Not So Fast re: "Banning" Gas Stoves

[wayupnorth]

My electric rate adding everything up comes out to .28/kwh. I only buy propane and heating oil once a year. Right now oil is 2.89/gal., propane is 2.99/gal. I get my hot water off the boiler. In 1995 when I had everything installed oil was .60/gal., last fall it went up to 4.29/gal. Last year my electric bill was averaging $35-$45/ monthly, now it is over $100. I looked into a heat pump but the incentives were too minimal to pursue. I normally use under 300 kwh of electricity each month and use about 500 gallons of oil a year. I have 2 330 gallon oil tanks Propane use varies, an extended power outage will use more propane in the Generac. I am not doing any major changes to my systems. Let the next person that owns this place do them.

 

[davey7]

The push to remove gas, especially for heating, in existing buildings, is foolhardy and not realistic. Why? Retrofitting electric heating isn't as simple as popping in a bunch of baseboard heaters which won't be able to keep up with the heat loss.

That said, I've lived in cold climates with all electric heating, but it wasn't little baseboard units and the houses were far better insulated that standard North American construction.

I can see all electric in new construction with high insulation and quality controlled construction (not even to passive house standards) which don't need as much heating or cooling due to the construction.

 

[sudsmaster]

 

 

Good points, Davey.

 

However I think for existing construction in suburban areas where there is enough room for a heat exchange setup, going electric for heating might work well. At least in California. One drawback might be the cost of such a conversion. I've yet to see any reliable figures for that.

 

My own place might require some changes for such a setup, largely because the area around the home, other than the front yard, either has a lot of concrete driveway near the home, or a concrete fish pond, or a enclosed brick patio. The one exception might be a raised area adjacent to the fish pond behind the house where I planted a lovely navel orange tree, and which I'd rather not disturb.

 

[davey7]

In Sweden exhaust air heat pumps which provide hydronic radiant heat are fairly common, in places with no district heating (which is often backup). Or ground source heat pumps - often retrofitted on older houses.

There are plenty of ways to retrofit existing systems, but there seem to be lots of existing heat pump systems with forced air systems as it it, it can often be done easily. It just depends on the heat loss at the design temp - that's the big bugaboo with conversion.

 

[kb0nes]

This isn't a ban on Gas Stoves

This is a ban on all gas in new construction.

While the culture warriors are quick to talk about gas stove bans, has anyone ANYWHERE ever actually proposed banning gas stoves??

Such mock outrage

 

[appnut]

Yes, and it's pissing me off. If I ever build another house, I WILL investgate the potential of either gas being in the neighborhoo nearby or an inground butane tank. I'm noticing builders are offering gas grills of some sort included with their patio kitchens. I've lived all-electric for the past 37 years and I'm tired of it. And my partner would like to have at least gas cooktop. Having a gas oven and electric oven would be perfect.

 

[maytag85]

Reply #25

Bob, do you guys have solar or not?

 

[appnut]

No I don't have solar. A friend of mine who lives in a Dallas suburb, a buddy of his had just put solar panels on his roof. Two weeks later a monstrous hail storm came through one night and destroyed his brand new solar panels. So now the guy is stuck with paying for the original panels as well as his insurance deductible. He's bitter and angry. So much for effing green energy.

 

[ea56]

Thats a real shame Bob.  I would think that in areas of the country like Texas and the midwest where hail storms are common and frequent that people wouldn’t think solar panels were a good idea.  

 

I’m sorry that your friend had to learn such an expensive lesson.  The companies that sell and install these solar panels should either be making the panels with materials that can withstand a heavy hail storm or warning potential customers of the possibility of damage and/or total loss of the panels in the event of a big hail storm.  What a racket!

 

Green energy is our best hope for reversing Climate Change.  There are  other ways to generate clean energy besides solar power.

 

Eddie

 

[maytag85]

Reply #27

Ahh. That’s the thing with solar, it’s all good until a hail storm comes along especially with golf ball sized hail. More and more homes here in the southwest (Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California) are getting solar panels since the cost of electricity is getting more and more expensive each year, extreme weather events such as hail and tornadoes are very rare here so there’s no worries about them getting damaged from such weather events.

 

[DADoES]

 
There are some residences here with solar panels.  I have no info on how many.  One is up the road from me, I can see the house from my window.

Meta Platforms (aka Facebook) is an investor in a wind farm installation a bit east of town, planned to be finished by December.

 

[bradfordwhite]

#25 lol

"....I've lived all-electric for the past 37 years and I'm tired of it. And my partner would like to have at least gas cooktop. Having a gas oven and electric oven would be perfect...."

So Bob, you've <span style="text-decoration: underline;">lived</span> 37 years as a spoiled person without gas asphyxiation, explosion's, or having to spend big $$$ for repairs or replacement of gas appliances and...

you're "tired of it."

ha-RUMPHHHH!

 

Oh my.  Well if your concern is having a gas grill just buy one.  They often come ready for connecting to a 20 pound propane tank that can be easily exchanged out at an area propane dealer when needed.

 

Likewise if you want a gas stove in your kitchen and especially if it's next to or near an outside wall just get the gas stove/oven you want, drill a 3/4" hole through the wall, put the same 20 pound (or larger) propane tank outside and connect it to the stove through the wall.  Cooking appliances use the least amount of gas because they are so rarely used thus the tank should last months before needing to be switched out. 

 

A portable tank is the safest way of getting your fill of the gas lifestyle.  lol.   No need to wait or spend money on a gas lateral. Take that step down from electric. 

 

 

 

 

[bradfordwhite]

Hail damage is a rarity to solar panels.

Yes there are a few states like texas, oklahoma, and florida that are more likely to experience severe hail or wind damage but it isn't just solar panels that will be damaged by the likes of grapefruit sized hail. 

