philr
Well-known member
Hi Rex,
Here's a picture of it.
Here's a picture of it.
Newly Acquired Telefunken Concertino 5384W - Questions
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ovrphil
Well-known member
PhilR : COOOOL!
Beautiful!
58limited
Well-known member
Tested the tubes today, caveat: the tube tester itself has never been serviced so it might not be accurate. The 12XA7 tubes tested right at 22+/-, my book says 22 or higher is good. The other tubes tested good. My tube tester is a B&K Dyna-Jet 707. I also have a B&K Dyna-Quik 650 but I don't use it since most of the tubes I try to test on it require an add-on module that I don't have.
The only tubes I have not been able to test on the 707 are the magic eye tubes.
[this post was last edited: 8/11/2013-12:45]
The only tubes I have not been able to test on the 707 are the magic eye tubes.
[this post was last edited: 8/11/2013-12:45]
whirlcool
Well-known member
I have only found a very few weak tubes in my radios, most tubes test strong. It's usually the caps that are the problem. But I am happy that you were able to test the tubes.
Usually older tube testers should have the resistors and capacitors replaced. And in most tube testers there are a ton of them! But it can be done.
Usually older tube testers should have the resistors and capacitors replaced. And in most tube testers there are a ton of them! But it can be done.
58limited
Well-known member
I just e-mailed a friend who is a radio operator and in the local radio club to see if there are any local vintage radio repairmen (none in the phone book). I'd rather do this locally than send it off or drive 100 miles. I also have a Zenith Transoceanic I'd like to get working.
I've thought of sending my 707 tube tester off to be refurbished but I just haven't done it yet. There is a guy on ebay offering this service for $125.00, link below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141027970004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I've thought of sending my 707 tube tester off to be refurbished but I just haven't done it yet. There is a guy on ebay offering this service for $125.00, link below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141027970004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
PhilR thank you for the picture of the Saba Hi-Fi console-beautiful!!Love the lighted TT compartment.Makes "DJ'ing" easier in the dark.What kind of TT-changer does the unit use?Remember Grundig liked PE turntables.I figure the Saba can tune SW with its tuner?
Magic eye tuning indicators-if it lights up brightly and moves while tuning the tube is good.If it lights dimly-than its going bad.A tuning eye tube is nothing more than a very miniature cathode ray tube-simple one at that-not designed to show images or other high res picures-just act as a tuning meter.
For tube testers I always prefer the Hickock ones-worth seeking out.We have like three at work-including a Hickock one packaged in a metal case instead of wood one for the Navy.Most radio stations I dealt with had Hickock checkers.
Magic eye tuning indicators-if it lights up brightly and moves while tuning the tube is good.If it lights dimly-than its going bad.A tuning eye tube is nothing more than a very miniature cathode ray tube-simple one at that-not designed to show images or other high res picures-just act as a tuning meter.
For tube testers I always prefer the Hickock ones-worth seeking out.We have like three at work-including a Hickock one packaged in a metal case instead of wood one for the Navy.Most radio stations I dealt with had Hickock checkers.
philr
Well-known member
Saba used PE and Dual turntables. This small 2000 Stereo console has a PE 66 with 110V only. The instruction manual for it shows the illustration of the equivalent European Mainau console with a Dual turntable. It used to have a felt mat but it was in bad shape so I replaced with a newer rubber one from another PE 66.
My other console, an even smaller Saba "Reichenau 12" that I got from my great aunt who bought it new when I was 10 years old! It also has a PE 66 turntable with dual voltage (the radio/amp also has dual voltage while the 2000 Stereo only has 115V). This one originally had a Dual 660 cartridge and plastic connector for it but I replaced it about 20 years ago with a PE cartridge just like the one I have in the 2000 console.
The Freiburg Continental 410 US has many voltage selections 115, 125. 220, 240. There were versions of this radio with the North American dial like the one I have and other versions with the European dial but both now had the same name while on the previous models, Freiburg was for the European model and "400" was for the North American model. From the link I posted below, it seems there were not two but 4 versions of this radio. The Freiburg 14, Freiburg 14 export, Continental 410 US and Continenatal 410 USE...
