Ok, I've got a Frigidaire Flair.... Now what?

[thomasortega]

Folks, as you could see on other thread, a few days ago I've found a Frigidaire Flair for free on Facebook Marketplace.

It just wasn't the very first time I saw a Flair right in front of me because a couple of years ago I went to a Wash in and the host had a Flair in his garage, so I can say I spent 30 seconds admiring a Flair before 4 days ago.

I don't remember the model number, tomorrow I'll go downstairs and write it down. But by the design, it seems to be the "J" and it has the clock on the left and the burners control on the right.

I've read that a member mentioned the oven thermostat being troublesome and NLA.

I can say it's in good condition, I've seen many pictures online that are much worse than mine. Maybe some love and elbow grease will make it look like new again.

Another doubt I have is regarding parts. How difficult it really is to find them? For sure I need dripping pans because they're all rusted.

IDK if the burners work and I don't have how to test them. The person that gave it to me said everything works beautifully the last time it was used. That's a very cliché phrase.

Something that intrigued me was the rotisserie. AFAIK, all Flairs had a rotisserie (sold separately), but the oven doesn't seem to have any place to connect it. (There are two round caps on the back).

Also, was there a meat probe for all the Flair models? Where would it be connected?

Vintage stoves and clocks are almost always a sad Mexican soap opera plot. I have the feeling that the clock and timers don't work at all (I can't even turn the knobs, except the one that sets to "Manual"). Is there any possibility of having the clocks replaced (NLA?) or repaired?

One scary thing is the small oven looks way more used than the large one. Maybe that's a sign that the large oven isn't working?

Here in Los Angeles there's a place called Antique Stove Heaven. I've visited them a few times and they have nearly anything one can imagine, mostly, but not limited to O'Keeffe and Merritt. I know they have a cleaning/restoration service that I'm somewhat tending to hire AFTER I know it's really doable.

To have this Flair in my tiny kitchen I'll need to get rid of my beloved "Eluxmore Elite" stove that is only 4 years old. I'll have to cut cabinets (my landlord authorizes) and spend a fortune to have an electrician pulling the dedicated circuit for it. Add to that the additional cost on electricity compared to the inexpensive natural gas and the loss on storage space, plus a kitchen that will be VERY tight, I mean, I'll have to choose between cooking with the drawer fully open, rubbing by butt on the fridge or open the fridge door. Rubbing my butt on the stove.

I'm willing to give up some comfort and some modern features because it's not an ordinary stove, it's a Flair! However, I won't replace anything, spend a fortune restoring it and all the hassle described above if I can't have it 100% operational and looking great.

Second possibility is being patient until I find a 30-inch Flair. But I doubt I'll have the same luck again. At least I won't need to cut anything because the apartment had a Flair until a month before I moved in, so the cabinets are a perfect match to make a 30-inche look like built in.

 

[turquoisedude]

Thomas, as a fellow Flair owner  - congratulations!! 

 

There was a meat probe - there should be a socket in raised 'box' with what looks like a headphone jack (I'm old so I remember those... LOL) and it would be plugged in there.  On my 1962 model, the meat probe was only offered on the Custom Imperial model, though.  

 

Original drip pans can be found, but you can very easily substitute modern generic replacement ones.  I've got mostly original ones on mine - I have been lucky in finding spares but I had to do a lot of digging in thrift stores and flea markets... 

 

The Heat-Minder 8-inch surface unit is the one that is most likely to give you trouble - parts are hard to find, too.  Mine "works" but I bojacked a regular infinite-heat switch to replace the heat-minder switch.  It works, but it's not perfect. 

 

[thomasortega]

Is there any possible way to test it without wiring it?

What I mean is, I still don't have the 240v but I'd love to have a clue on what needs to be repaired/replaced to see if it's worth all the efforts to restore it (and then the expense on a rental home).

I know my landlord would be thrilled to have someone adding the outlet to the kitchen. YAY, an upgrade, flexibility to choose between gas or electric and even better, not out of HIS pocket.

