in lemon fresh.
Daz
Persil
Ariel
Fairy
Plus there was a few off beat brands such as All Brite, Q-Matic etc.

Bold and Radion never did TT HW versions though.
 
So quite a

Few different ones then.

I was thinking surely the supermarkets had them, but I can’t recall any particular ones as I wouldn’t have looked for them, and of course the supermarkets have themselves changed eg Safeway, Somerfield and Kwik Save all gone, and even though I’m not far behind you at all, I still remember when Tesco was just a pure Food store that were the size of what Aldi stores are now and my local Asda was a Gateway. So back at a time when they would have been about, I just wouldn’t have noticed.

Bold not having one does make sense as when that launched that was marketed as *the* Automatic Powder at a time Ariel was still for twin tubs.

I remember reading an article in a book “biggest brand failures” about Radion, saying the reason why it only survived 10 yrs as a brand was because it just didn’t position itself properly and going on to say that people weren’t sure why they should buy it, it wasn’t the cheapest, but it wasn’t the best and it really didn’t do anything that (the cheaper) Surf did,

Sure miss the smell though, I used it for a while when it was reboxed under the Surf “Sun Fresh” scent after Radion went in 99.
 
Radion

When it first came out was actually positioned higher than persil.

It contained couple of extra ingredients aimed at odour removal and freshness.

Levers Persil was marketed as a family product - think Mumsy, Persil only washed whiter. It did combat some stains but it was still a family safe powder for all temperatures. Yet Ariel was always very scientific especially with its odour removal claims and biological formula in cool washes.

Lever couldn’t afford to ditch persils mumsy market but it had failed in the scientific biological area with the new system flop. So the reason Radion was born was to tap into the biological science market and compete with Ariel.

Radions formula for the first few years was top notch, think Persil on steroids. The reason it flopped was that it never quite took hold of Ariels market so one assumes it was too costly to make mass produced top notch detergent when Persil dominated Levers corner there.

It was dropped to the same formula as Surf and given the sun fresh scent and it carried in as a discount brand until it was deemed viable to merge it into Surf
 
Interesting...

Thanks.

Suppose that’s the issue when large swathes of people are loyal to their brand.

Persil as you will already know, was and is UKs best selling detergent, what I find interesting though is that Persil non bio sells more than the bio (not really close, but closer to almost double the amount),, of course as it’s counted as one brand it’s the best selling.

However, going off figures of just Biological detergents, Ariel is actually best selling (I can’t find the exact figures, I’m sure it was in a thread on here from about 2 year ago), Ariel sells something around 4.something million of their bio (of course their only one now) compared to Persil bio at about 2.8ish. million.

Wondered how this differed when Ariel had their non bio?, but I believe best selling is a title Persil has never lost. AFAIK the figures group in any scent variants, colour care versions etc.

But back to Radion/ Surf, I used to love the Sun Fresh scent, I did like the other 2 as well. I’d much rather they go back to Sun, Cotton, and the Lemon Fresh variants vs the ones they have now with all the flower themes. I almost never (if ever) buy Surf, it’s just not a detergent I use anymore. On the few times I’ve bought it, it has been gifted away either prior to use, or after using it once or twice.

But then, I’d rather Bold went back to their Spring, Summer and Active Fresh ranges too.. what’s with all the flowers now? What does yellow poppy or golden orchard or sparkling bloom smell like exactly?

I mainly use Ariel or Daz now, but the one that has had the most consistent scent throughout (I also use it) is Fairy.
 
Saying that

I do love the scent of the Persil range, it is and for as far as my memory goes back, without a doubt the strongest smelling detergent on the market and a very clean smell, but it seems I can’t use it, I itch like crazy :(

There must be a component in it that my skin just doesn’t like (I wouldn’t really say I’m allergic as I don’t get hives or a rash like I do with cats; or dogs which I do own, so yes I eat Benadryl like candy) I just ITCH like a madman.

It can’t be enzymes, as I’m fine with others, and I don’t really go for enzyme allergy as a thing, considering they are a natural organism even in our saliva.

