New! Speed Queen v. LG: nagging questions
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Wear and tear
I washed my jeans for nearly five years in a 1960's Miele in Germany and they lasted with no noticeable wear to the end.
I've washed my jeans in a '58 Thumper (in Pank!) for six years now and they show no noticeable wear.
Vectors aside, this whole discussion is pointless. Good clothing wears just as well in a vintage TL (except a Shredmore) as in a FL.
I washed my jeans for nearly five years in a 1960's Miele in Germany and they lasted with no noticeable wear to the end.
I've washed my jeans in a '58 Thumper (in Pank!) for six years now and they show no noticeable wear.
Vectors aside, this whole discussion is pointless. Good clothing wears just as well in a vintage TL (except a Shredmore) as in a FL.
Lint
While ferreting out cheap clothes a TL probably can't help breaking some small fibers in good clothes. That would explain the observation that clothes washed in an FL leave less lint on the dryer screen.
While ferreting out cheap clothes a TL probably can't help breaking some small fibers in good clothes. That would explain the observation that clothes washed in an FL leave less lint on the dryer screen.
I don't doubt
There is some minimal distinction. Just, it's too small to matter.
That there's a distinction to be made is clear - Frigidaire made it in their ads for Thumpers! decades ago.
The real question we need to ask is this: Why do Americans put up with HE TL shit when there are two really good options out there?
Option A: Stop pretending that water used for home laundry is hard to recycle. It's not.
Option B: The least expensive European FL with on-board heating can wash rings around any TOL FL HE piece of shit sold in the US. Buy one.
The whole TL HE nonsense is an attempt to square a circle. It can't be done. The only way to get clothes really clean (and gently) with little water, energy and minimal use of non-biodegradable chemicals is in a FL or a TL with solid-tub.
American consumers need to accept this or stop bitching about dirty clothes which don't come clean.
There is some minimal distinction. Just, it's too small to matter.
That there's a distinction to be made is clear - Frigidaire made it in their ads for Thumpers! decades ago.
The real question we need to ask is this: Why do Americans put up with HE TL shit when there are two really good options out there?
Option A: Stop pretending that water used for home laundry is hard to recycle. It's not.
Option B: The least expensive European FL with on-board heating can wash rings around any TOL FL HE piece of shit sold in the US. Buy one.
The whole TL HE nonsense is an attempt to square a circle. It can't be done. The only way to get clothes really clean (and gently) with little water, energy and minimal use of non-biodegradable chemicals is in a FL or a TL with solid-tub.
American consumers need to accept this or stop bitching about dirty clothes which don't come clean.
vacerator
Well-known member
Say yes
to America, Canada, and yes to Speed Queen! Union owned! Yes, by a Montreal teachers union! Union Yes! Keep high standard incomes and living alive in the great US of A, and Canada!
to America, Canada, and yes to Speed Queen! Union owned! Yes, by a Montreal teachers union! Union Yes! Keep high standard incomes and living alive in the great US of A, and Canada!
It's indeed amazing how the American consumer gets those HE toploaders pushed down the throat while there are really good alternatives. I'm still flabbergasted that Whirlpool never brought an H-axis toploader on the market, while they have a patent for that design. Frontloader performance and toploader convenience.
I always assumed that's why
Whirlpool bought Bauknecht - so they could have the outstanding Philips H-Axis system for a Top Loader.
Part of the problem is that America is technologically so far behind the rest of the western world on so much it's scary.
Part of the problem is a rah-rah 'patriotism' in the US which makes it hard to introduce better technologies.
Part of the problem is one which is even worse in Germany - the anti-phosphate bullshit.
Whirlpool bought Bauknecht - so they could have the outstanding Philips H-Axis system for a Top Loader.
Part of the problem is that America is technologically so far behind the rest of the western world on so much it's scary.
Part of the problem is a rah-rah 'patriotism' in the US which makes it hard to introduce better technologies.
Part of the problem is one which is even worse in Germany - the anti-phosphate bullshit.
