New SQ Video By Eugene(LorainFurniture) ***Important***

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

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If modern FL washers are so awful, why is it that many people (and most all Europeans) are happy with them?

Try to drive a manual transmission car the same way you'd operate an Automatic sometime and see how that goes Then go on the Internet and complain how bad manual transmissions are.

Most of the reason that modern frontloaders are not liked is because people are unwilling to learn, adjust and adapt to something new. People today are real quick to find fault with everything other then themselves.
 
Because if every modern washing machine sold in the last 5 years were faulty, and not acting like a "washing machine" there would be outright revolt in the streets and in media.
I know there's lots of negative complaints online, but there are also slews of positive reviews online as well, with modern machines.

So which is it?

A sales rep from WP told me a few years ago in Home Depot that their complaints/repairs hover around 18% for Maytag and WP, and about 15% or KA.

Yeah, that's a lot of people when you sell millions of machines a year.
But it's not ALLLLLLL of them like so many here keep saying.
If ALL modern machines were terrible, then WP, GE, Elux, even LG and Samsung would be taking returns and losing millions of dollars a year.
But they are not.

I'm a WP stockholder, and their stock has been struggling.
But it's struggling because of high raw material costs mainly.
Their inventory numbers and warranty claims are not high enough culprits to be reported on in the quarterly meetings.
In fact, their sales are doing pretty well.

Now if folks on here want to claim to their heart's content that they dislike modern machines, they hate them, they think their styling sucks, their durability is not the same, their washing characteristics are "not what you believe in."
Sure, all valid opinions.
But it's just not fact, with tested evidence, that ALL modern machines are not capable of washing clothes.
Reviewed.com, Cnet, Consumer Reports all conduct soil tests and fabric damage tests on all these modern machines.
And to varying degrees, all of them get stains out, to a satisfactory percentage. Some more than others. But never 0% stain removal.
Not any better or worse than machines from 20 years ago.
When you have modern TL or FL machines removing 50% of blood, or 60% of wine or 40% of grass stains, on the Normal cycle, like this test here:

https://www.cnet.com/products/electrolux-eflw417siw-washing-machine/review/2/

It means the machine is working to pretty satisfactory degree.

I'll just add some anecdotal evidence from personal experience.
My parents have had a 1982 Maytag washer all the way up till this past thanksgiving. It gave up the ghost.
They replaced it with a modern TL Maytag 765. It washes all their clothes as well as, or better, than the old Maytag.
I have a Maxima FL from 2015. It washes just as well, often better, than my parents' old Maytag. It also washes as well, or better, and GENTLER than every old TL GE or WP DD machine I've had in every apartment I've lived in.
And the coin op Speed Queens I've been saddled to use? Pfffff, don't hold a candle to my Maxima.
My aunts' have had a Neptune set, and now a modern LG set, and both were stellar washing performers.

Will any of these modern machines last 15 years, 20? 30?
Not a chance.
But as long as they are working from the factory as designed, they are all very good "washing" machines.
No matter how much that fact pisses off the nostalgics.
 
Reply # 60

Hi John, I agree with everything you wrote, except where you say there is no chance that these modern washers do not have a chance of lasting 15,20, or 30 years.

 

Having been in the appliance sales and service business for over 40 years I can only observe that new machines require far less repair and have far better materials and assembly quality control.

 

Then you factor in smaller families and many people having multiple homes and MILLIONS more washers, DWs Refrigerators and ranges out there you are going to see plenty of 30 YO appliances in the future that are working just fine and they will eventually be replaced because they are old not worn out.

 

This is what we are seeing already, almost 1/2 of the appliances we see on several of the larger dealers recycle piles every week still work just fine or have very minor easily fixed problems.

 

John L.
 
From what I see the two biggest drivers in appliance longevity are:

1. People are reluctant to attempt repair. A 4 year old machine has a failure and the attitude is "it's old, time for a new one". The other foolish idea is that if one failure happens another is just around the corner so junk it. I had a friends father trash an immaculate high end 6 year old Lennox furnace because of a $800 installed inducer fan failure. The new furnace was almost $7000 installed. People and irrational fears are silly...

2. Many companies, especially Asian, discontinue service parts after an unreasonably short period of time. Makes service difficult if you can't gets parts. Frequent design change also wreaks part availability longevity, especially since Asian companies seem to need to design new parts for each product rather then using a similar part from prior designs. Modern manufacturing ease has kinda destroyed the old parts bin mentality.
 
