New Washer, Fisher & Paykel or Bosch

[aldspinboy]

Steven hello i was woundering what cycles do like so far? and have you witness faster drying times then the f&p pair? and do you like the water levels? i hope to have been some help on the bosch pair the sell alot in the white goods buisness. What detergents & additives are you likeing so far Thanks Darren K

 

[bimmer740]

Wash Cycle TImes

We have been noticed that the Bosch has been doubling the time of the wash, running an entire program cycle over again when it really should have been ending. According to the instruction book it is because the machine has sensed to many suds in the water and needs to wash them out. Adjusting the amount of soap has seemed to help but we are now using less than the recommened amout of soap according to the bottle of Tide HE. For a large load we measure below the "1" mark on the cap and I worry that this isnt enough detergent to really get the clothes clean. Is this a common problem in modern front loader?

 

[appnut]

Steven, I wouldn't worry about it at all. First of all, there probably still quite a bit of detergent residue left in your clothes from the F&P. Second, Bosch is known to be very sensitive to sudsing as well as producing more suds than most of the other front loaders on the market. And yes, you're over-dosing on deterent if it's having to consistently go into a suds routine to remove excess suds. That should be your first clue.

 

[panthera]

Steven,

I have a suggestion. Run a load of heavy cottons (towels, for instance) through a wash cycle with hot water and a water softener like Calgon.
This will rid them of residual detergent and give you a working index for judging what is too much and what is ok on detergent level.
Living between both cultures, I have to say that I am still not all that crazy about American HE detergents. I think they are overpriced and not really fully adapted.
Contact a Miele or BOSCH dealer who sells European Persil or similar. I know it is outrageously expensive, but buy the smallest box possible and give it a try. Personally, I would take the "Vollwaschmittel" and not the Color variation. American versions of our washers use so much cooler water, even for "hot" than we do that I don't think the Color variation will produce the results you want.
Oh, to answer a question you asked prior to purchase. I have always had Miele or LG. LG was rated better for pet hair the last time I bought a machine, so that is what I went with. I would not wish LG on anyone in the US; here they take care of their customers, there they shit on them. My experience with Miele has been very good. My last Miele is still running, I gave it to friends. Now in its second decade, it has only had one repair...and that was their fault, not the machine's.
Over here in Germany, Miele is more expensive than Bosch, but nowhere near the price it is in the US. It's the snob appeal, I guess. Over time, our consumer guides rank the machines more or less thus:
Miele
AEG
BOSCH/Siemens/Constructa

and then everything else.

If you ever get a chance to pick up a used Miele, do. If the cesspool problem is that bad, why not go for the grey water solution. That is legal now in Long Island, no? Thought I read something about that a while back.
In any case, BOSCH is a good choice, 10000x better than anything built by Whirlpool.

Oh, Funguy...just a commment. I, too, get super-duper excited about some topics and regularly get slammed by the UK folk for it. Maybe you should try toning it down just a bit? I base my comments on having worked in the used white goods business, selling new Mieles/AEGs and having worked both with Bauknecht and B/S/H...there is nothing wrong with being young, you'll get over that...but really and truly, since the rest of the world has been using FLs for many decades, and we don't all have them anchored to 15" steel reinforced concrete pads, maybe you should read up on the advances in fuzzy logic and solid state electronics over the last fifty years or so.

 

[bimmer740]

Keven,
Thank you for the information. I think I am going to have to purchase a box of Persil. The "Vollwaschmittel" that you mentioned, is that able to be used for both colors and white?

I have to agree with the Whirlpool comment, they just arent what they used to be. Im a big fan of German products, I have owned several Miele vacuums, my bosch dishwasher a BMW, and now a Mercedes. I dont think I could ever bring myself to buy a Non-German car, the Infiniti's that my parents own just dont seem to compare no matter how much the Japanese try. I love how the Germans pay such close attention to detail, I guess being somewhat OCD its very important to me. LOL Im glad that at least in Europe LG stand behind their products. Its a shame that they dont have the proper service network here in the US, since they seem to make some good products and at a resonable price.

 

[panthera]

Vollwaschmittel

Implies you can use it for everything except woolens and silk. In reality, it has bleaches and, over time, would fade colors if you washed in 140°F water constantly.
But for normal, colorfast things you wash in "American" warm temperatures I think you will find it works wonders.
Laundress could give you a very thorough breakdown of which European detergents work best in US conditions.
("Voll-" in this context implies "universal" or "Complete", "Waschmittel" is a compound noun, Wasch=Laundry or (who'd a' thunk it?: wash!) and "Mittel" is a substance or compound.
A Color Waschmittel has less aggressive bleaches (in the US it may have very aggressive bleaches, but they don't kick in until the water is very very hot. Practical, when you think about it)
.
A "Schon" Waschmittel is for delicates, "fine" things...

German Vollwaschmittel tend to have enzymes for gummy thing,s fats, proteins and to "snip" off loose cellulose fibers. Since our sewage treatment plants permit the use of phosphates and other really powerful surfactants, they can get clothes clean and still leave them soft. My feeling is, however, that over time my clothes fade a bit more here in Europe than they do in the US. Since the only real difference is the detergent, I suspect that, over time, a Vollwaschmittel and really hot water is not the best choice for really bright colors.