Actually I'm not sure about the Whirlpool/Philips/Bauknecht take over. I don't think they still had a runnning patent related to the H-axis technology. But perhaps there was something about that I don't know. AFAIK Whirlpool bought Philips/Bauknecht to get a substantial market share in Europe.
Louis,
They definitely wanted market share. I did some translation work for them and know the U.S. People were aware of the non-logic H-Axis systems and we're interested in them. What they made of it, obviously nothing.
Pity, really.
They definitely wanted market share. I did some translation work for them and know the U.S. People were aware of the non-logic H-Axis systems and we're interested in them. What they made of it, obviously nothing.
Pity, really.
A pity indeed. Whirlpool's patent for the American market was filed in 1994, so I guess it's no longer valid. Other manufacturers could jump on that hole in the market now. There is ofcourse a Staber, but that is a bit of an awkward machine and there have been too many problems with them. It would help if a major brand would bring an H-axis toploader on the market.
Can you get a comforter into an H-axis toploader?
Comforter
When it concerns a European toploader, they have a capacity about the same (or a bit less) as a European frontloader. It also depends on the size and the thickness of the comforter I guess.
As for the Staber, I don't know. Other American H-axis toploaders don't exist.
When it concerns a European toploader, they have a capacity about the same (or a bit less) as a European frontloader. It also depends on the size and the thickness of the comforter I guess.
As for the Staber, I don't know. Other American H-axis toploaders don't exist.
I was thinking it might be hard to get a comforter into the opening.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Panthera, your list above (e.g., rah rah patriotism) seems quite reasonable.
Add to it a couple of other factors:
-American mentality that has increasingly become about buy the cheapest thing possible.
-Many American manufacturers apparently often don't want to release good products (either by considering new technology or plain old build quality) because its so much more profitable to make a piece of junk. (Detroit auto industry of years back being an excellent example of this.)
Add to it a couple of other factors:
-American mentality that has increasingly become about buy the cheapest thing possible.
-Many American manufacturers apparently often don't want to release good products (either by considering new technology or plain old build quality) because its so much more profitable to make a piece of junk. (Detroit auto industry of years back being an excellent example of this.)
The Staber has a rather small opening indeed. In comparison European toploaders have a relative big opening in regard to the capacity. Here are a few pictures of an AEG toploader.
Staber buys in
Quite a lot of their parts. This is an added layer of expense (FSP parts cost so much it's frequently much cheaper to buy a new machine) so I imagine some of their systems are compromises.
Pity - the only one I've ever actually seen in person was a bit older but looked good.
Does anyone know with which model they switched to one bearing for the drum? Even Miele, who pioneered laser controlled bearing placement eventually gave up on the two-bearing H-Axis system. I suspect this was a big source of wear and tear on earlier Stabors.
Quite a lot of their parts. This is an added layer of expense (FSP parts cost so much it's frequently much cheaper to buy a new machine) so I imagine some of their systems are compromises.
Pity - the only one I've ever actually seen in person was a bit older but looked good.
Does anyone know with which model they switched to one bearing for the drum? Even Miele, who pioneered laser controlled bearing placement eventually gave up on the two-bearing H-Axis system. I suspect this was a big source of wear and tear on earlier Stabors.
Miele has indeed changed to the bearings on one side with their toploaders. But all other manufacturers (as far as I know them) have been using bearings on both sides. I have had several toploaders and have never had a bearings problem with them. AFAIK there are not excessive problems with toploaders with bearings on both sides.
Current Euro top loaders are rated up to 7 kg. They haven`t changed in size, they still fit into tight spaces, so I have my doubts about increased drum volumes. Guess most of the larger ratings are only accomplished by overloading coupled with endless wash times.
On Euro top loaders at least the older ones I know of, you could not leave the door ajar, which made them even more prone to stink and mold than any FL.
I wonder if that has changed by now ?
On Euro top loaders at least the older ones I know of, you could not leave the door ajar, which made them even more prone to stink and mold than any FL.
I wonder if that has changed by now ?