 

If you had a solar array professionally installed then one's home owners insurance would cover damages done to solar panels and of course the rest of the home.

Solar panels are relatively inexpensive and a $150 solar panel is easy to replace and afford.

 

Solar panels can withstand "abuse" such as medium size hail.  They are designed to be outside permanently.

 

----

With the OBVIOUS climate change that is impacting the planet, my question to those living the states mentioned above: WHY are you still living there?  It's only going to get worse. 

 

 

Does the recent sky rocketing home insurance and property taxes not mean anything to you? 

The last thing to be worried about is solar panels.

 

This upcoming hurricane season is showing all the signs of being THE WORST in history. 

The unusually warm water temps in the Atlantic ocean is not a good sign.

 

 

 







 

 

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/s...National Renewable,is less than five percent.

 

[robbinsandmyers]

This whole rush to convert the country to everything electric is nothing short of folly and fantasy. Our grid wont handle it in its present state, and we dont produce enough power to supply all the demand they want to burden it with. Its putting the cart before the horse and absolute stupidity to think it can be done in such a short time as they want. The people in CA can deal with their brown outs and imbecile governor telling them to conserve power on high demand days because they've shut down so many power plants and dropped their grid to its knees but Im not ready for the whole country to have rolling black outs because our system is over taxed. Not to mention when you're at the mercy of one energy source for your daily routine they'll have power over you and can ruin your life in an instant when they flick off the switch. Dont want to pay our insane rates? Fine! Have fun walking to work or riding your bike or the electric bus because you wont be able to charge your eco mobile, and have fun eating cold food because your induction or electric stove and microwave wont work as well, oh and you better buy a solar charger for your phone too. The electric clothes dryer? Better forget about that too. As well as the TV. And learn to live in the dark at night now you'll love it once you get used to it. Yeah sounds like a real sweet utopia they have in store for us!

 

[combo52]

Converting to an all electric future

Year over year for the last decade or more, this country is used less electricity, meanwhile, were producing more and more electricity with renewable wind and solar and we haven’t even scratch the surface yet.

When I was out in Northern California, nearly 1 in 20 cars are electric here in the DC area. We have a lot of electric cars and yet there’s no power shortages the system will adapt engineers are planning for it.

My electric costs here at home are only about $80 a month for people that know me this house has a lot of electrical appliances, I do still use natural gas for heating hot water heating and clothes drying. I pay about $100 a month for natural gas. I currently have two full-size freezers and three refrigerators running all the time all inside cooking is electric I have five gas dryers, one gas range outside two gas, water heaters, and two gas furnaces.

As time goes on, I will replace air conditioners with heat pumps to reduce the amount of gas I use.

I’m not the least bit worried about the world running out of electricity.

John

 

[bradfordwhite]

#33

"convert the country to everything electric" ?

Everything is ALREADY electric and good for all of us. No complaints.

As was pointed out above, electricity is in ALL homes already in the U.S.

Gas is in only 55% of homes and typically only fuels 3-4 appliances and usually can't even operate with out electricity there to baby it and manage and control said appliances. It's ridiculous.

Gas is a dirty, inefficient, limited use, explosive form of sustenance that never should have been piped to residential properties.

The costly aging network of pipes that distributes said gases frequently leaks and needs replacement.

Ignore the criminals who have a vested interest in oil companies spreading their lies.
Fossil fuels are increasingly difficult to mine and refine. They are dirty to refine and pollute heavily.

These refinery disasters happen so often in texas, and the state is so corrupt that I don't think the people there even realize how screwed they are living in that state. It's pathetic.

There was once a time when humans burned whale oil for gas lamps. When we burned wood and coal for heat. When we used horses and carriages for transportation.

We can and should be grateful to past technologies that allowed us to exist, but accept that their times have come and gone and move on.

 

[48bencix]

The other thing

The other thing is that all fossil fuels are running out, and we will convert to renewables over time. The real question is: Is there enough fossil fuel to manufacture all of the solar panels and wind generators that will be needed world wide? After we convert to all renewable, new solar panels have to be manufactured because they only last 25 years.

I tried to calculate this once using data available on fossil fuels still left, but all of the zeros frustrated me.

Fossil fuels are free and that has always been their advantage. Only requiring extraction, refining and movement. Renewables cost a lot and need maintenance, and as mentioned a huge investment in our electric grid. It is happening gradually.

 

[good-shepherd]

all fossil fuels are running out,

BS

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/07...a-to-boost-economies-help-meet-global-demand/

"Equatorial Guyana and Suriname—situated side-by-side and bounded by the equator and Atlantic Ocean — have combined oil reserves estimated to be 17 billion barrels of oil equivalent. Together this represents the world’s largest oil discovery in the last two decades. Some call it the “the most promising oil discovery hotspot on earth.” Others say it is “the most exciting oil frontier on earth.” In addition, there are gas reserves of more than 30 trillion cubic feet".

https://geology.com/articles/utica-shale/

"The Marcellus Shale has become one of the world's largest natural gas fields, and the Utica Shale - located a few thousand feet below the Marcellus - has become a new drilling target.

"The United States Geological Survey's mean estimates of undiscovered, technically recoverable unconventional resources indicate that the Utica Shale contains about 38 trillion cubic feet of natural gas."

-Just to name a few.

 

[maytag85]

Reply #37

There’s also the theory of abiotic oil which means the earth is producing oil from hydrocarbons deep within the earth.

 

[retro-man]

Electric not always safe.

In a city not far away from me they had a large surge of power and several houses had massive fires in them. Some totaled the house but all needed fire department response. The least will be all electric wires will need to be replaced in these houses. Things can happen no matter what type of fuel you use.

Jon