The first U.S. city to attempt this is now the first one to have its decision reversed in court.
Welcome news to those who prefer gas for stove-top cooking.
Welcome news to those who prefer gas for stove-top cooking.
Not So Fast re: "Banning" Gas Stoves
- Thread starter rp2813
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[COLOR=#1d2228; font-family: 'YahooSans VF', 'Yahoo Sans', YahooSans, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18.005px; font-weight: 400]A three-judge panel of the Ninth U.S Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco [/COLOR]ruled[COLOR=#1d2228; font-family: 'YahooSans VF', 'Yahoo Sans', YahooSans, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18.005px; font-weight: 400] that Berkeley’s ban is preempted by a federal law, and is therefore illegal. [/COLOR]
Wait, the government is actually following and enforcing the law?
Let me soak up this rare and brief moment.
Wait, the government is actually following and enforcing the law?
Let me soak up this rare and brief moment.
When I bought this place in 1997, it had a Corning glass electric cooktop. It showed bad staining under the glass, and was on its last legs. I replaced it with a Frigidaire "Gas on Glass" cooktop, and have never regretted that move. I kept the electric oven, which is on another wall of the 1960's remodeled kitchen. A GE P*7, which works OK.
There's also an old electric range - Frigidaire Compact30 - in the patio kitchen. I have a Modern Maid gas range (same size) I found, which should fit OK into the same space. And I had gas run to that location as well. But since I rarely cook in that spare kitchen, I've put it off for about 10 years now. And, I'll need to test the Modern Maid before I yank the electric range that's in there now.
There's also an old electric range - Frigidaire Compact30 - in the patio kitchen. I have a Modern Maid gas range (same size) I found, which should fit OK into the same space. And I had gas run to that location as well. But since I rarely cook in that spare kitchen, I've put it off for about 10 years now. And, I'll need to test the Modern Maid before I yank the electric range that's in there now.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
And so the drawn out legal process goes...
Smoking wasn't banned from indoors overnight either.
On any issue,
There is back and forth between those with progressive ideals that will serve humanity best
and
those who have a financial or society damaging scheme they are trying to manipulate the situation.
It's so f**king boring and predictable at this point, it doesn't matter what the issue. One can predict the grifters will be bottom feeding in desperation somewhere in the shadows.
Smoking wasn't banned from indoors overnight either.
On any issue,
There is back and forth between those with progressive ideals that will serve humanity best
and
those who have a financial or society damaging scheme they are trying to manipulate the situation.
It's so f**king boring and predictable at this point, it doesn't matter what the issue. One can predict the grifters will be bottom feeding in desperation somewhere in the shadows.
Well, my home is heated by gas, although the furnace blower apparently consumes about 500 watts when it's going. Even when temps are at their lowest, like this past winter, the furnace would only come on about once an hour, for 5-15 minutes. Now that things have warmed up considerably, especially this weekend, the furnace doesn't seem to have come on at all.
I suppose I should look into some sort of heat exchange system for home heating. One problem is that the house, other than the front yard, is surrounded by concrete. The nearest earthen area is about 30 feet away from the back of the house.
I suppose I should look into some sort of heat exchange system for home heating. One problem is that the house, other than the front yard, is surrounded by concrete. The nearest earthen area is about 30 feet away from the back of the house.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Benzene is highly toxic
I want to know why years ago (and still today) it was stated that gas dryers should not be operated inside a structure without venting outdoors; yet gas stoves one could practically heat their homes with the open flame.
That doesn't work. One could have a standing pilot gas stove and no vent over it, it would be running around the clock always on, putting out wasteful heat and emitting benzene and other chemicals into indoor air and that was fine?
Yet a gas dryer running for 45 minutes inside a house there was something wrong with that?
NO.
It's like they knew SOMETHING wasn't right years ago with gas burning appliances, but just didn't have balls or perhaps the legal foundation to protect people.
A gas stove, especially the old standing pilot type, was constantly polluting the homes indoor air with benzene and other contaminants. And if one turned on their oven for several hours to make a ham or something, all that exhaust was inside. Add in a few burners running to simmer foods.... what a toxic mess.
