Newly Acquired Telefunken Concertino 5384W - Questions

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Telefunken Radios!--the international broadcaster I work for-when I worked in the Wash DC studio-a neighboring tech did some work in the German language service-He was "rewarded" with a radio much like that one-and his worked perfectly-I had a list of SW frequencies from the Greenville transmitter site(where I work now)And that radio tuned them in clearly-remember the site is to broadcast overseas-not to DC-and the radio was essentually receiving signals from the backplane of the antennas.Its AM and FM sections worked well.The radio did not have the FM stereo-"multiplex" adaptor.For the FM stations I worked for earlier-they had some early stereo generators sitting in their storerooms-some were even tubed.Many FM stations had to replace their transmitters with newer ones so the stereo generators would work-and I have had to align some of these-those famous scope "butterfly" patterns!Yes the radio you found will most likely need new caps-esp the electrolytic ones in the power supplies.Old ones can fail at any time-causing rectifier tubes and devices to fail and even burning up power transformers.
At the site I work at--even have a Telefunken 500Kw SW transmitter-had to replace a RF driver tube in it earlier in the week-the tube overheated and failed-provides 12Kw RF power to the PA tube.the driver tube is designed in Germany-but built by a company in France.And those are expensive!!$18 grand!
Its right about those Telefunken 12AX7,12AU7 tubes-guitarists and Hi-Fi folks go agoo-goo over them.At this point in time--tubes are PARTS to me.Years and years ago-bought some Telefunken tubes from German Hi-Fi in downtown DC for my Mc Intosh amps-the old ones needed replacing anyway-still have those Telefunken tubes in the amps!
 
Roger,

If you can find the guy's contact info in Mass, I'd like to have it. Paul found me a SABA Freiburg Continental 410US radio that doesn't turn on and I'd like to get it working again! (I didn't have the time to investigate but I'll at least try to figure why nothing happens when I try to turn it on!). I have a few Saba radios and consoles but this is a model that I wanted for years! This radio didn't came with it's remote control but I already had an older one from an older Saba 400 that plugs in it. Unlike my other Saba radios, this one has some solid state components in the FM Multiplex section. Previous models had tubes on their multiplex adapters.

[this post was last edited: 8/8/2013-02:47]

philr++8-8-2013-02-20-55.jpg
 
Sandy,

I'm wondering what kind of multiplex adapters Chevy used in these early systems. I think they were used with 4 speaker systems but I'm wondering what these 4 buttons were used for.
Strangely, Chevy was the first GM division to offer FM mpx in 1965 and Olds who was often a technology leader at GM was the last to offer it in 1967,. Other GM divisions got FM stereo in 1966 models but not all used 4 speakers or right/left separation like Chevy and Cadillac. In my 1967 Buick Riviera, the multiplex adapter doesn't have separate controls like on the early Chevrolet system and it's only linked to a two speaker system (1 front and 1 rear!). The multiplex adapter in my 1967 Riviera also uses a relay to switch the stereo separation on when the signal is strong enough. Everytime the "FM" (Stereo) light comes on an off on weaker stations, you can hear the relay making loud clicks in the multiplexer/rear speaker amp. This is annoying enough to turn off the radio if you can't get a stronger station or a mono station to listen to!(CBC/Radio Canada still has some mono FM stations here, so that's often what I listen to in this car!).

Some later models (like my former 1968 Buick Wildcat) which had the same separate "Delco Stereo" amp/multiplex box didn't have that relay anymore.
 
PhilR:

If memory serves (and it has been more than forty years since I sat in Miss Chapman's Caprice), those controls were bass, treble, fade (front/rear) and left/right.

Buick wasn't the only division that did the front/rear thing - lesser Chevys also used it, though as I recall, Consumer Reports quite liked the resulting sound quality.

It took a surprisingly long time for FM Stereo Multiplex and tape to be integrated into the same unit as the rest of the radio. Even up into 1969, GM cars with tape had the unit under-dash, although it was in a nacelle styled to match the dash. And for a long time on many cars, you could have FM Multiplex or tape, but not both. The first car I owned with a fully integrated unit (AM, FM, FM Multiplex and 8-track tape all in one in-dash unit) was a 1974 Pontiac Grand Ville.
 
Phil:

thought I'd sent you that repair info in an eMail last year sometime... will try to find it again if not.

David you have $150+ worth of tubes in there at least. I save Tele ax7s for my best vintage pre-amps and amps, they will never make them again and they are widely acknowledged to be the best ever made, smooth plate slightly above rib plates. In this table radio they wouldn't have a significant audible effect, so you could use any new Russian production in it just as well.
 
and yes be careful with the tube markings...

as Teles in particular are known to rub off easily, and having good markings affects the value to collectors. The Asians especially go gaga over these and other desirable vintage tubes. Not only are they not making them any more, but guitar players are notorious for burning through tubes, thus making them rarer every day.
 
Always appreciated the Grundigs, but I don't own any. I came across a couple others today - Braun and Korting(?) or Kortig.

PhilR - your SABA is a beauty and the one on top(?) of it looks nice, too(another SABA?)
 
another SABA?

Yes Phil, The one on the top is a small Villingen 12, 

 

And the console under it is a SABA too (a 2000 Stereo 11)... I like to pile these up!
 
Tested the tubes today, caveat: the tube tester itself has never been serviced so it might not be accurate. The 12XA7 tubes tested right at 22+/-, my book says 22 or higher is good. The other tubes tested good. My tube tester is a B&K Dyna-Jet 707. I also have a B&K Dyna-Quik 650 but I don't use it since most of the tubes I try to test on it require an add-on module that I don't have.

 

The only tubes I have not been able to test on the 707 are the magic eye tubes.

