Older Toilets and Extra Bolts

[rp2813]

I'm actually kind of surprised Dave hasn't cracked or broken any of the toilets in this house over the past 30 months.  The new ADA-height one (AS Clean Cadet 3) does make a big difference.  There are no sounds of crashing down on the seat or rattling of the tank lid anymore.  The low-flow (1.28 GPF) flush action is remarkably effective, although for bigger jobs holding down the flush lever just slightly longer isn't a bad idea.  I can definitely live with it, and over all it's quieter in all respects than the toilet it replaced.

 

I pulled up the '47 toilet yesterday.  Both flange bolts were loose.  One was bent and not even attached.  I had the later toilet from the other bathroom cleaned up and ready to install, but found the closet mounting flange to be an old-school type that's slightly higher than floor level.  The newer toilet doesn't have the clearance required for such an arrangement, so I'm stuck.  The '47 can't go back because the front pair of floor bolts snapped off when I attempted to remove them

 

I'm pretty sure the closet mount was installed using molten lead, so there's no way to fix it without a plumber getting involved.  Fortunately, I know of a good guy who I'm hoping can get out here soon to install an up-to-date flange. 

 

[circlew]

Actually, Frances (now deceased many years) didn't know she broke the commode. I went in a few minutes after she was in there, and saw water on the floor, and wiped it up. My mom went in an hour or so later, and found water on the floor halfway to the door. Plumber came next day, and found the bowl was broken where the tank connects, and said it couldn't be fixed.

I was under strict orders to NEVER say anything to Frances about it. Whenever I heard she was coming to visit, I'd joke we'd better go buy another toilet just in case.

 

[rp2813]

Out with the old

In with the new(er).  I'm happy to have a more period-correct fixture in this bathroom.  The '47 always looked out of place in there.

 

 

 

[qsd-dan]

Looks great, but the ’47 didn’t look out of place to me. However, I have ’32 installed in a '70 home, so what the hell do I know, lol.

Is that a 1 piece F-2000 American Standard? Looks like it. Always found those 1930's-1960's 1 piece toilets to be an interesting design. Some models have a funky flush valve setup that I believe is hard to find parts for now.....so I'm told.

 

[rp2813]

It only looks expensive

Dan, the replacement toilet just did its job on you -- it's a two-piece made to look like a one-piece.  Flushing mechanism is like any that of any average toilet.  You can see the seam where the tank mounts onto the base.   I can't find any manufacturer information stamped on it anywhere.  I like the look of it so if one commode had to go, it was the old AS.

 

Rest assured I would have reversed the situation if I had a +/- 1950 bathroom where the AS would coordinate.

 

[qsd-dan]

LOL!

I be damned! I didn't know AS made a 1 piece and a 1 piece look-a-like.

Learn something new every day

 

[rp2813]

I don't think it's made by AS.  My dad was cheap, which is why it's a two-piece, and it's probably an off-brand.

 

In case there's any speculation out there, here's an idea of what the rest of the bathroom looks like.  All it needs is one of those chain lamps with oil running down fishing line, but the contemporary sconces were cheap at Lowe's.  They replaced carriage style lamps that absolutely had to go. 

 

[circlew]

A-S toilets

The one-piece toilet shown in the ad below was what was installed in my dad's aunt and uncles house. They had two, both in White, and were original from when the house was built in 1936. I always liked them. Ralph's newer two-piece is similar.

I've been in other houses that had them in Black, Corallin (warm Pink), and T'ang Red (Maroon).

Ralph, the 1949 Standard toilet would have been Ming Green. They also had a beautiful darker color in the 40's-50's called Tourmaline, which was a deep Blue Green. Surf Green was a shade from the 60's, and was very similar to Ming Green, just slightly bluer. Honeydew was an 80's color.

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www.amazon.com

 

[qsd-dan]

That '60 toilet sure looks like a 60's American Standard. The flush handle screams late 40's - early 60's AS. However, I have seen a lot of non OEM toilet handles installed on various different model and make toilets, so I could be wrong.

After seeing that bathroom pic, I now have to admit that toilet looks much more at home in that bathroom than the '47 did. Bathroom looks great, BTW. Seems most people trash their homes these days (and the stuff in it), and original equipped bathrooms that age look really run down. Kudos to you and your family for taking care of your stuff.