It’s more the economics of it.

Back it the day washers cost thousands of dollars adjusted for inflation. Look up an old ad for a 70’s washer and punch that number in to an inflation calculator. If a 2k washer cost $300 to fix, I’d bet the farm someone would opt to repair.

Fast forward, now a new washer can be had for $300 in today money. If I bought a washer for $300, I most certainly would not spend $200 fixing it.

It’s simply a matter of economics. It doesn’t have much to do with parts, etc.
 
Very few washers today sell for $300... In almost all cases on a fairly recent machine it is worth calling service for an estimate.

I'm funny, I would pay $200 to repair a $300 machine, because I am a repair always guy. I can't scrap something viable if it can be repaired. Of course since I generally fix anything that I own myself, it is usually darned inexpensive for me. And yet another reason why I would NEVER buy an extended warranty on anything I buy ever.
 
$300 New Washer ?

I don't know of any washer you can actually buy and have delivered for this price and the average price of a delivered machine is well over $700 with some few models costing over twice that.

 

Our average  completed repair call on a washing machine was $183 last year and it is much easier for a customer to pick up the phone or Email us the details of a broken washer than to try to get a new machine delivered.
 
Interesting John L.
I'll take your word for it, since you're definitely in the field; in peoples' homes. I'm not.
In regards to people tossing out machines that need "minor repairs" I tend to agree.
Heck, we did that with our 1982 Maytag.
It just needed new belts and a good scrubbing of the pulleys.
But.....it was at the stage of really needing a deep cleaning, corrosion control and all new hoses.
To the point where my parents were nervous another more major breakdown was around the corner.
I imagine a lot of the modern machines you repair....or end up replacing, are just like that, albeit younger. And less extreme.
People are just more likely to replace their machine than go through $200 repair, and fear another break down is nigh.
(All numbers are for conversation-sake)

Being an engineer and data nerd, I'd love to see comparative data on warranty repairs and initial quality scores on machines from the 70s and 80s, compared to today......and I wonder what the comparisons would be.
 
There are machines on sale for 300 dollars, or even less, on a fairly regular basis.
Really, they are.
They're kind of undesirable, but I guess that's their point.

https://www.menards.com/main/applia...13-c-5596.htm?tid=-5186617042062417618&ipos=1

^ On sale, $299 till 2-7.

During the recent Black Friday sales, there were a couple Amana and GE top loaders on sale for $250-$350 as well.

Right now there are now strong sales, so it looks like the average lowest price is hovering around $400.
 
.
I sold the very cleaned up 35 year old DD machine to a woman whose old AmanaTag
bit the dust. $245 delivered, with hook up and haul away included.
She needed the machine for a limited time only because they were planning on selling the house, but she needed it RIGHT NOW. My ad was only a few hours old.
I see used dealers who charge that and far more for the machines they must get pretty much for free.
With the overhead of a showroom, truck and driver, back office personel, store personel, and repair guy i imagine they not becoming too rich. Although sometimes they make a bundle on “payment plans” that rape the unsophisicated consumer.[this post was last edited: 2/2/2018-17:50]
 
I have a bottom of the barrel washer that I sell for $350. With delivery it’s $400 + tax. So in my state $432 delivered.

My average ticket for washer repair is $2-300. In fact, the only washer repair I do for less than $200 would be agitator dogs and even that is $180 ish. My price is a bit on the high side but I’m definitely cheaper than sears, ae, etc.
 
You can do a 'profile wash' (water begins warm; gradually heats during a very long wash tumble) with US machines that have an internal heater and a Sanitize cycle. Did it all the time with my 2010 Frigidaire and 2015 Maytag Maxima. Although...it is my understanding that some current washers don't heat to 145-150 for their sanitize cycle.
 
Regarding the 2018 SQ vs Maytag Commercial grade comparison with the small white load. It looks like there’s significantly more water in the Maytag machine. It appears the SQ would have done better if a medium load was selected or if it was able to auto select the amount of water for the load.

Does the autofill option on the 2018 SQ add much to the cycle time? I’m thinking the newer 2018 model, because of its wash action, requires more water than the older SQ models.
 
I was referring to the videos in Reply #35 in this thread. The water level on the SQ was much lower than the MT, likely not ideal for the 2018 model.
 

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