One importer brought a Euro top loader, labeled Brandt, to Australia some years ago. It was a compact machine that cost well above a thousand dollars. The price alone made this appliance unattractive to consumers. By cost and features this washer really only appealed to a niche market. The importer went bust some years ago and no such product has been available in Australia since (that I know of). Generally, people who look for top loaders are familiar and comfortable with what is on offer and, unless they specifically want a front loader, they wouldn't be interested in buying a European top loader.
Eons ago my next door neighbor had a top loading washer/dryer. I think it may have been a Bauknecht. It was kept in their bathroom and left open to air out after use. In them days nobody ever complained of smelly washers or dishwashers. That is a relatively recent development that's come with 'progress' and modernity.[this post was last edited: 5/24/2016-04:27]
Eons ago my next door neighbor had a top loading washer/dryer. I think it may have been a Bauknecht. It was kept in their bathroom and left open to air out after use. In them days nobody ever complained of smelly washers or dishwashers. That is a relatively recent development that's come with 'progress' and modernity.[this post was last edited: 5/24/2016-04:27]
The Brandt H-axis toploader was imported by Kleenmaid and was sold under that name too. It was rather expensive indeed, but overhere Brandt sells for an average price. Not only do they have toploader washing machines, but also washer/dryer combos. The washing machines are 40cm wide, the combo's 45cm.
All H-axis toploaders can be left open (with the lid up) to dry out, I never have seen one that needed to be closed after use. Not all of them have the possibility to be left ajar, but with a bit of imagination there are ways to do it. My AEG 220 can be left ajar when you leave the inner drum lids open, the outer lid can't be closed then. Same with my Philips, but that one had an second lid. If you left the inner lid open, you can't close both the other lids. This is to protect the machine from being operated when it's not closed properly.
All H-axis toploaders can be left open (with the lid up) to dry out, I never have seen one that needed to be closed after use. Not all of them have the possibility to be left ajar, but with a bit of imagination there are ways to do it. My AEG 220 can be left ajar when you leave the inner drum lids open, the outer lid can't be closed then. Same with my Philips, but that one had an second lid. If you left the inner lid open, you can't close both the other lids. This is to protect the machine from being operated when it's not closed properly.
@rapunzel
In regards to the TL machine in the bathroom, I reckon its the fact that someone bothered to take the time to actually open the lid that 'saved' it.
TL machines don't seem as prone to smells as they're not completely sealed when closed up like an FL, but with proper use, an FL should never have the stink issue either. Even machines used on cold might avoid it provided the door and detergent drawer are always left ajar afterwards.
As I've said before - there is no need for "Drum Cleaning Cycles" on machines used in hot and warm washes without excess fabric softener and maybe with LCB sometimes too. Miele has this right, in that the "Hygiene Info" warning related to drum cleanliness only displays if the machine runs enough consecutive cycles below 60ºC (hot) - thus saving time and energy on behalf of the consumer.
Consumer ignorance, seemingly results in a lot of washers today getting a bad rap when they shouldn't. The "I just turn it off and on" mentality has sadly caught on too much with consumers.
My limited experiences suggest the above "advice" (if you'll go that far) does work.
That F&P FL machine was whiffy when I arrived in my new residence in February, but no longer so after hot washes, a bleach run and "doors and drawers ajar" were implemented. In fact, leaving the door ajar is an instilled norm among the housemates, without any verbal communication on my behalf. Win-win.
In regards to the TL machine in the bathroom, I reckon its the fact that someone bothered to take the time to actually open the lid that 'saved' it.
TL machines don't seem as prone to smells as they're not completely sealed when closed up like an FL, but with proper use, an FL should never have the stink issue either. Even machines used on cold might avoid it provided the door and detergent drawer are always left ajar afterwards.
As I've said before - there is no need for "Drum Cleaning Cycles" on machines used in hot and warm washes without excess fabric softener and maybe with LCB sometimes too. Miele has this right, in that the "Hygiene Info" warning related to drum cleanliness only displays if the machine runs enough consecutive cycles below 60ºC (hot) - thus saving time and energy on behalf of the consumer.