After extensive trawling through their ingredient websites of both PG And Unliver, the only thing that stands out is that Unilever use and almost advertise (as in they write it on the box under perfume ingredients) in abundance, is the chemical Butylphenol Methylpropinol (lily of the valley scent). Unilever use this a LOT apparently, in their softeners too. PG on the other hand, I couldn’t find this in any of their products,

I’m not saying that they’re not both packed to the 9s with some probably not so great chemicals, it’s just this is the one that seems to stick out, nothing scientific.

But luckily I’m very happy with the scent of Ariel too, and in recent times they have MASSIVELY nailed down the clean rinsing of detergents (something Unilever always won on), in fact with their latest reformulation of Ariel (can’t say for the others), I suspect they’ve snuck the “HE Turbo” technology in to them (something of course PG deny all knowledge of on this side of the pond).

I even did a test, washed just one tshirt with an Ariel pod (something unimaginable in the past) and the suds collapsed VERY quickly in the wash and after the wash, put the tshirt in to a sink full of fresh water (even made sure to make sure the sink was throughly rinsed too first) and not so much as one bubble.

Suppose this serves PGs best interest though as they’re neck breaking to get people from liquids and gels to pods, and if you notice in the “do the pod” campaign of adverts they drop not so subtle hints, showing people using them to wash 1 item of clothing.
 
I tried a different combination of Miele Ultraphase 1 + 2 and Ecover fabric softener. Problem solved!
I think the reformulated concentrated Comfort Pure and the Miele detergent didn't work together for my nose.

I've also tried using it without softener and the clothes were very soft anyway.

The Miele stuff isn't that expensive - similar price or slightly cheaper than Ariel and lasts ages.
It's a 6 enzyme formula in a colour detergent. I find the it seems to do a better job on jeans than any of the mainstream liquids and doesn't contain OBAs and that's boosted with a shot of peroxide and optical brightening agents if you select the whites option.
 
Sensitive UltraPhase

A scent free detergent for colors! Now that's for me!

Have never quite understood why there are few to nil offerings across the EU of TOL scent/dye free laundry detergents.

Persil "sensitive" at one time was scent free (but has OBAs and bleaching agents), until some fool decided the thing was better off with scent.

Persil gel for colors (German Henkel) simply leaves too powerful a scent; it clashes with Ma Griffe.
 
Have never quite understood why there are few to nil offerin

Apparently, there just isn’t enough of a demand for them?. With the Surf website even going as far to say that detergent formulas don’t smell nice at all, hence the added scent.

There are one or two though (eg OMO (in Spain/Portugal I think) does a bio “sensitive” scent free)

We also have always had a scent free product line called Surcare, consisting of powder or liquid detergent, fabric softener and dish liquid. But this is non bio (enzyme free).

However, a couple of years back, “Neutral” was launched on the U.K. market (I think it was a Denmark thing first), it’s made by Unilever, it has a detergent for whites, a detergent for colours (either powder, liquid or pod) and they’re ALL biological. They also have fabric softener and a dish liquid, of course, but the best bit, they have a WHOLE range of personal care products too - soaps, wipes, body lotion etc.

It was initially only available online, but for the past year or so has been available at Sainsbury’s supermarkets (but ONLY Sainsbury’s) the whole range isn’t on there, but there is still a fair amount

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/g...ERS&searchTerm=&beginIndex=0&hideFilters=true
 
No Worries

Wasn't seriously going to order Neutral anyway. Tide Free and Gentle and or Tide Coldwater Free are good enough for 99.9% of my unscented/dye free needs.

For colors have commercial laundry powder from Germany, and then there is always Persil Gel.

If Miele has UltraPhase in an unscented/dye free version it is bound to reach this side of pond sooner or later now that the W1 with TwinDos is being sold.
 
Neutral is a great detergent, I used it all the time in Sweden (whites, colours powder) I used to add softener to bedding but my clothes was kept scent free (wanted my perfume to do that part)
 
Does anyone know which powder detergents get the best score in 'Which?' lately?

Lidl's 'Formil' did have the Which? Best Buy a couple of years ago, but seems to have lost it lately. I'm not entirely sure if other manufacturers have upped their game, or whether Which? has shifted their testing goalposts.

Foam-fest: I tried in the past year, the Unilever Surf Liquid in the white bottle. A tiny amount created foam right up the door glass. Not a success, and neither was the fragrance.
 

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