Old Kenmore Direct Drive questions

[kittingerhoover]

Hi Everybody!

I am new to the board, I was on Vacuumland and decided to join over here~!

I have a couple questions about the first DD machines. Did the original DD machines spin with the water in the tub? Also were the first DD washers more aggressive than the newer ones? It seems the one I rescued is really aggressive compared to the newer one that I have.

Also there seems to be some agitator controversy. Did the Kenmores have an exclusive agitator? What is your favorite Whirlpool agitators?

 

[gmmcnair]

Welcome...

...let's see...IIRC...the early direct drive machines did do a spin drain but I'm not sure when that stopped. A lot of the newer models erroneously spin drain once they get some wear and tear on them....my TOL Whirlpool did. You can still trick them into spinning by opening the lid during drain, but I can't imagine that being good for anything in the works.

 

I haven't noticed the mechanism being any more or less agressive on the new vs. the old machines. The older standard capacity machines tended to be more aggressive than the large tub machines. My friend had one with a straight vane that was a genuine Shredmore if overloaded. Same thing with my ex's BOL Whirlpool DD.

 

I know that Kenmore initially had the exclusive Dual Action agitator vs. others, but that was way back from the belt drive days. Newer Kenmores are virtually identical to my Admiralpool. As far as favorite agitators go, my own personal favorite was the Super Roto Swirl from our 1981 standard capacity Kenmore. It was gentle but got the clothes clean every time.

 

[cfz2882]

spin drain DDs

the earlier DDs,24"machines up to about 1985, did do a spin drain-i have heard
the later neutral drain machines will malfunction and spin drain if the motor
coupler gets worn and developes too much lash.
The earliest DD i have found was from mid-1982,but i think combo52 was found
and preserved a very,very early one from mid 1981

 

[autowasherfreak]

My favorite agitator of all time is the Whirlpool Surgilator with or without the "wings" on the bottom.

 

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Early Whirlpool DD looks similar to this...

 

[kenmore71]

Neutral drain

I am uncertain as to what year Whirlpool went to a neutral drain in the DD machines but it was relatively early (by the mid-80s).  In my experience, if your DD is spinning during the initial drain it means that the neutral drain assembly inside the transmission is worn and needs to be replaced.  It is an inexpensive part that involves dropping the transmission and taking it apart to replace.  Given the labor involved, I have always just replaced the transmission with a rebuilt one.  It only takes about 20 minutes to change out DD transmissions.  I also usually replace the spin clutch while I have it apart. 

It is a problem when a DD starts spinning during the drain for two reasons: 1. It is very hard on the spin clutch which was never designed to spin with a tub full of water, and 2. If you have a full tub of water it often throws water out over the top of the tub at the beginning of the spin which gets all sorts of stuff wet that shouldn't.

 

[kittingerhoover]

This machine must be early...

It doesn't do that typical drain-stop-clunk-spin.

It just stops agitating and BOOM spin.

It has the double action agitator that I only see on Kenmores. It looks more squat than most of the whirlpool ones such as the fabric dispenser type my father has, and it is much different than the KitchenAid torquoise one in my Uncle Mike's machine, or in my Father in law's Roper which is a single action agitator.

The interesting thing about my fathers Whirlpool is that the bottom of the agitator has plastic thick lip on it that turns upward under the fins...

I've rebuilt a ton of these. I never pass one up, I like to rebuild them and sell them. Some video's I have seen have shown some REAL interesting agitators such as one with a lint catch.

I happen to really like this machine and will use it because of the HOT/WARM combo which is insanly hard to find!!

Any more input would be greatly appreciated!!

Dennis

 

[kittingerhoover]

Picture...

that machine in the picture is a real eye catcher, it still looks like the belt driven type of old.

This machine might need some love but I do have another transmission if necessary.

I might change the tub as well, this one is nicked up.

I have a whole donor DD whirlpool for parts.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

At some later point the design gets switched to something like this neutral drain model...

 

[supremewhirlpol]

This DD in first picture has similar design console to picture of this BD.

 

[neptunebob]

When Direct drive first came out it was phased in on the smaller and lower priced models.  So that may account for why some of the earlier machines were rough on clothes - the tub was deep and narrow and less spaced meant the clothes rubbed together more.  The larger machines had direct drive phased in later, and the Limited Edition was the last of the belt driven Kenmores around 1986.  I remember them in black - It looked like a washer and dryer Darth Vader might own.

 

[DADoES]

 

The Gentle Wash system also helped with aggressiveness.  Regular cycle starts at high-speed agitation, switches to low speed at 6-mins remaining.

 

Three-speed motors also help, with the extra-low speed.  KitchenAid three-speed machines used the MEDIUM motor speed for HIGH-speed agitation, the LOW motor speed for low agitation.  HIGH motor speed was used for spin and drain, not for agitation.

 

A neutral-drain tranny malfunctioning into spin-drain has nothing to do with the motor coupler.  It's caused by wearing of parts inside the transmission ... and can also be caused by thickened tranny oil if the machine is run in a very cold environment.

 

[strongenough78]

DADoES......

Didn't the KitchenAid washers have the DA agitator with the oversized vanes at the bottom? I know I've seen a thread not to long ago stating that, and that's why they used the medium agitation as the high on their washers.

 

[kittingerhoover]

Upon further investigation...

I have determined that there is a failure of the transmission most likely.

There is a whirring noise coming from the agitiator area on spin, and there is a timer pause where whirrr-clunk---spin should occur.

Most likely I will do the dogs, tranny, and clutch, as well as a lid switch.

 

[magic clean]

Model

LB5500XK was the 1st direct-drive washer with spin / drain in 1982.

http://www.kitchenaid.ca/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 382597.pdf

 

[DADoES]

 

My grandmother's LA7400XMW2 bought in Nov 1984 (S/N C43505625 - 35th week of 1984) still did spin-drain.

 

[kittingerhoover]

work done!

Well, a new coupler, spin cluch, dogs, and a used transmission has been installed and now the machine works as intended.

I used an agitator from a Wirlpool with the fabric softner dispenser. I am not sure if I like it as much as the original "dual action" agitator found in most Kenmores.

Maybe I will swap it out and see.

Dennis

 

[gmmcnair]

On the DD Machines....

I like the agitator with the lint filter...with the pet hair I deal with, wish mine had it.