Consumer ignorance, seemingly results in a lot of washers today getting a bad rap when they shouldn't. The "I just turn it off and on" mentality has sadly caught on too much with consumers.
My limited experiences suggest the above "advice" (if you'll go that far) does work.
That F&P FL machine was whiffy when I arrived in my new residence in February, but no longer so after hot washes, a bleach run and "doors and drawers ajar" were implemented. In fact, leaving the door ajar is an instilled norm among the housemates, without any verbal communication on my behalf. Win-win.
launderess
Well-known member
A few thoughts
Americans by and large have not liked H-Axis washers for domestic use. They didn't when Philco, Bendix, Westinghouse, Maytag, and several others made them and that opinion largely did not change over the years. American housewives made the move from wringer washers to top loaders that that largely was that.
American housewives largely have clung to doing laundry the way it has for ages; one day a week (or weeks or months)a "big wash" is done where all laundry is completed. For this you obviously need washers not only with large to great capacity but speedy cycles.
Being a nation blessed with abundant natural resources for the most part unless clean and clear water was in short supply using vast amounts of it didn't bother most persons. This included heating it in central boilers/heaters for use in those aforementioned quick cycle washing machines.
Maytag not only hastened their own demise by the disastrous introduction of Neptune washers, but that fiasco along with a few other ill timed washers being release turned legions off the idea of front loaders.
American housewives and others simply were not told the truth about front loading washers; namely cycle times are longer (in exchange for more gentle treatment of washing), capacity is often smaller, the machine must be kept open when not in use to prevent mould/smells and so forth.
Things went on in that H-axis washers require firm and stable flooring. The more you increase capacity and size of unit this becomes more true; it just is a simple matter of physics. This came as Americans were moving their laundries out of basements and onto ground and first floors if not above.
Another shoe that had to drop was that unlike many parts of the world power supply to many American homes does not always have the 208v-240v routinely normal for Europe. With self heating either off the table and or having to take longer due to decreased voltage cycle times either had to increase or performance suffered.
Americas love of chlorine bleach on laundry day is another problem. The stuff is corrosive With heavy and improper use likely to shorten a front loaders life span. Commercial/Laundromat machines are built to a different standard and more importantly can be repaired if not entirely rebuilt often onsite. Thus any damage to seals, bearings or whatever can be either avoided, delayed and then finally corrected.
The maturity of top load design meant such washers were relatively inexpensive even for TOL models. H-axis washers by nature of design cost more which was something else Americans were not prepared to put up with.
Smelly washing machines? You'll notice those complaints started coming when liquid detergents largely replaced powders. That in addition to the push for more low to cold water washing. Previously when at least one load was done per week in hot to boiling water using a oxygen bleach containing powdered detergent that was enough. So now consumers are expected to run a machine empty on a "clean" cycle which basically is nothing more than a version of a boil wash in order to keep it clean. Where is the energy savings in that?
Americans by and large have not liked H-Axis washers for domestic use. They didn't when Philco, Bendix, Westinghouse, Maytag, and several others made them and that opinion largely did not change over the years. American housewives made the move from wringer washers to top loaders that that largely was that.
American housewives largely have clung to doing laundry the way it has for ages; one day a week (or weeks or months)a "big wash" is done where all laundry is completed. For this you obviously need washers not only with large to great capacity but speedy cycles.
Being a nation blessed with abundant natural resources for the most part unless clean and clear water was in short supply using vast amounts of it didn't bother most persons. This included heating it in central boilers/heaters for use in those aforementioned quick cycle washing machines.
Maytag not only hastened their own demise by the disastrous introduction of Neptune washers, but that fiasco along with a few other ill timed washers being release turned legions off the idea of front loaders.
American housewives and others simply were not told the truth about front loading washers; namely cycle times are longer (in exchange for more gentle treatment of washing), capacity is often smaller, the machine must be kept open when not in use to prevent mould/smells and so forth.