 

[dudleyfuddpucke]

I dont think I could ever bring myself to buy a Non-German c

Guess it depends on what you place on importance, Bimmer740. After owning two dozen of every kind of car imaginable the past 30 years, I don't think I cold every bring myself to own another German car, due to the lack of attention to detail (i.e. the endless breakdowns, not to mention the ungodly prices for spare/maintenance parts, etc.) There's a good reason VW, Mercedes, etc. are at or near the bottom on all reliability surveys (I think it was '05 or '06 that the Merc. E class was rated the fastest decaying car sold in the U.S.)

As it pertains to this forum, I avoided Miele, Whirlpool FLers, etc. for the same reason. Too many friends and business associates with them having too many problems, short life span, etc.

Cheers!

 

[miele4848]

Durability of german products

Sadly our products aren't as shiny as their reputation anymore...the International market forced the european manufacturers to produce cheaper products. 20 jears ago you had to save money, a lot of money to buy you the things you wanted. they were expensive but lasted a long time. Saving is a typical german tradition, so most of the asset in Germany is well saved on private bank accounts.

Today, every week new apliences are available, cheap and crappy, but once they're sold nobody cares how long they last or how they perform. even though japanese cars are ceaper they are allways more reliable than any german car.

Miele & Bosch are the only major german washer brands that still produce quality.

 

[funguy10]

Bimmer740, Are you using HE detergent? The Bosch requires HE detergent being a front loader. Also, one of the main consumer complaints about Fisher & Paykel washers is that they do not rinse good without doing a deep rinse. You can avert this by choosing the "Softener Rinse" option on the control panel. Also, we do have good Front-Loaders avalible in the USA. The most popular one currently is the Duet HT by Whirlpool. We do have Bosch Nexxt machines as I have seen them at Lowe's. However, I have never seen Miele, Asko, or AEG machines on sale here. Other machines I like include the LG TROMM SteamWasher, the Samsung SilverCare, and the Duet Steam/Kenmore HE5t SteamTeam. We also have the Frigidaire(Electrolux) Affinity, the GE Adora, the Maytag Epic and the Duet Sport. It is great to know we have them because it is basically only them and HE Top-Loaders such as the Kenmore Oasis. The conventional Top-Loaders are based on the generic design of either Whirlpool or Electrolux.

 

[jhducote]

Fresh Start

Steven,

I will suggest Fresh Start as an alternative detergent. I have used it in my Miele W1926 for 6+ years and have been pleased with the results. I use about 1/3 of the recommended amount for top loaders (about 2 tablespoons plus or minus depending on specific load size). The clothes come out clean and free of detergent residue.

Congrats on the new Bosch's. Very good friends nearby in San Franciso have had their Nexxt washer and dryer for about two years now with no problems, and they are pleased with them.

A quick question to Panthera. Where can I find Persil for sale in Europe? I was recently in Biberach, Germany and Alba, Italy and went to a couple of local, large format grocery stores. They did not stock Persil. Granted these are smaller towns, and perhaps the distribution network focuses on larger towns. I would like to pick up a box or two next time I am over and will appreciate any tips on where to find it.
John.

 

[nmaineman36]

Congrats on your Bosch. I was told that its close to what Miele has for quality. Yet there is no comparison at all to a Miele. Anyways that said for an HE detergent Tide is good. I prefer the powder but I also find that the Liquid Tide HE w/Bleach does a good job. You will find that if your previous washer didnt rinse out well it will cause suds in a Front loader. In fact Asko suggested at one time not to add detergent to laundry if you just started to use it since there is believe it or not enough detergent in your clothes to actually wash them.
Also you can avoid the "mold issue" by simply leaving the door open to the washer after the days wash has been done. This will air it out and let the moisture escape. If you do that and every so often run the washer without anything but bleach you shouldnt have any issues. You only need to run the bleach if you dont use a hot wash cycle. My 3 cents.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Steven,

The Bosch was a good choice..and they're made in the USA. If I was buying a new machine, it would be a Bosch Nexxt. You'll probably find, over time, that your clothes look cleaner than they did before with the F&P. I noticed that big time when I bought my Calypso 7 years ago, replacing an older top load Kenmore....it was a very big difference.

I can't believe, though, that they don't have a decent LG service network on Long Island, if not NYC?? I would have expected just the opposite. The LG is an excellent washer, too.

I certainly know what you mean by the cesspool issue in LI....you don't ever want to have to replace one of those!!!

 

[panthera]

John,

Persil is sold more or less everywhere - I am surprised you weren't able to find it.
The next time you head on over, take a look at the Henkel website for Persil www.persil.de and you will find a section called "service". Give them a call and they can tell you who has it in the town you are in.
Generally speaking, I wouldn't expect to find it at the very largest discount stores, they have their own brands. Try one of the following:
Hertie
Karstadt
Kaufhof
Tenglemann
Plus
Schlecker (as someone recently, mentioned, not a nice store to its employees)
These stores carry Henkel products in their normal program.
If your German isn't up to a conversation, give me a few days notice in advance and I will find out for you.

 

[foraloysius]

Real also sells Persil and I think I saw it at Kaufland too.