I measured and noticed the height is perfect for the stove area in my kitchen. I actually have 10 1/2 inches left. (What's the hood height?

A long time ago, the landlord told me this kitchen had a stove with ovens on top and the burners were "like a drawer". Since that time I always suspected my kitchen once had a Flair, however, it doesn't have the electrical other than a regular 120v outlet behind the stove and the tiles are original (over 100 years).

On the other hand, what other stove could have been 30 inches wide, same height as a Flair, but GAS? AFAIK, gas Flairs never existed.

I thought about the O'Keeffe and Merritt, but that one AFAIK never had a 30-inch version, so the width would make it impossible unless the cabinet and tile countertop were cut (they're also original from the construction.

Anyway, possibilities now are:

1) find a 30-inch gas stove somewhat similar to a Flair.
2) Maybe find a 30-inch Flair and deal with the electrical installation cost (absurd), not be 100% thrilled by the electrical consumption (It's California so electricity is VERY expensive)
3) Keep the Flair and restore it (if anybody here is generous enough to share knowledge) AND if I'm able to make it really 100% functional and then find a very thin fridge to put where the dishwasher is and put the dishwasher where the stove is now.
4) Sit and cry, but then remember I have a somewhat new stove that is awesome.

Before I forget, I took a picture of the large oven thermostat. It's located on the top, pointing down, maybe 2 inches, thick as a pencil.

Also, some other pics and the model number.

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[combo52]

Hi Oven Gas Ranges

Roper and Tappan both built Hi-Oven Gas ranges, a lot of the Ropers were sold under the Kenmore name, it does not sound likely that your apartment ever had an electric range.

 

You need to connect the range to 240 volts to fully test it.

 

The large oven sensor in picture #2 is a 17.5 Ohm sensor the same as used in the early GE SC ovens and many others., These often failed and oven would not work, the bigger problem is the oven thermostat [ responder ] was also a problem as these ovens aged and combined with the Tender-Matic system very few of these ovens worked properly as they aged, so my guess is the large oven does not work properly which is why the left oven looks so well used.

 

Best thing to do with these large TMOs is to convert to a regular thermostat like the left oven and give up on the TM feature.

 

The Speed-Heat burner was another weak point, The Heat-Minder element was very reliable of the vintage range.

 

The other problem FD ranges had was poor quality wire connections, but these can be fixed as they age and fail.

 

John L.

 

[thomasortega]

John

Thanks for your comments.

So.... What do you think? YAY or NAY?

as I mentioned before, IF I could manage to have this stove running and looking like new (and everything functional) I could live with the tighter kitchen, smaller fridge etc. Come on, it's a 40-inch flair, we can't have everything, right?

But then..... There's also the installation cost. It's a rental unit. My landlord gave me green light to do anything I want, as soon as I am the one paying for the electrical upgrade. however, that's a huge cost. If the house was mine, I'd probably have hired an electrician to install the outlet even if I had no idea someday I was going to get a Flair, only to rest assured I have a 240v outlet "just in case", even if I never used it.

Then it comes to the cabinet... 37 inches wide.... Because of silly 3 inches (4 to be on the safe side), if I wanted to have the flair right where the stove is now, I'd need to remodel the cabinets. (I'll post pictures below, in a separate comment). The alternative to keep the 40-inch flair is moving the dishwasher to there the stove is, get rid of the side-by-side fridge and put the stove right where the fridge is (and of course I'd end up with a stove immediately next to a thin and tall fridge)

So... Keep a 40-inch flair that I always dreamed about, look for a 30-inch flair or give up the idea for now and patiently wait until I can find any 30 inch gas stove that would fit there.

I've seen some Kenmore models with high ovens, but they looked so tall, I doubt they'd fit below the top cabinets. And as I mentioned, the landlord told me there was a stove that fitted perfectly in the niche and the burners would hide like a drawer. It looked like built in, he didn't say anything about being electric or gas, but the pristine condition 100 year old tiles make obvious that my kitchen never had a 240v outlet. Actually, the 120v outlet there was installed during the renovation right before I moved in, a tile was removed (by a not talented handyman, of course, luckily it's hidden by the stove) so, before that, not even that outlet existed.

