Obscene images confiscated from Abercrombie & Fitch store, manager charged

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jonv112

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By Steve Stone
The Virginian-Pilot
© February 3, 2008

VIRGINIA BEACH

Police, saying they were responding to citizen complaints, carted away two large promotional photographs from the Abercrombie & Fitch store in Lynnhaven Mall on Saturday and cited the manager on obscenity charges.

Adam Bernstein, a police spokesman, said the seizure and the issuance of the summons came only after store management had not heeded warnings to remove the images.

The citation was issued under City Code Section 22.31, Bernstein said, which makes it a crime to display "obscene materials in a business that is open to juveniles." He did not say what was being done with the pictures and when the manager, whose name was not released, is scheduled to appear in court.

The manager, reached by telephone, declined to comment on the incident Saturday, saying that he was conferring with and waiting for guidance from Abercrombie corporate officials.

The mural-like black-and-white photographs were taken from the store at midafternoon.

Bernstein confirmed that one depicts three shirtless young men from the back, walking through a field. The man in the lead appears to be about to pull up his jeans, which have slipped down enough to reveal his upper buttocks.

The same image is displayed on the Abercrombie Web site.

The other image is of a woman who is topless and whose "breast is displayed with her hand covering just the nipple portion," Bernstein said. "You could still pretty much see the rest of the breast."

The seizure was "prompted by several customer complaints, and the management of Abercrombie & Fitch was notified of those complaints," Bernstein said.

The company's corporate offices in New Albany, Ohio, were closed Saturday and no officials could be reached for comment.

Bernstein said the summons for a Class One misdemeanor was issued to the manager because there is no legal way to issue a summons to a corporate entity in such circumstances. The manager was not arrested but faces a fine of up to $2,000 and as much as a year in jail, if convicted.

Bernstein said that in a meeting last week with store management, the officer - who is assigned to routine patrol of the mall - said he understood it was a corporate decision as to what would be displayed in the stores. But he explained that that didn't exempt the local store from complying with the city code.

Bernstein said management was told specifically: "We want those advertising signs taken down."

When the officer returned to the store Saturday, Bernstein said, he found that the pictures were still in place.

Abercrombie & Fitch has earned a reputation for its risqué catalogues and promotional photography featuring scantily clothed models.

In 2003, the company halted publication of its 7-year-old A&F Quarterly catalog because of complaints about sexually suggestive photographs by award-winning photographer Bruce Weber.

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VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia (Feb. 6) - Abercrombie & Fitch Co. said Monday that authorities overreacted when they confiscated two display photos of scantily clad men and a woman from a clothing store and cited the manager on a misdemeanor obscenity charge. A city official later said the charge would be dropped.

A&F web site
Abercrombie.com

One of the images that Virginia Beach police confiscated on Saturday is shown on Abercrombie & Fitch's web site.
"The marketing images in question show less skin than you see any summer day at the beach. And certainly less than the plumber working on your kitchen sink," the company, based in New Albany, Ohio, said in a statement.

One photograph showed three shirtless young men, with one man's upper buttocks showing. The other image was of a woman whose breast was mostly exposed, authorities said.

What's Your Take?

Deputy City Attorney Mark Stiles said the charge would be dropped even though the photos might technically meet the nudity portion of city code that makes it a crime to display "obscene materials in a business that is open to juveniles."

But he said it would be difficult to meet the other standards of the law: that the display had to appeal to prurient interests, lack redeeming artistic merit and be offensive to prevailing community standards.

"You might see that typical vision walking down a street," Stiles said of the photo with the men.

Abercrombie & Fitch, a clothing chain popular with teens, has earned a reputation for its risque catalogs and promotional photography featuring scantily clothed models.

In 2003, the company halted publication of its seven-year-old A&F Quarterly catalog. There had been complaints about sexually suggestive photographs, though Abercrombie spokesman Tom Lennox on Monday would not concede that that was the reason the catalog's U.S. run ended. "The Quarterly just ran its course, and it was time for a new direction," Lennox said.

