NYY Article on Using Cold Water For Laundry

[dirtybuck]

Something NOT Stated In The Article

Nothing was mentioned as to whether Tide Coldwater powder or liquid gave better results in cold water. If I were to buy that formula of Tide, it would be the powder (but I do use liquid on an occasion or two or for treating some stains).

(Did anyone else notice the techs shirt color went along well with the Tide logo?)

 

[whirlcool]

We like our laundry even better when it has been washed warm/warm or hot/warm.
The only way to get us to stop is to put some kind of additive in the laundry detergent that will dye your clothes red if it encounters hot water.

I see it coming now!

As Will Rodgers said "Thank god we are not getting all the government we are paying for!".

 

[paulc]

I am all for doing my bit for the environment and have tried cold water washing with detergents specifically designed for the purpose. I have no idea what our cold water temperature is in Scotland, all I know is it hurts your teeth in the depths of winter! I realise that these detergents have formulations to mimic hotter temperatures and on the release of Ariel Excel Gel washed at 30 deg for a few months. I found the results to be ok, stains gone, clothes smelled clean, washer was always fresh but after a while I thought all clothing looked "dull" which I found worrying, especially as the detergent in question was loaded with OBA's. I have since gone back to my old habits. Sturdy white cotton gets washed at 75 deg c or 60deg c, Less sturdy whited get washed at 50 deg c, Light colours get 40deg c and darks get 40 deg c ( sorry I have no idea what these temps are on F ). I find I get better results using a short option wash cycle with a higher temp than I did with extended wash times and a 30 deg wash.

I am well aware that many countries wash in cold water and if there were a detergent but their "cold" is more like our 30deg washes here. I would be quite happy to wash in cold if I got great results. I know many people say that body oils etc cannot be got rid of in cold water, but that's what the surfucants in cold water detergents do. As for germ killing...yes in some circumstances it is true but as mentioned by an Australian fellow on here, no one has ever died from bacteria on clothing.

 

[westie2]

Paul here they are converted to F

 

75C = 16F

60C = 140F

50C - 127F

40C - 104F

30C = 86F

 

The wash temps you use are like what I use.

Had to lots of conversions when programming for oil exploration in the North Sea.

 

Here is a conversion table link.

http://www.celsius-fahrenheit.com/

 

[ronhic]

Talk about a bacteria obsessed population....

Provided the actual soiling is removed - dirt, oils, deodourants etc, don't be worried about the germs or bacteria. Afterall, our mouths are full of bacteria and our bodies breeding grounds for them - most of them useful to us.

 

Plus, just think about some of the things we've put in our mouths or the places we've put them before getting all worked up about germs!

 

[strongenough78]

My Mom would use hot and warm washes so much that she would sometimes have to wait for the water heater to catch up. The only thing she would wash in cold were dark colors and even then that wasn't often, usually it was with new stuff so they wouldn't bleed into our old clothes. The Whirlpool she had, had hot/warm hot/cold warm/cold and cold/cold. She would usually switch to hot/warm for a rinse cycle when she used a warm wash.

 

[launderess]

Hot Water & *Killing* Germs

Just as an aside, and not picking on anyone in particular but we've been down that path before...

Of all the most common household "germs" the easiest to kill via thermal methods would be E Coli which requires water temps of about 165F held for ten minutes. Everything else goes up and can require temps >180F for twenty minutes to get shot of. That is simply not going to happen with domestic hot water supplies of today.

Back in the days when water heaters/boilers routinely were set at 180F in American households one *might* have gotten somewhere close to 160F, but not today. Of course washing machines with internal heaters (mainly European models) used to and or still can reach boil wash temps but those are rare on this side of the pond.

Even with internal heaters in order to "kill" germs the wash bath must rise very quickly to the desired temperature. Otherwise bacteria and what not simply begin adapting to the changes in "climate" and launch various defenses. Some will be killed off true, but the rest will simply wait for things on the ground to improve and come back to life. Even better for them is that the field has been cleared of weaker *germs* and they now have the place to themselves to live on.

The best most can hope for is that the mechanical action of washing laundry coupled with soaps/detergents will remove germs and flush them down the drain. True they will still be alive but none the less the laundry is sanitised enough for all normal purposes. It is the shifting of biofilm one wants, that is where *germs* live and find their food.

Alkaline substances such as all true soaps and many powdered detergents also go along way in deactivating germs. Like humans most bacteria/viruses prefer a neutral to slightly acidic pH range. Once you start going up that scale conditions for living become more difficult and things die off.

 

[lordkenmore]

Perhaps I am too casual, but germs aren't a huge worry for most of my laundry. If the item comes out clean and smelling fresh, that is usually good enough. I use at least some heated water--I never go below about 80 F.

I do worry about kitchen linens (where I've been known to regularly use bleach) and hand towels. Hand towels are the biggest pain--I want them reasonably clean, since I'm using them to dry my hands, often before eating. But I can't do much beyond wash in the hottest water (low 100 F. range) and dry either in the sun or in the dryer...and hope for the best.

I think I've said this before, but can't recall exactly what I said, and don't have access to the archives. But I have some concerns about Tide Cold Water, the big name in cold water detergent in the US:
1. It is not cheap. A lot of the cost savings of washing in cold could be wiped out...or at least diminished.
2. I have concerns about it possibly causing problems with skin issues. A lot of people have problems with Tide, and I wonder if Cold Water Tide wouldn't possibly cause even more problems since everything presumably gets stronger to compensate the cold water.
3. And with cold water washing in general, there can be a real problem with "build up" in hidden parts of the washer.