My grandmother died of cancer in 1982. She never smoked or drank as far I know. She worked at a museum. In the 70s she had a 2 bedroom house with a Hardwick coffee brown gas stove with oven on top and no kitchen or bathroom vent, a standard 30 gal. gas w. heat, and a small 70%? eff. f.a. gas furnace. She didn't even like my parents smoking in her house and this was the 70s.
As a kid I remember noticing how her kitchen was always warmer than the rest of the house, that small standing blue flame under one of the burners, and that gas smell.
When she was near death, the doctors told my mother they tried to operate on her but when they cut her open there was cancer cels everywhere. There was nothing they could do.
Let's just say my suspicions are run high of what she died of.
These crappy, inferior gas appliances need to be out of our living environments.
www.latimes.com
I want to know why years ago (and still today) it was stated that gas dryers should not be operated inside a structure without venting outdoors; yet gas stoves one could practically heat their homes with the open flame.
That doesn't work. One could have a standing pilot gas stove and no vent over it, it would be running around the clock always on, putting out wasteful heat and emitting benzene and other chemicals into indoor air and that was fine?
Yet a gas dryer running for 45 minutes inside a house there was something wrong with that?
NO.
It's like they knew SOMETHING wasn't right years ago with gas burning appliances, but just didn't have balls or perhaps the legal foundation to protect people.
A gas stove, especially the old standing pilot type, was constantly polluting the homes indoor air with benzene and other contaminants. And if one turned on their oven for several hours to make a ham or something, all that exhaust was inside. Add in a few burners running to simmer foods.... what a toxic mess.
My grandmother died of cancer in 1982. She never smoked or drank as far I know. She worked at a museum. In the 70s she had a 2 bedroom house with a Hardwick coffee brown gas stove with oven on top and no kitchen or bathroom vent, a standard 30 gal. gas w. heat, and a small 70%? eff. f.a. gas furnace. She didn't even like my parents smoking in her house and this was the 70s.
As a kid I remember noticing how her kitchen was always warmer than the rest of the house, that small standing blue flame under one of the burners, and that gas smell.
When she was near death, the doctors told my mother they tried to operate on her but when they cut her open there was cancer cels everywhere. There was nothing they could do.
Let's just say my suspicions are run high of what she died of.
These crappy, inferior gas appliances need to be out of our living environments.
Opinion: Don't worry about the government taking your gas stove — worry about the pollution inside your home
Turning on one gas stove burner for 45 minutes creates benzene levels in kitchens comparable to breathing in cigarette smoke, which then drifts through your whole house.
www.latimes.com
You are right to question the safety of gas stoves and dryers, especially in older homes that may not have been properly ventilated. There is a growing body of scientific evidence that shows that exposure to combustion fumes from gas appliances can increase the risk of cancer, heart disease, and other respiratory problems.
In the case of your grandmother, it is impossible to say for sure whether her exposure to gas fumes from her stove contributed to her cancer. However, the fact that she lived in a home with no kitchen or bathroom vent, and that she had a gas stove with a standing pilot flame, suggests that she may have been exposed to high levels of combustion fumes.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) now requires all gas stoves to have sealed combustion chambers, which help to prevent the escape of combustion fumes into the home. However, older stoves may not have this feature, and they can still be a significant source of indoor air pollution.
In the case of your grandmother, it is impossible to say for sure whether her exposure to gas fumes from her stove contributed to her cancer. However, the fact that she lived in a home with no kitchen or bathroom vent, and that she had a gas stove with a standing pilot flame, suggests that she may have been exposed to high levels of combustion fumes.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) now requires all gas stoves to have sealed combustion chambers, which help to prevent the escape of combustion fumes into the home. However, older stoves may not have this feature, and they can still be a significant source of indoor air pollution.
Balanced approach
Probably for now gas appliances should stay in the home. As we ramp up electricity production, and make it renewable. This will happen gradually and we need a lot of the home energy use non electric. Yes you need a hood for that stove and yes the gas dryer is vented. Eventually we will replace the gas appliances with electric, over time.
Probably for now gas appliances should stay in the home. As we ramp up electricity production, and make it renewable. This will happen gradually and we need a lot of the home energy use non electric. Yes you need a hood for that stove and yes the gas dryer is vented. Eventually we will replace the gas appliances with electric, over time.