Virginia Beach police issued the obscenity summons Saturday after Abercrombie management did not heed warnings to remove the images from the Lynnhaven Mall store after some customers complained, police spokesman Adam Bernstein said.

Bernstein said police had charged the manager because there is no legal way to issue a summons to a corporate entity in such circumstances. If convicted, the manager faces a fine up to $2,000 and as much as a year in jail.

The manager declined to comment.

In 2004, the retailer agreed to pay $50 million to settle a lawsuit that accused the company of promoting whites over minorities and cultivating a virtually all-white image.

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I don't know if you guys heard of this already, but I was just wondering what you guys think of this. I shop at Abercrombie & Fitch a lot, but my parents don't seem to mind (I'm 15). Most of the discussions I've read have been from a younger crowd biased towards Abercrombie, so I want to see what an older, more mature crowd would think of it. I actually quite like the marketing. I think its fun. What about you? If you had(or have) kids, would you let them shop in this store?
 
Just last week I was at The Woodlands Mall just north of Houston. It's a rather upscale place. I passed the A&F store and while I found those huge photos to be rather eyebrow raising, but I didn't find them obscene.
But I do find it rather disturbing that A&F would use such images in a store known for selling to "tweens". I think it's this kind of marketing that feeds into all the Britney Spears/Paris Hilton type of hype. Why don't they use photos of well established models wearing A&F clothing or sports figures?
Fully clothed can be sexy too, it's all in the way it's shot.
The way some kids dress nowadays, esp the girls is amazing. Just 10 years ago or so they would be considered "working girls" dressed the way they do. Absolutely nothing is left to the imagination.
 
They dress like 'hos, but get offended if treated like one!

If I had tried to dress like some of these kids when I was that young (early teens) my parents would have flipped-out. It was just NOT an option for me back in those days----period.

I think the scantily clad people are mostly walking around the malls, not in photos on the wall.
Actually, if they are in their twenties or so---- IMO the scenery can be rather pleasant to the eye. I think in my twenties I used to run around showing a bit of skin now and then--- tight Levi's jeans with a little worn spot/tear here and there, with an athletic shirt about three inches too short----but in those days I had the figure for it!(But not around my parents!)

But the kids under 16 years old----- alarming---- inasmuch as there are so many freaks out there today.
I remember what I was like at that age and I wish I was half that smart today -----'cause I just knew EVERYTHING back then!

I just don't know what parents can do these days to keep their children from dressing in such provacative ways especially when so very young!

What freaks me out is that you see people who don't have the figure for it trying to mimick that 'ho ----whatshername---Brittany, and their big fat belly is hanging out! Doesn't anyone have enough courage to tell these folks they look terrible that way?! Or do they just not have enough sense to know any better? Crazy man!

I think if I had kids I would have to move to some remote village in Alaska somewhere. Lawdy, Lawdy.
 
Kyrie Eleison, Kyrie Eleison, Kryire Eleison....

My mother was sitting in church and felt her skirt had opened by the slit (of the skirt) a bit too much so she shifted her weight to close up shop a bit. Next to her sat the stereotypical Greek Yiayia [granny] (the Italians have them too) Head to toe in black with the black schmata over her head and wrinkles the size and depth of a butt-crack on her face.She said the equivalent of (idiomatic expressions don't translate literally): Doll, don't you worry; you are just fine. If you still have it, flaunt it. Mother Toggle said that she nearly lost it, right then and there.

I'm sorry to have to say the Puritans really left their mark. Our society's hang-ups over art/ nudity/sexuality is at times a bit ridiculous. Add to that the mentality of the bible-belt............

Teach your darling DNA mutations.. er replications... that this is advertising that is MEANT to attract attention, and that it is not acceptable for real peorple in everyday life to conduct themselves that way. End of story.

As far as charging the manger, that is scapegoatism IMO.
There is REAL crime going on all over the place. THIS is what we are persuing?

The below advertisement was shown mainstream, IIRC, in France. And there really WAS nothing left to the imagination....