Tom, the one piece toilets you describe sounds like the early F-2000 American Standard toilets. They probably looked exactly like this.[this post was last edited: 8/2/2012-02:44]

 

[circlew]

Hey Dan, the toilets did look just like your pic. Both had elongated bowls.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks Dan, and I'm glad to get some validation on the more period-correct replacement toilet.  I actually found a 1959 date on it.  The flush lever is original.  I still can't find any evidence of manufacturer.  Maybe it was the toilet equivalent back then to a fake Rolex from Hong Kong -- although it was definitely made in U.S.A. 

 

That is a beautiful F-2000 you posted.  Built for the ages.

 

[beekeyknee]

Bathroom care/Sewer problems

Dan, You're right. Most people have no idea how to care for bathroom fixtures or surfaces. Strict attention must be paid to caring for toilets, bathtubs, sinks, tiles and plumbing. Each has to be cleaned and maintained in a certain way if one expects the bath to function properly and retain its beauty.

 

Some people don't even know how to sit on a toilet. It's not a recliner. One's not supposed to lean back on the tank. Why don't people have any sense?

 

My sister and brother-in-law took out one of their toilets and couldn't get the gasket between the tank and bowl to stop leaking. so they threw it away and bought one of those stupid low flush toilets to replace it. I wonder if they were using the wrong parts or putting it together wrong? Hard to say. I wasn't there, but I'd be willing to bet. The new toilet is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. It looks all pretty and period, but it uses about a quart of water to flush. And people wonder why they're starting to have stoppages in their main lines and cities are wondering why sewer lines are running slow or stopping up with grease and debris. Hmmmm? Let's see. No water? No phosphates to dissolve grease? Try using soap and hard water in your washing machine and see what happens. A grey ring of muck around the top of the water level. Gee, I wonder if the same build up could be happening inside of pipes? (Scratches head.)

[this post was last edited: 8/11/2012-17:59]

 

[qsd-dan]

Not sure what toilet(s) your sister had, but Americans Standard toilets have a doughnut type tank to bowl gasket that needs additional time and care to properly align and seal correctly. I use always use petroleum jelly on the tank to the bowl gasket and slowly go back and forth tightening the tank to bowl bolts for an even tank alignment. The petro jelly prevents the doughnut seal from hanging up and becoming cockeyed on the bowl, preventing any leaks.

I also use a rubber gasket seal from another brand toilet manufacturer (Mansfield? Can’t remember at the moment) that I put between the locking nut and tank (underneath). This is also coated with petro jelly on both sides. This gasket allows one to get the nut tighter without gouging or cracking the porcelain. Factory just has a metal nut tightening up again the porcelain tank. I don’t like that at all! The petro jelly prevents the large nut from hanging up and skidding on the rubber gasket, allowing one to get a tighter torque reading on the seal.

Tank to bowl bolt seals can often seep a little for a day or so after they're installed, then seal for good until they're disturbed again. This seems to be pretty common with the crappy rubber seals that are available today.

Kohler toilets with their 3 bolt triangle tank to bowl gaskets usually align and seal up without any additional attention, but I have only fooled around with one of those (a light blue 1972 Kohler Wellworth).

I can't stand the low 1.6 gallon toilets. They don't flush very well to begin with and begin plugging up the trap after 5-7 years. Can't imagine how awful the newer 1.28s are! Between vintage top loading Maytag washers, vintage KitchenAid dishwashers (3 gallon fills = 21 gallons per load) and antique toilets, I'm sure I’m solely responsible for keeping the sewer lines downstream from me nice and clean, lol.

 

[rp2813]

Well, I have to say I'm impressed with the performance of the new 1.28 gallon toilet that gave rise to this thread.

 

Today I cleaned one of the carpets and dumped the dirty, nearly black water from the cleaner's holding tank into the new toilet, turning the water in the bowl black.  Mind you, this new toilet has an impressively large surface area of water in the bowl.  With one flush, and they do seem like partial flushes that complete in a matter of a few seconds, the bowl was completely clear.   Amazingly, the toilet provides similar results with solids.  In that regard, I'm happy with its performance.

 

Still, the concern over clogged pipes is justified.  I make sure to use the other old-school toilets with +/- 5-gallon flushes, both of which are further back on the main line from the low-flow unit, in order to keep things moving.