Things went on in that H-axis washers require firm and stable flooring. The more you increase capacity and size of unit this becomes more true; it just is a simple matter of physics. This came as Americans were moving their laundries out of basements and onto ground and first floors if not above.
Another shoe that had to drop was that unlike many parts of the world power supply to many American homes does not always have the 208v-240v routinely normal for Europe. With self heating either off the table and or having to take longer due to decreased voltage cycle times either had to increase or performance suffered.
Americas love of chlorine bleach on laundry day is another problem. The stuff is corrosive With heavy and improper use likely to shorten a front loaders life span. Commercial/Laundromat machines are built to a different standard and more importantly can be repaired if not entirely rebuilt often onsite. Thus any damage to seals, bearings or whatever can be either avoided, delayed and then finally corrected.
The maturity of top load design meant such washers were relatively inexpensive even for TOL models. H-axis washers by nature of design cost more which was something else Americans were not prepared to put up with.
Smelly washing machines? You'll notice those complaints started coming when liquid detergents largely replaced powders. That in addition to the push for more low to cold water washing. Previously when at least one load was done per week in hot to boiling water using a oxygen bleach containing powdered detergent that was enough. So now consumers are expected to run a machine empty on a "clean" cycle which basically is nothing more than a version of a boil wash in order to keep it clean. Where is the energy savings in that?
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Where is the energy savings in that?
Well, there would be energy savings for those washers with a Clean cycle if one did all actual laundry in tap cold water!
But yes, the logic here does make me wonder. Part of it is that I'd cringe at the thought of routinely running a washer empty just to clean it. Even if I KNEW in that particular case it would actually come out ahead in energy savings.
It seems more reasonable to just regularly wash in warmer water. Thus the machine should stay cleaner, and one's laundry benefits.
To be fair, however, the washer makers have to create something for a wide market, including "I'll stuff it until nothing can move, then add two more shirts, and hit 'Cold Wash'" users. Miracles can't happen with performance in cold water, but if the washer does start really reeking, well, people are likely to notice, and not like it... Thus the Clean cycle presumably fixes that reeking washer problem, and even may help make that cold water abusers laundry come out a bit better, since the machine will be kept cleaner than would be the case otherwise.
Well, there would be energy savings for those washers with a Clean cycle if one did all actual laundry in tap cold water!
But yes, the logic here does make me wonder. Part of it is that I'd cringe at the thought of routinely running a washer empty just to clean it. Even if I KNEW in that particular case it would actually come out ahead in energy savings.
It seems more reasonable to just regularly wash in warmer water. Thus the machine should stay cleaner, and one's laundry benefits.
To be fair, however, the washer makers have to create something for a wide market, including "I'll stuff it until nothing can move, then add two more shirts, and hit 'Cold Wash'" users. Miracles can't happen with performance in cold water, but if the washer does start really reeking, well, people are likely to notice, and not like it... Thus the Clean cycle presumably fixes that reeking washer problem, and even may help make that cold water abusers laundry come out a bit better, since the machine will be kept cleaner than would be the case otherwise.
Kind of off-topic thought
There was one Amazon review that blamed a Miele customer agent for recomending an empty boilwash once every month or so.
Customer was in rage.
Looking at it, an empty boilwash in an empty Miele uses less then 35l of water and less then 1kW of energy.
So, over here, a machine cleaning cycle impacts efficency equal to one fully loaded warm wash, give or take.
So basicly, equivalent to me having a friend stay over one night or not.
Or me spilling salsa on my favorit TV blanket.
Like, seriously, every 40 cycles is a bit often in my opinion, but if you do it once every 100 cycles, that cleaning cycle makes up about 1% of the washers energy and water usage, approximated.
If - for a normal warm wash - a FL uses half of everything a washer without cleaning cycle uses (and that is conservative), a clean cycle on a FL would have to use the equivalent of 20 or 50 normal warm FL washes respectively to get the FL and TL equal in operating cost.
So, even if done every 40 cycles, the usage won't cancel out the savings.
And for those who say there should be no need to have such a cleaning cycle: I don't think you should have to clean a dryers cabinet every other year. But, as far as I understand, that is considered normal dryer maintanance.