[this post was last edited: 8/11/2013-12:45]
 
I have only found a very few weak tubes in my radios, most tubes test strong. It's usually the caps that are the problem. But I am happy that you were able to test the tubes.

Usually older tube testers should have the resistors and capacitors replaced. And in most tube testers there are a ton of them! But it can be done.
 
I just e-mailed a friend who is a radio operator and in the local radio club to see if there are any local vintage radio repairmen (none in the phone book). I'd rather do this locally than send it off or drive 100 miles. I also have a Zenith Transoceanic I'd like to get working.

 

I've thought of sending my 707 tube tester off to be refurbished but I just haven't done it yet. There is a guy on ebay offering this service for $125.00, link below.

 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
PhilR thank you for the picture of the Saba Hi-Fi console-beautiful!!Love the lighted TT compartment.Makes "DJ'ing" easier in the dark.What kind of TT-changer does the unit use?Remember Grundig liked PE turntables.I figure the Saba can tune SW with its tuner?
Magic eye tuning indicators-if it lights up brightly and moves while tuning the tube is good.If it lights dimly-than its going bad.A tuning eye tube is nothing more than a very miniature cathode ray tube-simple one at that-not designed to show images or other high res picures-just act as a tuning meter.
For tube testers I always prefer the Hickock ones-worth seeking out.We have like three at work-including a Hickock one packaged in a metal case instead of wood one for the Navy.Most radio stations I dealt with had Hickock checkers.
 
Saba used PE and Dual turntables. This small 2000 Stereo console has a PE 66 with 110V only. The instruction manual for it shows the illustration of the equivalent European Mainau console with a Dual turntable. It used to have a felt mat but it was in bad shape so I replaced with a newer rubber one from another PE 66.

 



 

 My other console, an even smaller Saba "Reichenau 12" that I got from my great aunt who bought it new when I was 10 years old! It also has a PE 66 turntable with dual voltage (the radio/amp also has dual voltage while the 2000 Stereo only has 115V). This one originally had a Dual 660 cartridge and plastic connector for it but I replaced it about 20 years ago with a PE cartridge just like the one I have in the 2000 console.  

 



 

The Freiburg Continental 410 US has many voltage selections 115, 125. 220, 240.  There were versions of this radio with the North American dial like the one I have and other versions with the European dial but both now had the same name while on the previous models, Freiburg was for the European model and "400" was for the North American model.  From the link I posted below, it seems there were not two but 4 versions of this radio. The Freiburg 14, Freiburg 14 export, Continental 410 US and Continenatal 410 USE...

I think older 400-11 and older radios, like my other 300-11 radios had just 115 volts while the European Meersburg and Freiburg had more voltage selections.  Strangely both the European versions with city names and the North American versions with model numbers were available in Canada. I don't know if it's the same in the US?  

 

European versions also had a dial glass with European cities for both the AM and shortwave sections and German terms for the controls while the North American versions had "STEREO HIFI" and English terms written on their dial glass instead. The selections for some bands were also reversed on the pushbuttons of some models. The FM scales were going to 108 MHz on North American models while early European (until the series 11) had FM scales going to 100 MHz and the series 12-14 had scales that went to 104 MHz.  The series 11 North American Saba radios with stereo amps could be fitted with a Multiplex adapter (which I think was standard on the 400-4000 models) but not the equivalent European versions which didn't even have a plug for it. 

 

 

I finally managed to get the 410 radio partially working. The on/off switch just makes an impulse that moves a strange relay. Instead of closing contacts when it's energized, it closes contacts after being energized briefly while pressing on the "On-Off switch of either the radio or the remote control and the next time it's energized, it opens them... That doesn't work so I had to manually press on the relay to make the radio work. The motorized volume control doesn't work either but the automatic tuning works and it still stops on stations which is a good thing! The amp has a muting feature which is activated by the auto tuning function but for some reason (which I haven't found), the sound works for just about a second after the button is released and then the sound is muted again. The EM 84 tubes are probably weak too or something else is wrong as they show some green but they seem to be very "out of focus" and their display doesn't change when tuning on a station. Also, the one on the left says "mono tuning" and the one on the right says "stereo tuning", I have no idea what's their purpose... I know that many Freiburg/400 radios have two magic eyes, even the older ones without FM stereo decoders but I have no idea why they have two.

Continental 410US US Dial Radio SABA; Villingen, build |Radiomuseum.org

Continental 410US US Dial Radio SABA; Villingen, build 1963/1964, 12 pictures, 15 schematics, 14 tubes, Germany, semiconductors, Broadcast Receiver - or past
www.radiomuseum.org www.radiomuseum.org
 
Phil: sent info on Ross Hochstreisser the Bavarian radio guy

if any one else needs that info.
EM-84: if the dark area doesn't change when tuning it's just as likely to be a circuit issue, probably a bad cap somewhere... they should ALL be changed, you can burn out the power transformer or other bad stuff can result from bad caps.. with any old units it's a matter of WHEN caps will fail not IF. I have a bunch of EM84s.

B&K 707 is a decent tester, it has lots of prewired sockets, does a true mutual conductance (mHos) test on most tubes, not sure about 12ax7, we had a B&K 747 once (later version) that worked similarly. B&K 650 does an emissions test only, iirc. Hickok testers are very good, they had the paptent on that circuit for a long time. We had a Hickok 6000 and several of the TV-7D/U models in the gray metal case made for the US Navy, an excellent tester, and one most favored by tube dealers, along with the ultra pricey Hickok 539c and the stratospherically priced British AVO. Currently we use a Sencore MU-140 Continental for testing, very compact, does both Mutual cond and emissions test and convenient to use.
 

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