I think older 400-11 and older radios, like my other 300-11 radios had just 115 volts while the European Meersburg and Freiburg had more voltage selections. Strangely both the European versions with city names and the North American versions with model numbers were available in Canada. I don't know if it's the same in the US?
European versions also had a dial glass with European cities for both the AM and shortwave sections and German terms for the controls while the North American versions had "STEREO HIFI" and English terms written on their dial glass instead. The selections for some bands were also reversed on the pushbuttons of some models. The FM scales were going to 108 MHz on North American models while early European (until the series 11) had FM scales going to 100 MHz and the series 12-14 had scales that went to 104 MHz. The series 11 North American Saba radios with stereo amps could be fitted with a Multiplex adapter (which I think was standard on the 400-4000 models) but not the equivalent European versions which didn't even have a plug for it.
I finally managed to get the 410 radio partially working. The on/off switch just makes an impulse that moves a strange relay. Instead of closing contacts when it's energized, it closes contacts after being energized briefly while pressing on the "On-Off switch of either the radio or the remote control and the next time it's energized, it opens them... That doesn't work so I had to manually press on the relay to make the radio work. The motorized volume control doesn't work either but the automatic tuning works and it still stops on stations which is a good thing! The amp has a muting feature which is activated by the auto tuning function but for some reason (which I haven't found), the sound works for just about a second after the button is released and then the sound is muted again. The EM 84 tubes are probably weak too or something else is wrong as they show some green but they seem to be very "out of focus" and their display doesn't change when tuning on a station. Also, the one on the left says "mono tuning" and the one on the right says "stereo tuning", I have no idea what's their purpose... I know that many Freiburg/400 radios have two magic eyes, even the older ones without FM stereo decoders but I have no idea why they have two.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/saba_saba_continental_410us.html
My other console, an even smaller Saba "Reichenau 12" that I got from my great aunt who bought it new when I was 10 years old! It also has a PE 66 turntable with dual voltage (the radio/amp also has dual voltage while the 2000 Stereo only has 115V). This one originally had a Dual 660 cartridge and plastic connector for it but I replaced it about 20 years ago with a PE cartridge just like the one I have in the 2000 console.
The Freiburg Continental 410 US has many voltage selections 115, 125. 220, 240. There were versions of this radio with the North American dial like the one I have and other versions with the European dial but both now had the same name while on the previous models, Freiburg was for the European model and "400" was for the North American model. From the link I posted below, it seems there were not two but 4 versions of this radio. The Freiburg 14, Freiburg 14 export, Continental 410 US and Continenatal 410 USE...
I think older 400-11 and older radios, like my other 300-11 radios had just 115 volts while the European Meersburg and Freiburg had more voltage selections. Strangely both the European versions with city names and the North American versions with model numbers were available in Canada. I don't know if it's the same in the US?
European versions also had a dial glass with European cities for both the AM and shortwave sections and German terms for the controls while the North American versions had "STEREO HIFI" and English terms written on their dial glass instead. The selections for some bands were also reversed on the pushbuttons of some models. The FM scales were going to 108 MHz on North American models while early European (until the series 11) had FM scales going to 100 MHz and the series 12-14 had scales that went to 104 MHz. The series 11 North American Saba radios with stereo amps could be fitted with a Multiplex adapter (which I think was standard on the 400-4000 models) but not the equivalent European versions which didn't even have a plug for it.
I finally managed to get the 410 radio partially working. The on/off switch just makes an impulse that moves a strange relay. Instead of closing contacts when it's energized, it closes contacts after being energized briefly while pressing on the "On-Off switch of either the radio or the remote control and the next time it's energized, it opens them... That doesn't work so I had to manually press on the relay to make the radio work. The motorized volume control doesn't work either but the automatic tuning works and it still stops on stations which is a good thing! The amp has a muting feature which is activated by the auto tuning function but for some reason (which I haven't found), the sound works for just about a second after the button is released and then the sound is muted again. The EM 84 tubes are probably weak too or something else is wrong as they show some green but they seem to be very "out of focus" and their display doesn't change when tuning on a station. Also, the one on the left says "mono tuning" and the one on the right says "stereo tuning", I have no idea what's their purpose... I know that many Freiburg/400 radios have two magic eyes, even the older ones without FM stereo decoders but I have no idea why they have two.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/saba_saba_continental_410us.html
firedome
Well-known member
Phil: sent info on Ross Hochstreisser the Bavarian radio guy
if any one else needs that info.
