Ok Boys, Start Drooling. Cheverlot Unveils 2010 Camero

[petek]

I never like them or the Firebird, like riding a buckboard and the absolute worst were those awful ones with the big firebird decals on the hood. Can't tell from the pics but it doesn't look as true to the original as I'd have thought Now I have to say when we took the dodge in for a tuneup last week they had a new Challenger in the showroom and it was a good repro of the original. Worth looking at but again not my cuppa tea

 

[48bencix]

Too Bad

It is too bad that GM choose to build the Camaro on a 4000 lb. platform. When the Camaro was first built it weighed closer to 3000 lbs. The Mustang is much lighter. If GM had designed a lighter mid-size platform for RWD it could be used for many cars. They state that RWD is 1 mpg less, but this wouldn’t be true if the car was lighter.

The Pontiac G8 and Dodge Challenger have the same problem, way too heavy to be sporty “pony” cars. The Mustang is closer to the right weight, but getting too heavy too.

I see no reason to not have a 3200 lb car that could be a 2-door coupe, 4-door sedan, and hopefully a wagon and 2 or 4 door El-camino type vehicle. With different drive trains and the hybrid possibility, 35 mpg could be a very real possibility, as could a V-8 version with higher gas consumption.

 

[saltysam]

SHARP!!!

IMO the car looks AWESOME! Now if GM would just do a retro of the '64 Impala I'd be dancing in the streets..... (naked)! lol

 

[brisnat81]

GM Do have a Mid Weight Mid-large RWD platform

Its called the Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8.

It weighs in at around 3200lbs averages 22MPG in the V6 form.

Its a pity that Ford and GM in the US are too blind to look at other countries for innovation. The inline 6 in the large Ford sedans here, is being universally lorded as Ford Australia's best and is the culmination of 48 years development. They have finally perfected the design, however in 2009 the engine will be canned for the standard Ford V6 that rattles around in the US.

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[gizmo]

GM DID look to Australia for the Camaro - it was engineered here by the same people who designed the Commodore.

GM HQ have nominated Holden as their "global centre of excellence" for rear-wheel drive cars. That means all future GM passenger cars with rear wheel drive will be engineered here.

The Aussie Commodore is already exported to the US where it is badged as the Pontiac G8.
My understanding, though I'm not sure where I read this, is that the idea to resurrect the Camaro model came first from Australia, Holden engineers toyed with converting the Commodore platform into a 21st century Camaro. They convinced headquarters it was a good idea and the car was given the go-ahead, Holden were disappointed that the car is to be assembled in Canada, they were hoping it would be assembled here for export to US and Canada. I think the styling was part Aussie and part USA.

There have been Camaro development "mules" and prototypes being spotted here for about 2 years.

Chris.

PS about that Ford 6 cyl engine - "the culmination of 48 years of development" means it is basically a 48 year old design. It has had a lot of change and refinement over the years but at some point they need to start with a fresh sheet of paper. The ford inline 6 is ready to be pensioned off. (though I am no fan of V6s,they are inherently rough compared to an inline 6.) Since the EA Falcon of the late 80s that engine has been notorious for head gasket problems, every new model they have claimed that it is now fixed and time proves it it to still be a problem. In 5 years we will know if the current ones are really fixed. I think Ford Australia cars are a real disappointment now, quality has really slipped behind the competition. I used to be a real Ford fan as a kid, my Grandfather worked for Ford. I love the style of the Territory but the reliability still seems to be a problem, based on what I read in the car pages each week.

Chris.

 

[iheartmaytag]

It's pretty, But. . .

I don't buy GM cars. I will wait for the Challenger to come down the pike from Chrysler.

 

[nmaineman36]

Yeah its pretty but not for $100,000 bucks. I would never buy a car like that its not practical and I am not in the need for a "chick magnet". Not to sound like a cliche but guys that buy cars like that either have a teenie peenie or they have hormones a ragin. And to me and its my opinion you can keep anything from GM and Chrysler...they are not reliable.And the Chrysler part is from experience with my partner's PT Crap Cruiser. It seems like every other month we spend another 2 grand for stuff that either falls off or goes wrong. My car a Toyota Camry still runs flawlessly after 10 years.

 

[whirlcool]

While sitting the other day in the local BMW dealer service center waiting for our $900.00 brake job to be completed, I read an article which stated that soon almost all the cars in the GM Pontiac lineup will be Holdens from Australia.

If you look at this new Camaro and compare it to the latest Mustang there are similarities in the way they look.

I used to have both a 63'Chevy SS Convertible and a 67' Chevy SS Convert. Both were wonderful cars. But I don't think GM has made anything worthwhile since about 1976 or so.

We carefully maintain our cars and keep them until the wheels fall off. Usually when we buy a new car, the one being replaced has hit 200K.

While the Mustang is not very reasonably priced, it will still be a choice of many Daddies to buy for their spoiled kids.

 

[petek]

challenger website

http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/

 

[hydralique]

Quality Matters . . .

Certainly this isn't the car that Chevy needs right now, but it's nice to see them try and breathe some exitement into their lineup after so many years of figuring that there was no need to care about any of their cars outside of the Corvette.

48bencix hit the nail on the head about the weight. The two things that ruin mileage are weight and aerodynamics. The Camaro is low enough to have decent aero, but the weight will kill the city mileage regardless of the engine. GM is already filthy with overweight vehicles that get bad city mileage.