There was one Amazon review that blamed a Miele customer agent for recomending an empty boilwash once every month or so.
Customer was in rage.
Looking at it, an empty boilwash in an empty Miele uses less then 35l of water and less then 1kW of energy.
So, over here, a machine cleaning cycle impacts efficency equal to one fully loaded warm wash, give or take.
So basicly, equivalent to me having a friend stay over one night or not.
Or me spilling salsa on my favorit TV blanket.
Like, seriously, every 40 cycles is a bit often in my opinion, but if you do it once every 100 cycles, that cleaning cycle makes up about 1% of the washers energy and water usage, approximated.
If - for a normal warm wash - a FL uses half of everything a washer without cleaning cycle uses (and that is conservative), a clean cycle on a FL would have to use the equivalent of 20 or 50 normal warm FL washes respectively to get the FL and TL equal in operating cost.
So, even if done every 40 cycles, the usage won't cancel out the savings.
And for those who say there should be no need to have such a cleaning cycle: I don't think you should have to clean a dryers cabinet every other year. But, as far as I understand, that is considered normal dryer maintanance.
stricklybojack
Well-known member
.
The idea that FL machines are smell prone is a powerful meme in this country.
Just yesterday I was talking to an old friend on the phone he mentioned having bought a new GE laundry pair for $500 total. I said, "I don't have to ask if that is a FL washer cause I already know." He answered, "ya those are expensive and smell bad."
Anecdotal yes, but this is from my 'clean freak' friend, and so says to me there is a lot of PR that needs to happen for FL machines to dominate the US landscape as TLers have since forever.
The idea that FL machines are smell prone is a powerful meme in this country.
Just yesterday I was talking to an old friend on the phone he mentioned having bought a new GE laundry pair for $500 total. I said, "I don't have to ask if that is a FL washer cause I already know." He answered, "ya those are expensive and smell bad."
Anecdotal yes, but this is from my 'clean freak' friend, and so says to me there is a lot of PR that needs to happen for FL machines to dominate the US landscape as TLers have since forever.
launderess
Well-known member
Cleaning dryer's cabinet
When my repairman was here once working on the WP portable asked him about cleaning out the cabinet of the matching dryer. He said it wasn't necessary and to leave things as they were.
OTOH have seen members doing just his and found all sorts of lint and God only knows what else.
That being said if one understands correctly long as a dryer is properly designed and vented there shouldn't be any lint inside the cabinet. What is see is the dust and fluff that gets sucked in during operation.
When my repairman was here once working on the WP portable asked him about cleaning out the cabinet of the matching dryer. He said it wasn't necessary and to leave things as they were.
OTOH have seen members doing just his and found all sorts of lint and God only knows what else.
That being said if one understands correctly long as a dryer is properly designed and vented there shouldn't be any lint inside the cabinet. What is see is the dust and fluff that gets sucked in during operation.
Well I'll leave it at this
All I know is from 1978 to 2002 my mother had a GE filterflo, Kennmore then finally the Whirlpool. ALl 3 were run on hard well water and run hard especially when I worked for 2 summers in a non union sweatshop re-manufacturing alternators and starters.
Not once were the machines "cleaned" with the asinine, vapid cleaning cycle found on the HE junk today.
Not once.
Bold3 then Oxydol and occasionally Cheer were used. Clothes were clean as was the machine. My father worked in a union factory for 29 years. His work clothes stunk of foundry dust, machine dust and oil. So did mine. We cut wood and heated that way for 15 years. Sawdust and ground in Indiana clay dirt went right in the friggin thing. Stuff came out clean and we did not have to play games with error codes reboots, and stupid crap like that. The whirlpool lasted 18 years with no service calls and believe me when I tell you, it got USED!
Face it, we're not running out of water, air, sunshine, or the like. The planet is not getting warmer. In reality people are just getting dumber. And accepting mindless garbage from Eco minded control freaks who have a control agenda at heart.