2-7-2008-06-41-27--Toggleswitch.jpg
 
I will admit, I don't get out much. My kids are young (5 and 9), so a lot of this isn't an issue for me........yet.

This past Friday night, I went to the Wolfchase mall in Memphis for the first time in recent memory. I was really surprised by how the teens looked. I was a teen in the early to mid eighties. Granted, we wore some wild colors, but overall, the styles were pretty conservative. I mean, what is white socks with black penny loafers compared to your pants hanging around your knees with boxers showing. First of all, in those days, you wouldn't have been caught dead in boxers. I saw the picture at the A&F store and thought it was toned down from what I have seen there in the past. I didn't have a problem with my children seeing it. You can see worse on any beach anywhere. When we were in Gulf Shores last year, there was a guy in the house next to us that was parading around in a thong. Thank God, he had the body for it, but still, I don't want to see that, and I don't my children to either.

I have a problem with the Taliban-esque morality police trying to censor everything.
 
#2

Is this any worse than what is on TV every day? Do any of these high and mighty people watch the Fox network? Even their cartoons have parental advisories. While it's true that parents can censor television a little easier than what is plastered on a store window at the mall, I have always believed that parents have the ultimate responsibility to TEACH their children that they will see and hear many things that are not necessarily in line with their belief system and instead of using these opportunities to teach right from wrong as they see fit, they go crazy and blame the store/network/person, etc. You cannot protect children from every evil in the world, and I think it's foolish to try. When these over-protected children do finally get out into the world on their own, they won't know how to cope with any of it and end up starring in a ChiChi LaRue film. Well, maybe not that extreme, but you see what I mean. You keep the bad things hidden and out of sight, they'll want them even more. "I forbid you to see that (person) anymore." Guess who they'll want to spend their time with. Parenting is common sense, not an excuse for militant activism.

2-7-2008-07-21-18--gansky1.jpg
 
I gotta say, I don't get it. This is worse than other A&f stuff? This is the company that regularly has incredibly hot guys in their underpants in the store, right out where everyone can see?

I don't see any genitals here. You might see a breast in the mall as mom feeds her baby, and come on, a buttcrack? Have these people met any plumbers?
 
It's things like this that make me embarrassed to be an American. Having grown up in a small town of like 8,000 people, Everyone knew everyone. I was raised with the good ole common sense rule. Does anyone in America have common sense anymore???? When I was a flight attendant, my very first flight, fresh out of training was to Frankfurt Germany. When I arrived and got checked into the hotel for layover, I stripped down and crawled into bed to sleep. I turned on the TV. The very first thing I watched was a commercial which turned out to be for a washing machine. the commercial was this. A guy walks in to a room (where the washer was) totally grungy and dirty. Strips totally naked placing each piece of clothing into the machine as he takes it off. They showed him totally naked (basicly from a sort of side view) and he turns on the machine. They faded to black and then script (which was in german). Why is it that here in america we teach hate, shame, guilt, and to sue everyone for anything at any cost. American's are so hung up about sex, but yet we want to know what goes on in everyone else's bedroom but don't want others to know what goes on in our own. Humans, by nature, are sexual beings. Why we are so hung about about seeing a top of a butt in a photo as shown above is so rediculous to me. Don't get me wrong I'm not say everyone and particularly here on this forum. I am saying everyone as our socity as a whole. Ganksy1 said it best in his last post.

Off soap box now, so to speak
 
I don't find the skin element of the pix offensive but am wondering what they are trying to suggest. Like, is that a partial view of a female on the far left, and if so, what does it imply to show three males hiking up their pants and walking away from her?

I agree with those who state that Americans are very screwed up when it comes to "obscenity" and sexual freedom. Being a gay man, it's very difficult to find anything too obscene for my taste or a level of sexual freedom that's over the top, so to speak. Even here on AW the membership ranges from mild to wild when it comes to the physical aspects of our respective pursuits. While I'm an unapologetic member of the wild bunch I still understand that a certain level of decency needs to be maintained in what our youth is exposed to. Personally, I find the idolization of criminals/criminal behavior with the rap & hip hop performers (sorry, they are NOT artists) to be much more worrisome than exposing a little bit of skin. If there is anything parents ought to be concerned with it's the rap/hip hop scene that encourages youth to embrace the lifestyle of thugs, not what A&F is displaying in their windows.
 