What will ultimately make or break this car is quality. The old F-body cars (Camaro/Firebird) generally had the worst quality of any North American GM platform when they were built in Van Nuys. So GM moved the line to Canada, and it just got worse. A good buddy of mine has one of the last Firebirds from ‘99 or do. He custom ordered it as a Formula with all the Trans-Am performance goodies but without the decals and hood scoops. It is cared for meticulously with most all services done at the original dealership, and they know how fussy he is. The car now has a little over 100,000 miles on it and looks maybe two or three years old. In spite of this, it has so many failures that my friend’s accountant actually recommended he replace it due to the costs! That’s not going to happen because my buddy already has other cars and really loves driving the Firebird, but most owners will just dump such a car as an uneconomical money pit and buy a Toyota, and give GM the reputation it has sadly earned.

 

[tuthill]

YUCK, a modern GM. GM after the 70's = a joke.

 

[perc-o-prince]

THAT's a Camaro?

Sorry. Last time a Camaro looked really good was the 3rd generation Camaro, to which my 1987 belonged (first gen was still the best). Extremely comfortable ride, driver's-side legroom for days, and power when you needed it. What a car! I'd love to say I wish I had it now, but the arthritis in the knees wouldn't appreciate me! I took that car to 150+k miles. Unheard of as far as I knew! 4th gen went too curvy and sleek.

And someone mentioned the new Mustang? First problem is that it's a Ford (IMHO, sorry Ford lovers). And, the new version is probably the most uncomfortable car I've driven in recent memory. I'm sure the original Mustang was much better.

Chuck (mine had the plain hood, not like the one below)

 

[frigilux]

Chuck--- You had a 3rd Gen., too? They were great Camaro's, weren't they? Mine was a little darker than this and had gold rather than silver ground effects. Sigh. I'd feel self-conscious driving it now, but back when I was in my mid 20's...

 

[perc-o-prince]

Hey Gene,

What a great car! Mine was red w/ camel interior. Nothing special like Z or Iroc, but Rich's parent's bought me aftermarket louvers for the rear window for Christmas. I loved that car! Amazing how much room they had inside!

Chuck

 

[jeffg]

> And someone mentioned the new Mustang? First problem is that it's a Ford (IMHO, sorry Ford lovers). And, the new version is probably the most uncomfortable car I've driven in recent memory. I'm sure the original Mustang was much better.

Mustang bucket seats have never been a good fit for tall and/or large people. But the new version actually has more front leg, shoulder and headroom than the original. Hips are out of luck.

2008:

Internal dimensions:
Front headroom (inches): 38.6
Rear headroom (inches): 34.7
Front hip room (inches): 53.6
Rear hip room (inches): 46.8
Front leg room (inches): 42.7
Rear leg room (inches): 30.3
Front shoulder room (inches): 55.4
Rear shoulder room (inches): 53.4

1965:

Internal dimensions:
Front headroom (inches): 37.0
Rear headroom (inches): 35.6
Front hip room (inches): 54.7
Rear hip room (inches): 50.9
Front leg room (inches): 41.8
Rear leg room (inches): 29.7
Front shoulder room (inches): 53.8
Rear shoulder room (inches): 53.9

 

[countryford]

eh

I've never been a big fan of GM, especially chevys. Never had good luck with them. And I can't stand when they try to bring back cars that claim to have the "retro" look. I think they look ugly. I'll just continue to drive my 1974 Gran Torino. 15mpgs, $80 a gas tank for one week.

 

[sudsmaster]

While the new Camaro is not unattractive, I don't see much in it that harkens back to the classic Camaros of old. Unless the camera lens is lying, it looks rather truncated and tall. I agree that the new Dodge Challenger is far more faithful to its roots and better looking as well.

But my next dream car will get 50 mpg.

BTW, saw a Smart car fortwo on the freeway this afternoon. It was easily slipping in and out of lanes to get through the usual gridlock. Quite fetching all in black. The rear suspension looked a bit odd, though. The wheels were splayed out slightly, like old VW's.

 

[gewa1054wguy]

Industry folks

As someone who works in the automotive industry, these threads never fail to provide a chuckle. I am amazed how much people know about cars and the auto industry, from the likes of Washington State, Arizona, even Australia. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone has them like... well...

The bottom line folks, if those of us who live in the US and Canada don't step up and support the companies who were the arsenal of democracy and employ 1 out of every 7 folks here in the US from suppliers to dealers, and the workers at Ford, Chrysler or GM plants or HQ, then we will be at an even greater mercy to foreign governments like China and Saudi Arabia. Billions of dollars are going to these two countries alone, and they are not really our friends!

And think before you reply that they build Honda's and Toyota's in the US. They do, but those folks get paid less than their UAW brother's and sisters and the profit goes back to the mother country.

I will stop here, because even though I live and breathe this industry almost every day, someone here will know more than I do and will surely feel the need to share with everyone that they do.

 

[jeffg]

Thanks for the laugh. If we had any chance of saving our manufacturing base, the "buy American" campaign would have started nearly 30 years ago. It's a little late to show up now in a cheerleading outfit. The game's been over since 1980.

GM and Ford are dying remnants of a pre-globalized world (Ford lost $13 billion in '06 and another $3 billion on '07). Even if by some miracle they returned to profitability, U.S. stockholders would still sell these two companies down the river. I'll be amazed if either company is around in 10 years.

Except for "national defense" (i.e. our military-industrial complex), our government isn't going to lift a finger to stop us from becoming a nation of 300 million hamburger flippers.

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www.ustreas.gov

 

[frigilux]

300 million burger flippers....and personal fitness trainers!