If your rationale is hey, I want a machine that pisses on the clothes because my water bill is too expensive and I want to save money, by all means knock yourself out.
If your logic is gee, I read on ______ (fill in the blank) or saw in USA today that a survey of 1000 morons think human induced climate change will end humanity as we know it and gosh, I need a HE machine so I can do my part and saddle up with all the other sheeple and save mother earth, then I am sorry to say you are a total dumbass.
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming................et cetera.
All I know is from 1978 to 2002 my mother had a GE filterflo, Kennmore then finally the Whirlpool. ALl 3 were run on hard well water and run hard especially when I worked for 2 summers in a non union sweatshop re-manufacturing alternators and starters.
Not once were the machines "cleaned" with the asinine, vapid cleaning cycle found on the HE junk today.
Not once.
Bold3 then Oxydol and occasionally Cheer were used. Clothes were clean as was the machine. My father worked in a union factory for 29 years. His work clothes stunk of foundry dust, machine dust and oil. So did mine. We cut wood and heated that way for 15 years. Sawdust and ground in Indiana clay dirt went right in the friggin thing. Stuff came out clean and we did not have to play games with error codes reboots, and stupid crap like that. The whirlpool lasted 18 years with no service calls and believe me when I tell you, it got USED!
Face it, we're not running out of water, air, sunshine, or the like. The planet is not getting warmer. In reality people are just getting dumber. And accepting mindless garbage from Eco minded control freaks who have a control agenda at heart.
If your rationale is hey, I want a machine that pisses on the clothes because my water bill is too expensive and I want to save money, by all means knock yourself out.
If your logic is gee, I read on ______ (fill in the blank) or saw in USA today that a survey of 1000 morons think human induced climate change will end humanity as we know it and gosh, I need a HE machine so I can do my part and saddle up with all the other sheeple and save mother earth, then I am sorry to say you are a total dumbass.
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming................et cetera.
glomain
Well-known member
washman
COULD OF NOT SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!
COULD OF NOT SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!
washman,
While I disagree with you on global warming - it's an established fact - there's quite a bit of truth in what you're saying.
I remember being lectured (endlessly) back home in Germany on my immoderate use of water and energy and (heavens above!) stainless steel for having a dishwasher and tumble-dryer.
The horror of it.
And every single one of those who lectured me smoked like freight trains.
I'm the only person on the left politically whom I knew in the 1980s and early '90s who did not smoke.
Americans need to man up, grow a pair of balls and make a choice: Either good FLs or good Tls, but all this cold water, non-phosphate detergent washing is worthless. It doesn't work. At.All.
Sadly, as the 'fabric softener' cycles show, HE TLs COULD actually be made to clean by simply reprogramming their microprocessor. Somebody should make an effort to figure out how to do it, how to make 'hot' really 'hot' again, high water levels and an end to the stupid, never works anyway, load sensing.
First thing we did in our over 100 year old house was to get rid of the 6liter toilets and put the real ones back in. Just how the hell does a toilet save water when you have to flush it three times? Answer: It doesn't.
While I disagree with you on global warming - it's an established fact - there's quite a bit of truth in what you're saying.
I remember being lectured (endlessly) back home in Germany on my immoderate use of water and energy and (heavens above!) stainless steel for having a dishwasher and tumble-dryer.
The horror of it.
And every single one of those who lectured me smoked like freight trains.
I'm the only person on the left politically whom I knew in the 1980s and early '90s who did not smoke.
Americans need to man up, grow a pair of balls and make a choice: Either good FLs or good Tls, but all this cold water, non-phosphate detergent washing is worthless. It doesn't work. At.All.
Sadly, as the 'fabric softener' cycles show, HE TLs COULD actually be made to clean by simply reprogramming their microprocessor. Somebody should make an effort to figure out how to do it, how to make 'hot' really 'hot' again, high water levels and an end to the stupid, never works anyway, load sensing.
First thing we did in our over 100 year old house was to get rid of the 6liter toilets and put the real ones back in. Just how the hell does a toilet save water when you have to flush it three times? Answer: It doesn't.
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