I guess what confuses me most about these images is that I'm being told that they are provocative and sexy, yet I never feel as much as a stir from them.
 
Scott, I agree. It's only those who are frustrated due to suppressing their own sexuality who find these images provocative. It makes one wonder who has the so-called dirty minds, the prudes or the so-called perverts. The views towards nudism aren't much different. The unenlightened equate nudity with sexual activity. Go to any nude beach and not only are you unlikely to find any sexual activity, but you will not find any men in even the slightest state of arousal. I'm not saying no sex ever happens in a nudist environment, but I am saying that generally speaking, you would be hard pressed to find such activity happening out in the open. Private matters are still addressed in private, even in a nudist situation.

As I stated above, parents ought to be more concerned with the fact that rappers' fashion sense stems from prison-issued clothing that's too large and baggy. These thugs are glorifying the prison life (and look) and the behaviors that get you there. Anything that makes the prison life appear attractive or otherwise promotes it should be a much more serious concern for parents than a litte extra skin in an A&F ad.
 
God could this whole thing be any more pathetic? The people of Virginia should be outraged. I’m mean really, who in their right mind would find that silly picture obscene? The worse part of this whole thing is if the guys in that picture were fully dressed, but they were carrying guns no one would have blinked an eye, that is what is truly obscene in my opinion.
 
Hey Gyrafoam,

I see it every day with the kids on the bus. And it's not just middle-schoolers (maybe 11-14). I've seen kindergarteners dolled up like that with belly shirts and all!

And they wonder where some of the pedophelia comes from.

Chuck
 
~Private matters are still addressed in private, even in a nudist situation.

American friend of mine lived in Sweden for a brief period. Grandma nude in the sauna with nude daddy and nude daughter. No one even blinks an eye. Nudity is nudity there. Nothing more nothing less.

In Greece you can show nearly anything you want in a general-audience movie regarding nudity and sex and human relations, as long as it is tastefully done. It is, AFTER ALL, natural and human-nature.

You may NOT, however, show ANY movie where the criminals get away with crime. Sends out the wrong message.
 
If you think the A&F ad is something, look at the front page of today's (02/07/08) NYT Style Section for the article on the new look in skinny, almost emaciated male models. The kid on the left shows far more, make that amazingly more, than I thought any regular circulation paper would publish.
 
Geez . . .

I am sometimes amazed at what upsets people! I wouldn't think anything about that ad one way or the other, except that it's kind of silly the way the one kid is pulling his pants up.

What is sad is the amount of time and money the city and police force spent to hassle the store manager, instead of spending it on solving real crimes. If I were a resident there, I'd be steamed.
 
Having a teenaged daughter, I have to admit, I did the parental censorship; and yes, sometimes I went overboard with it. But, in reality, it boils down to one thing: common-sense..... What do you want your children to be exposed to? The real world? Or some parental-controlled/censored environment, that prevents the child from growing/learning?

Having a rebellious child, if something caused a strong reaction from me, she wanted it all the more! As a parent, I had to repeatedly asked myself: is it harmful, toxic, illegal and will it leave lasting scars (physical/emotional)? If not, leave it alone.

A child learns the stove is hot on their own. By a parent removing the stove from the kitchen, so the child doesn't burn themselves is counter-productive.... guess what the child does when the parent isn’t looking?? OUCH.

A picture of half naked men or women, in a “progressive” clothing store, is just part of the mystic/atmosphere. You have to expect it. If the parent had issues with the pictures, instead of having the picture remove....here’s a thought: be a parent and control what store he/she goes into. Trust me, if the child wants to shop in that store, no parent will ever stop them (even by complaining to the authorities and having provocative pictures removed).... they will find a way.
 

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