EM-84: if the dark area doesn't change when tuning it's just as likely to be a circuit issue, probably a bad cap somewhere... they should ALL be changed, you can burn out the power transformer or other bad stuff can result from bad caps.. with any old units it's a matter of WHEN caps will fail not IF. I have a bunch of EM84s.
B&K 707 is a decent tester, it has lots of prewired sockets, does a true mutual conductance (mHos) test on most tubes, not sure about 12ax7, we had a B&K 747 once (later version) that worked similarly. B&K 650 does an emissions test only, iirc. Hickok testers are very good, they had the paptent on that circuit for a long time. We had a Hickok 6000 and several of the TV-7D/U models in the gray metal case made for the US Navy, an excellent tester, and one most favored by tube dealers, along with the ultra pricey Hickok 539c and the stratospherically priced British AVO. Currently we use a Sencore MU-140 Continental for testing, very compact, does both Mutual cond and emissions test and convenient to use.
if any one else needs that info.
EM-84: if the dark area doesn't change when tuning it's just as likely to be a circuit issue, probably a bad cap somewhere... they should ALL be changed, you can burn out the power transformer or other bad stuff can result from bad caps.. with any old units it's a matter of WHEN caps will fail not IF. I have a bunch of EM84s.
B&K 707 is a decent tester, it has lots of prewired sockets, does a true mutual conductance (mHos) test on most tubes, not sure about 12ax7, we had a B&K 747 once (later version) that worked similarly. B&K 650 does an emissions test only, iirc. Hickok testers are very good, they had the paptent on that circuit for a long time. We had a Hickok 6000 and several of the TV-7D/U models in the gray metal case made for the US Navy, an excellent tester, and one most favored by tube dealers, along with the ultra pricey Hickok 539c and the stratospherically priced British AVO. Currently we use a Sencore MU-140 Continental for testing, very compact, does both Mutual cond and emissions test and convenient to use.
firedome
Well-known member
Early stereo before mpx
used both the AM and FM bands to carry signal for L + R channels, so maybe that's why 2 x EM84, but not sure how SABAs were configured. We had a few of the German jobs over the years but they often use odd tubes and are difficult to work on because hard to get parts for, plus tended to be very low power. Many used oval speakers similar to car radios. The muting issue sounds like it could be the switch itself, try a shot of DeOxit 5.
BTW I never saw a German radio of that era that DIDN'T have a SW band!
used both the AM and FM bands to carry signal for L + R channels, so maybe that's why 2 x EM84, but not sure how SABAs were configured. We had a few of the German jobs over the years but they often use odd tubes and are difficult to work on because hard to get parts for, plus tended to be very low power. Many used oval speakers similar to car radios. The muting issue sounds like it could be the switch itself, try a shot of DeOxit 5.
BTW I never saw a German radio of that era that DIDN'T have a SW band!
philr
Well-known member
Roger, I also thought about stereo on two bands as a possible reason for two EM 84 tubes but the only radios I have seen with that were Japanese models. My Saba has a Multiplex adapter and two magic eyes.
And I might be wrong but I thought the stereo was on both AM bands. Also, the reason why they went with multiplex stereo separation here in North America is because the US was concerned about not making the mono radios obsolete as they would get just a part of the diffusion if it was to be sent on two different channels.
And I might be wrong but I thought the stereo was on both AM bands. Also, the reason why they went with multiplex stereo separation here in North America is because the US was concerned about not making the mono radios obsolete as they would get just a part of the diffusion if it was to be sent on two different channels.