 

[launderess]

Tide Detergent Isn't Cheap

Don't know about elsewhere but Tide liquid is on sale almost every week at one shop or another locally.

 

[kenmore71]

Back to my question from earlier today:
Has P & G stated anyplace what temperature they consider "cold" water to be?
Is there a temperature that is "too cold" for even Cold Water Tide? (i.e. 40 degrees Farenheit?)

I, like our illustrious webmaster, have switched to using warm RINSES in the winter here in Minneapolis because our incoming water is so cold. When the incoming water reaches 60 degrees in May or June I will switch back to rinsing in cold water.

As aside, I love playing with old US toploading machines with actual thermostatic water valves that give you 100 degree water whenever you select warm.

I've even considered the idea of installing a tempering valve on the COLD water line to my washing mashines to make sure that the cold water is always 65 - 70 degrees in the winter.

 

[hunter]

The question I have is...

...what is the environmental impact of these detergents?

Is there more impact from the brighteners, the enzymes, and the proprietary other items, than my Calben pure soap detergent ( which I think is soap and asking soda) that gets clothes really clean if you wash darks at 60C and whites at 70 or 90, and woolens at 40c?

I buy my detergent by the 25 pound box and use one tablespoon per load. The enviro impact of that I'd low per load, but what about this tide ? Does it biodegrade or is it toxic? How much petroleum does it take to make and to distribute these relatively small containers?

Just curious. Few feel good environmental things seem to take the whole picture into consideration.

 

[filterflo58]

i dont even rinse in cold water,it doesnt remove detergent as well as a nice warm rinse..
wont happen.

 

[lordkenmore]

what is the environmental impact of these detergents?

That's something else I've wondered about.

Also I wonder about health issues--is there going to be some health problem crop up due to long term skin contact with the residue of some "miracle" chemical that miraculously cleans in even ice cold water?

 

[launderess]

Cal Ben "Seafoam" Laundry "Soap"

Is not a pure soap product.

According to their own website the product contains wetting agents (surfactants usually non-ionic), washer protection agents (silicates),and dispersing agents.

What you've got a hold of there is a soap *based* laundry product but that is nothing new. White King had a similar product for ages before that company went belly up. Have a box of it in my stash.

 

[sudsmaster]

It's a rare occasion when I wash any laundry in tap cold.

I usually wash things like throw rugs and perm press in warm - which in the Neptune is 105F. I figure this isn't much above body temp and if the fabrics can't take body temp then they shouldn't be worn in the first place.

Otherwise stuff like towels and sheets get washed hot - which in the Neptune is 130F. The tidy whities etc get washed in the Miele 1918A at 160F. Although it seems to me they get just as clean in the Neptune at 130F, although I've been known to "trick" it into an extra long wash cycle by programming in a hot pre-wash, and the longest wash cycle (34 min) as well.

Where is the energy savings if someone must wash a load twice in cold to get it clean?

One note about the hand washing story: yes, hands wash a lot faster in warm water. However, one's body temp will warm up a water and soap slurry on the hands rather quickly, so I find I can still wash my hands in tap cold and get them reasonably clean. And I do that frequently since the hot tap in the kitchen takes a while to warm up after a period of non-use, and I don't like running the tap forever just to wash hands that are already relatively clean.

 

[sudsmaster]

PS- "NYY Article"?

When did the Yankees start writing articles on laundry?

;-)

 

[hunter]

gotcha

I couldn't remember. I DO wash in pure soap (sometimes). In any case, it isn't really harsh...and it does seem to clean well.

(Their bar soap can't be beat either).

 

[launderess]

To Be Clear

Never meant to imply there is anything wrong with using true soaps for laundry. Like yourself have tons of the stuff in my stash (Ivory Snow, Kirkman's Borax bars, P&G White, Fels Naptha, etc...), and yes all clean most laundry quite well.

Long as one understands what one is doing and the limitations of pure soap for wash day it's all good. Still wouldn't trade modern detergents nor give them up entirely for the use of the thing.

Also understand whilst detergents can be pH neutral to slightly acidic or alkaline all soaps are by nature base. While some maybe more "neutral" than others simply due to their chemical make-up soaps will have some degree of alkalinity.

Finally there is pure soaps do not entirely rinse free of fabrics. There are things one can do to lessen the residue but traces always remain. This is why advertisers such as P&G made claims their soap products washed "softer than detergents" or had "built in fabric softener".

 

[miele_ge]

maybe drifting a bit but do any modern detergents not have O

Just noticed our towels (white and off white) have the phrase "use a detergent that doesn't have Optical Brighteners" Have been washing them in Persil for a few years and haven't noticed any ill effect. I have heard that OBAs can cause problems with dark colors - not sure why.

 

[launderess]

Optical Brightening/Bluing Agents

Are becoming increasingly normal standard in *all* detergents on both sides of the pond, including those for colours. Don't know what bright blub decided this but one can only imagine it is some sort of effort to counter just how badly some modern detergents clean. I mean if things are blindingly bright they must be clean even if the effect comes from chemicals rather than actual results.

IIRC in the United States many "green" detergents do not contain OBAs, nor do certain types of "Cheer". On both sides of the pond most if not all detergents for "darks" (Miele FEWA/Black Magic", Woolite for Darks, etc...) do not contain bluing agents.

Regarding the use of bluing agents and ecru/off white/champange,natural coloured linens/items:

Brightening agents can acutally cause such things to look "bleached" with long term use. Many European linens of such shades have explict directions on their care tags about not using detergents with bluing agents.