OK, Now it Won't Ring

[rp2813]

Hey guys, I'm using the 500 phone that was the subject of my recent thread, and it's really great transmission & reception quality. Way better than talking on the handset portion of the fax machine on my desk.

But I can't get it to ring. I've checked out schematics on line and everything looks right. If I recall correctly, somebody helped out with a similar issue recently, maybe about the red trimline phone?

Does anyone have any troubleshooting suggestions? I really want to hear the classic Donna Reed ringing sound from this baby!

Thanks for any input,

Ralph

 

[rp2813]

Wiring Schemes I've Already Tried

Here's what I've tried based on some info I found on line:

Placing the spade from the black coil lead onto the "G" (ground) terminal on the network block (as shown in link pic).

Placing the spade from the black coil lead onto the "L1" terminal on the network block (green line cord lead also connected here).

Neither of these positions helped. The black ringer lead was on "L1" to begin with.

The rest of the leads from the ringer coil are attached to the network block as follows (again, see link pic):

Red lead connected to "L2" (red line cord lead also connected here)
Slate lead connected to "K"
Slate/Red lead connected to "A"

The attached link contains a photo of the suggested configuration. This photo shows the same arrangement I currently have on my phone. The arrows numbered 1 & 2 are showing the suggested fix of moving the black ringer lead onto the L1 terminal from the ground terminal. As stated above, my phone was configured that way when I opened it up and still wouldn't ring. You can see the red and slate leads soldered to the coil at the top of the photo, and the other ends attached to L2 and K terminals. The black and red/slate leads are not visible where they attach to the coil but you can see them screwed onto the ground terminal (black, along with yellow line cord lead) and at terminal A (slate/red) which in the photo appears closest to the coil.

I think I read somewhere that depending on your telephone provider, switching out the line cord leads between L1 and L2 terminals may be required to get your phone working properly but I know that switching them out didn't matter where dial tone is concerned on my phone. It works fine either way.

Otherwise, I seem to have exhausted on line resources and find myself being circled back to sites I've already hit.

I may change out the entire ringer coil and see if that's the problem. I hope not. I'd like to keep all of the original 1950 parts on this phone if possible. It's super clean and pristine where the guts are concerned. Even the leather covered feet on this phone are that brand new reddish color and not brown, smashed and way used looking.

I also read that some phones may be configured for party lines, and that could effect the ringing circuitry. Any knowledge that can be shared on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/500ringerrewiring.jpg

 

[MrX]

It's possible the US used a more complicated pre-modular (RJ11) system.

Ireland's modular system is quite simple 2-wire (RJ11) but in the past (pre late 1970s) there were all sorts of more complex arrangements in use to prevent bell tinkling on old pulse dial circuits.

Typically, many phones used 3-wire setups i.e. in our terminology L1 and L2 (the red and green pair) and another wire "R" to activate the phone's bell or ringer. The ringing voltage was 'shunted' off the 2-wire line onto a 3rd wire after the first telephone and all the extensions were wired with 3 wires.

The UK continues to use this system with their modular system. If you connect a UK phone directly to an Irish or US 2-wire it's quite common that the phone won't ring. They've a capicator and some other circuitry in their first "master" socket that shunts the ring voltage onto a 3rd wire and it's connected from one of the 'spare' contacts on their phone connectors.

If you're hooking up a UK phone or fax to an Irish or US line you typically need an adaptor that contains a ringer capacitor, otherwise the phone refuses to ring.

Perhaps something like that's going on with your old phone?!

As you can see the modern UK connector's VERY similar to RJ11, but not quite the same

 

[MrX]

Here's the circuitry inside!

Here's the circuitry inside the Master Socket found in the UK (Not used in Ireland.. we use RJ11, similar to the US/Canada)

 

[rp2813]

That jack does look more complex than your average American RJ11. I definitely think this has to do with the way my local provider is set up. I'm trying to connect a Bell System Western Electric phone to Verizon's network. Maybe I should try to find some wiring diagrams of Automatic Electric's version of the WE 500 and perhaps will find my answer that way. I can also drive the phone over to my mom's and try plugging it in on AT&T's network and see if it rings. Then I'll know it's an issue with configuration for Verizon's network. I have no doubt that the ringer would work fine on this phone if properly wired to do so. The 500's are virtually indesctructible and were way overbuilt to withstand abuse. The dialtone issue I posted about previously was an easy fix once I figured out the problem. I suspect this ringer item will be no different but would appreciate anyone's input re: probable causes and solutions.

 

[MrX]

This site might help!

http://www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-500.html

 

[rocketeer500]

Here's the wiring schematic for WE 500

I was able to find this site that is dedicated to the WE500. I'm not sure if this will help... but it's worth a looksee.

http://www.porticus.org/bell/telephones-500.html

 

[rp2813]

Thanks to you both for that link. I've been lead to that site several times already as I try to sort this out. In fact, I believe that site might be the one that had the most bizzare wiring scheme I've seen and it caused the phone to loose dialtone completely when I arranged things per his wiring diagram.

Also wondering if this has anything to do with the fact that this is the original plain 500 model from '49 and '50 with 425A network block and separate 311A equalizer. It's not the later type 500 C/D sets that have the equalizer integrated into the 425B network block. I don't think that should matter, but considering the short production run of this first series, it could have quirks that later ones don't.

I've checked another later 500 set I have and it appeared to be wired the same way as the one in question. I have a couple more to examine to see if there are any differences in the ringer wiring. Once I've seen those I think that will indicate that the configuration on this early model must not be the same. I just need to figure out what that configuration needs to be, and right now I'm stuck.

 

[MrX]

I suppose the other alternative is to just hook it up to a phone line and keep calling yourself and swapping the connectors and work it out by trial and error.

Just beware of touching the live phone connectors when the ring signal's applied. Depending on how close you are to the exchange (Central Office), the switching system can send quite high voltages circa 75V AC down the line and it's enough to give you quite a jolt.

 

[drmitch]

Heres a photo of mine, It may help.

 

[drmitch]

Heres a link to a site with the wiring diagrams.

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/library/weco/weco.htm

 

[rp2813]

Thanks Don,
Your phone is configured the same as all the 500's of my own that I've checked. I've been to that site with the wiring diagrams. I first tried the one for 500A, and that gave me a dialtone that wouldn't quit even when on hook. The diagram for 500 C/D is closer to the correct way, except that the black ringer lead is terminated at the ground screw instead of L1 like with your phone and all of mine. I'll try a couple more things with the wiring and then pull the ringer. Maybe one of the wires that I cant see on it has a bad soldered connection.

It's easy to make my own phone line ring. In my Verizon territory, you just call your own number and wait for the beep and hang up.

 

[rp2813]

SUCCESS!

I got help from Dennis at vintagerotaryphones.com (link provided) who sent me a written description of how his same model phone was wired and also sent great photos of where the wires were terminating on the network block.

It turns out the 425A network block has a very different configuration of the terminals than the 425B and later ones. Once I realized that, I tried again to make the proper connections but it didn't help. The correct scheme is totally different from the 425B and later networks.

So I made the connections per the instructions and photos from Dennis and the ringer came to life. It sounds wonderful. Now when I'm in the back yard I will definitely be able to hear the phone ring. Even with the windows closed!

Dennis is a great guy and very willing to help with issues like this. Check out his site. He does meticulous restorations and his phones are like new when he's done.

http://www.vintagerotaryphones.com/blog/

 

[drmitch]

Dennis has a neat bussiness! I love all the old phones. Congrats on getting yours to ringing. : )