Yes,in the days before Multiplex-stations had the option of using their AM to carry one channel,and the other channel on the FM-this had two big problems-the audio quality was mismatched,and radio station managers and owners didn't want to tie up their AM to carry essentually the same program as their FM.So called "AM stero" didn't last long-becuase of quality and the expense of the stereo encoder for the AM transmitter.And many older AM transmitters wouldn't work with these devices.So both the radios and encoders became collectors items-sometimes stations would give away their AM encoders to whoever wanted it!And the 4 diffrent formats for aM stereo made for another issue-radios had to be able to decode each of these formats.A selector switch was on the radio so the listener could select for the format the station was using.In one station I put in a transmitter for-new Continental Electronics 317-used a stereo encoder on loan from Continental-did work OK.But used it for only 2 weeks-the time of the loan of the encoder-returned it back to Continental.The station didn't want to go stereo.
At the workplace here-the transmitter site we also have a B&K 747-its cheap plastic case has fallen apart-you have to look around for its settings book-the sturdy wood cases of the Hickoks have stood up better-and the Hickock is better quality and more accurate.I reach for the Hickock whenever I have to match up 5879 or 6AK5 tubes for the GE transmitter low level modulator audio stages.You have to match tubes in these stages or the audio is distorted from the transmitter.I have had to do this with many other AM transmitter low level modulator audio stages.
At the workplace here-the transmitter site we also have a B&K 747-its cheap plastic case has fallen apart-you have to look around for its settings book-the sturdy wood cases of the Hickoks have stood up better-and the Hickock is better quality and more accurate.I reach for the Hickock whenever I have to match up 5879 or 6AK5 tubes for the GE transmitter low level modulator audio stages.You have to match tubes in these stages or the audio is distorted from the transmitter.I have had to do this with many other AM transmitter low level modulator audio stages.
PhilR-looks like PE66 TT was commonly used-like how the tT accesries can be securely stored in the TT compartment-the clips that hold the 45 adaptor.NICE!Suppose the boxes hold spare cartridges and styli?And silly me-SW to overseas areas is like AM to folks in the US.
davetranter
Well-known member
Sound fades out
I had this problem once. Turned out to be the Cathode resistor in the audio power amplifier stage going high. They are usually run very hot (due to cost cutting), but perhaps not in a Telefunken???
All best
Dave T
I had this problem once. Turned out to be the Cathode resistor in the audio power amplifier stage going high. They are usually run very hot (due to cost cutting), but perhaps not in a Telefunken???
All best
Dave T
AM Stereo AFAIK was also done by using two AM radio stations. By using AM for both channels there was less risk of mismatched signals.
AM on European radios was divided in S(hort)W(ave), M(edium)W(ave) and L(ong)W(ave). In Germany they were called Kurzwelle (KW), Mittelwelle (MW) and Langwelle (LW).
FM is also known as Ultrakurzwelle (UKW).
AM on European radios was divided in S(hort)W(ave), M(edium)W(ave) and L(ong)W(ave). In Germany they were called Kurzwelle (KW), Mittelwelle (MW) and Langwelle (LW).
FM is also known as Ultrakurzwelle (UKW).
firedome
Well-known member
early stereo broadcasting
in the US was always AM + FM until the FCC approved the GE/Zenith sub-carrier addition/subtraction system, which was backwards compatible, in 1961. That's why tuners had 2 separate dials with 2 separate indicators rather than a selectable multi-band dial with a single indicator. The world's first stereo all-in-one receiver was the Harman-Kardon Stereo Festival TA-260 of 1958 and many copied the idea.
Most US made FM radios and receivers were manufactured with provision for adding multiplex either on the chassis or outboard during the period 1958-61. There days those add-on multiplex units can rival the tuners and receivers they were intended for in price!
in the US was always AM + FM until the FCC approved the GE/Zenith sub-carrier addition/subtraction system, which was backwards compatible, in 1961. That's why tuners had 2 separate dials with 2 separate indicators rather than a selectable multi-band dial with a single indicator. The world's first stereo all-in-one receiver was the Harman-Kardon Stereo Festival TA-260 of 1958 and many copied the idea.
Most US made FM radios and receivers were manufactured with provision for adding multiplex either on the chassis or outboard during the period 1958-61. There days those add-on multiplex units can rival the tuners and receivers they were intended for in price!