I refuse to go all electric until the rates drop considerably. I have faced SEVEN rate increases in my electric bill in the last 6 months while the cost for gas and oil have dropped alot. So I will continue to use my gas stove and oil boiler that are affordable to operate.
vacerator
Well-known member
I like
A gas top, but electric oven. Our neighbors just got a lower end GE gas range with a center griddle and the broiler is not in the oven. It is in the bottom like those old stoves had. I was surprised to see that on a stainless steel range. The oven door is very light, and it only has steam cleaning.
A gas top, but electric oven. Our neighbors just got a lower end GE gas range with a center griddle and the broiler is not in the oven. It is in the bottom like those old stoves had. I was surprised to see that on a stainless steel range. The oven door is very light, and it only has steam cleaning.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#8
When you say you have a gas stove and oil heat, does that mean you have a propane stove with some kind of tank outside just for the stove
or do you have a gas service piped to the home from the street?
The oil for home heating, which a lot of NE states residents still have for home heating, isn't a big deal because it's a finite amount of liquid which is in a tank either inside or outside and it isn't even combustible, much less will it explode.
Sure it's messy when burned but...no disaster looming unless the tank or lines leak.
One can drop a lit match into a bucket of heating oil and the oil will extinguish the match. Can't complain about that.
Oil and gases, including petroleum, are supposed to become cheaper in the short term(1 year period) but prices will escalate quickly there after for several reasons.
When you say you have a gas stove and oil heat, does that mean you have a propane stove with some kind of tank outside just for the stove
or do you have a gas service piped to the home from the street?
The oil for home heating, which a lot of NE states residents still have for home heating, isn't a big deal because it's a finite amount of liquid which is in a tank either inside or outside and it isn't even combustible, much less will it explode.
Sure it's messy when burned but...no disaster looming unless the tank or lines leak.
One can drop a lit match into a bucket of heating oil and the oil will extinguish the match. Can't complain about that.
Oil and gases, including petroleum, are supposed to become cheaper in the short term(1 year period) but prices will escalate quickly there after for several reasons.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#10
All homes (or nearly all) have electric already.
Only 55% of homes have gas or propane for their principal type of home heating.
Theoretically, all anyone has to do to switch to electric home heating is to buy some electric heaters and plug them in in their home.
Electric can do EVERYTHING in the home.
Gas only does like 4 things <span style="text-decoration: underline;">at most</span> in the typical home: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer, and stove.
And most of the time still needs electric to operate the controls and valves to make those stinky, dirty appliances work.
Electric is 100% efficient, often operates silently, cleanly, and doesn't explode. It's the BEST product for home energy because it does it all.
Gas ....is the poorman's crutch. A dirty, dangerous source of sustenance that has cost more than one person dearly either in his pocket book for EXPENSIVE install costs or repairs, or perhaps his very life via an explosion or asphyxiation.
I was a poorman like that years ago. I put gas in all of the homes I built starting in 1992. I had a 500 gallon propane tank installed for a house I built out in the country 20 years ago and I had a gas furnace, water heater, and stove. Live and learn.
But now I know better and the technology has changed with solar, batteries, and wind kicking butt. One can even cheaply make their own electric for FREE via solar.
No gas for me. Now I will rip out gas appliances, gas lines, and laterals in any house I own. I don't want that dangerous stuff near me.
All homes (or nearly all) have electric already.
Only 55% of homes have gas or propane for their principal type of home heating.
Theoretically, all anyone has to do to switch to electric home heating is to buy some electric heaters and plug them in in their home.
Electric can do EVERYTHING in the home.
Gas only does like 4 things <span style="text-decoration: underline;">at most</span> in the typical home: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer, and stove.
And most of the time still needs electric to operate the controls and valves to make those stinky, dirty appliances work.
Electric is 100% efficient, often operates silently, cleanly, and doesn't explode. It's the BEST product for home energy because it does it all.
Gas ....is the poorman's crutch. A dirty, dangerous source of sustenance that has cost more than one person dearly either in his pocket book for EXPENSIVE install costs or repairs, or perhaps his very life via an explosion or asphyxiation.