At some point this apartment also had a much older stove, on the opposite side of the kitchen. By the position of the second gas valve and the design of the tiles wall I can easily guess it was one of those antique 1920s Magic Chefs or something like that. By the way, my home was built in 1914.

 

[thomasortega]

The pictures I mentioned above....

In one of them I'm pointing there the second gas valve is... I covered it with a Styrofoam cover to protect the freezer door.

 

[qsd-dan]

I say pass. It'll take major renovations to install for proper use and you really won't gain anything in the end. Hold out until you buy your own place.

 

[panthera]

Thomas,

I see that everyone has you well in hand, so I'll keep it to 'congratulations'.

We have an extra Flair we bought for parts...which turned out to be in better condition than the one we were working on!

As others have already mentioned, there's solutions for every problem. I've replaced the infinite heat burner controls with new universal ones without problem, even.

And, yes, the ovens are absolutely awful at keeping a temperature. I grew up with a brand new one and it was awful in the 1960s, too. Never mind, you learn each oven's idiosyncrasies.

 

[spiralator60]

Vote

YAY!

 

[combo52]

Frigidaire Flair Oven Temperature Problems

I never had customers that complained about temperature problems with FD Flair or any FD ranges except the ranges with Tender Matic, this FD may be the only FD Flair model to have ever had this feature and of course only in the large oven.

 

John L.

 

[thomasortega]

Panthera

I have to second what Combo52 said. I don't have any experience with flairs, know very little about them compared to many other members here but it was quite surprising to hear that the ovens had issues with the temp.

I'm very aware the thermostats are opinionated, but not the overall design.

Actually, considering only the design and the size, I see no feasible reason for the flairs to have issues with the temperature, unless the thermostat is defective.

By the way, if anybody is interested, the kitchen from where this Flair came also has a wall oven like the flair and one of those foldable cookers. The person asked if I wanted them but I thought it was a little "too much information" for me.

 

[panthera]

Tender Matic

Both my grandparent's and our main Flair have this feature in the wider oven and it is not accurate.

I stand by my position that Flair ovens are not very precise. And, I like them.

Do a few cakes in yours, then we'll see.....

 

[thomasortega]

OIC... the tendermatic is famous for being not so accurate, opinionated, unreliable....

If i need something extremely accurate, I have a Kitchenaid dual convection countertop oven that is fantastic and even has a probe. Actually, I use it much more than the oven in my Eluxmore (that is also fantastic) because most of the baking is usually for Darryl and I and I'm kinda picky with leftovers (i don't like them) so I tend to cook everything large enough to satisfy both of us, which turns out to be small enough to use a full size oven.

For the Frigidaire, as soon as they work and it's possible to use them, I'll be more than happy, even knowing they're not a super accurate. I have the feeling that I'll probably use more the smaller oven, followed by the Kitchenaid and the large Flair oven will be used only a couple of times per year.

 

[panthera]

The three big advantages of the Flair ovens

1) Eye level. Really easy to see what you're incinerating.
2) Super easy to use doors - they lift up and out of the way.
3) Outstandingly fast grills.

We wouldn't have two if I didn't like them.

 

[thomasortega]

Ok, ow I'm really confused.

Pantera, you like or rate the flairs?

 

[panthera]

Thomas,

I love Flair Ranges. We use one of them as a daily driver half-of-the-year.

I think their design and general build quality is wonderful.

They are repairable.

This doesn't change the fact that their ovens had and have awful temperature swings.

Something I am inclined to forgive in a cheap piece of WCI trash. It's as if the glovebox door on one's '89 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance keeps falling open and hitting one in the leg everytime one's not exactly manic driver of a partner goes around a curve faster than 5 Kmh.

Unpardonable and totally General Motors 'Mark of Excellence'.