I was a poorman like that years ago. I put gas in all of the homes I built starting in 1992. I had a 500 gallon propane tank installed for a house I built out in the country 20 years ago and I had a gas furnace, water heater, and stove. Live and learn.
But now I know better and the technology has changed with solar, batteries, and wind kicking butt. One can even cheaply make their own electric for FREE via solar.
No gas for me. Now I will rip out gas appliances, gas lines, and laterals in any house I own. I don't want that dangerous stuff near me.
For those us up north where it's quite cold during winter, heating the entire house with electric resistance heaters would be cost prohibitive.
According to The National Fire Protection Association, electric stoves cause more fires than gas stoves.
According to The National Fire Protection Association, electric stoves cause more fires than gas stoves.
Yes, I have 2 of those propane tanks. One for the whole house generator and one for my gas stove, gas fireplace and gas Hearthstone. You can preach to the choir about how you hate gas, Brad, but when you want to pay my ridiculously high electric bill, I'll switch. When I was a kid, we had cheap, abundant, reliable hydro power from the rivers in this state, but the environmentalists fought to have those dams removed because it was hurting the fish, removing them only hurt electric consumers.
Reply #12
When the electric rates skyrocket in price, please send a check for Dan’s electric bill.
To quote John Lefever: “You’d be thousands richer using gas appliances than you would with electric”.
May not be the exact quote but remember seeing something similar while surfing through the archives.
When the electric rates skyrocket in price, please send a check for Dan’s electric bill.
To quote John Lefever: “You’d be thousands richer using gas appliances than you would with electric”.
May not be the exact quote but remember seeing something similar while surfing through the archives.
Reply #14
Here Here Tim!!! Preach it. If I build another house, hopefully it will have gas or propane for some things. No more all-electric for me if possible. SO THERE!!!! Just like no efffing electric car.
Here Here Tim!!! Preach it. If I build another house, hopefully it will have gas or propane for some things. No more all-electric for me if possible. SO THERE!!!! Just like no efffing electric car.
Homes are going to go all electric
Hi Tim, would you mind posting what you pay per kilowatt for electricity per gallon for heating oil and propane?
Then some real comparisons could be made, how high is your electric bill? Anyway, what do you pay for propane and heating oil for a year?
an electric stove likely wouldn’t cost you any more to operate than a propane stove, a heat pump water heater would definitely be cheaper to operate than a propane, water heater.
Brad, you just get too wrapped up in this some of what you write is good but nobody is endorsing resistance electric heat. That is not the future. It’s the most expensive type of heat you can use.
Heating oil is also far worse than burning propane or natural gas for the environment it makes a lot of pollution. It causes a lot of pollution problems when it leaks from tanks and it’s dirty to refine, etc..
John
Hi Tim, would you mind posting what you pay per kilowatt for electricity per gallon for heating oil and propane?
Then some real comparisons could be made, how high is your electric bill? Anyway, what do you pay for propane and heating oil for a year?
an electric stove likely wouldn’t cost you any more to operate than a propane stove, a heat pump water heater would definitely be cheaper to operate than a propane, water heater.
Brad, you just get too wrapped up in this some of what you write is good but nobody is endorsing resistance electric heat. That is not the future. It’s the most expensive type of heat you can use.
Heating oil is also far worse than burning propane or natural gas for the environment it makes a lot of pollution. It causes a lot of pollution problems when it leaks from tanks and it’s dirty to refine, etc..
John
Yes Oil Heating has gone beyond obsolete, houses I'd know with oil burning furnaces have fast and furiously been converted to gas or replaced with newer gas furnaces with the removal of those tanks and the disappearance of those trucks to fill them onward...
Although I miss the still pleasant and fragrant smell of that oil as well as the tank being filled and watching the gauge on it rise, as well as the whistle signaling the tank was full, while the long hose was dragged behind and retrieved to and from the back of our house...
-- Dave
Although I miss the still pleasant and fragrant smell of that oil as well as the tank being filled and watching the gauge on it rise, as well as the whistle signaling the tank was full, while the long hose was dragged behind and retrieved to and from the back of our house...
-- Dave
