norgeway
Well-known member
Now it washes
About like a NORGE!
About like a NORGE!
Opinions Needed on Souping-Up a 1970s Helical Drive Maytag
- Thread starter Unimatic1140
- Start date
Help Support :
norgeway
Well-known member
Thats amazing
Every Maytag I ever had framed and beat every time it spun so bad it either cut off or shook so bad once it got up to speed it walked around.
Every Maytag I ever had framed and beat every time it spun so bad it either cut off or shook so bad once it got up to speed it walked around.
That is really spectacular. Love the power-burst to start the turnover rolling, then back down to normal speed for the duration of the wash time.
Now do a dog bed!
Now do a dog bed!
Spectacular. The mouse that roared!
Maytag!
Robert thanks for the video you did a great job increasing the power of the machine!
Robert thanks for the video you did a great job increasing the power of the machine!
Better than expected!
Well wasn't that just amazing. The transmission is taking the speed changes with ease, and the power-burst is a wonderful feature! The second wash to spin was so AMP, without the clank of a solenoid. Once the water was removed from the tub the ramp up on the speed almost sounded like a Unimatic for few seconds.
Thanks for the work so far and sharing with us! Can't wait to see what's next.
I'm with Dan - turn this thing up to 1000 RPM!
Ben
Well wasn't that just amazing. The transmission is taking the speed changes with ease, and the power-burst is a wonderful feature! The second wash to spin was so AMP, without the clank of a solenoid. Once the water was removed from the tub the ramp up on the speed almost sounded like a Unimatic for few seconds.
Thanks for the work so far and sharing with us! Can't wait to see what's next.
I'm with Dan - turn this thing up to 1000 RPM!
Ben
Take that baby for a spin to 1000 RPM's, I bet she can handle it with no sweat!
Well tonight I washed a big load of rags with a few towels mixed in and ramped up both wash spin and final spin to 944rpm. It couldn't believe how smooth it was, it almost seems like the faster I go the quieter and more smooth it gets. There was very little vibration at all on the cabinet. Obviously there will be a limit to that stellar performance, but I don't know what that is. I'll stick with 944rpm through the weekend wash and see how it does before I go any higher. I'm only 196rpm away from the "mother lode" speed lol.
Once the water was removed from the tub the ramp up on the speed almost sounded like a Unimatic for few seconds.
It sounds even more like a Unimatic in person during that ramp up.
I have one other idea for another feature that would be cool if the motor can handle the low rpm. It would take another relay possibly two, but it would be really cool to have tub rotate slowly during the wash fill to really saturate the entire load before wash begins.
Well tonight I washed a big load of rags with a few towels mixed in and ramped up both wash spin and final spin to 944rpm. It couldn't believe how smooth it was, it almost seems like the faster I go the quieter and more smooth it gets. There was very little vibration at all on the cabinet. Obviously there will be a limit to that stellar performance, but I don't know what that is. I'll stick with 944rpm through the weekend wash and see how it does before I go any higher. I'm only 196rpm away from the "mother lode" speed lol.
Once the water was removed from the tub the ramp up on the speed almost sounded like a Unimatic for few seconds.
It sounds even more like a Unimatic in person during that ramp up.
I have one other idea for another feature that would be cool if the motor can handle the low rpm. It would take another relay possibly two, but it would be really cool to have tub rotate slowly during the wash fill to really saturate the entire load before wash begins.
NICE-Much better than the Maytags of that era I used to know.Both my Mom and Stepmom had these.The one my Stepmom had went thru the Rapid City flood of 72.It was rebuilt by the Maytag dealer there.The machine was beat up-but worked.Was replaced by a later Maytag when the flood one died.
Breaking the 1000rpm Barrier in a Maytag!
So this weekend I did 6 washloads in the Maytag, all spun at 944rpm. That made for 12 spins in total yesterday. 11 of the spins were just beautiful, smooth as silk, in one of the spins washing a large load of mixed colors once it reached near full speed there seems to have been a loud rapid knocking, which I believe was closer to the top of the cabinet. I stopped the machine and re-distrbuted the load to be better balanced and everything was back to normal. So after all the wash was done, I figured I would try to re-create the same semi-unbalanced load with wet towels to help determine where the rapid knock was coming from, however no matter what I tried I couldn't reproduce the sound. So for now I'll move on, I'm sure it will show up again and I can investigate where it's coming from and secure what ever is causing it.
So tonight with a full load of towels I increased spin to 1010rpm! Again no obvious issues with suspension or bearings. 1010rpm was the same spin speed as a 1965-1970 Frigidaire Rapidry Roller-matic or a 1964-1968 Frigidaire coin-op Super Duty Multi-matic. The entire load of towels all dried in 30 minutes.
The only issue I have noticed is faint hot rubber smell right after tub braking. I suspect I need to add a small amount of lubricant to the brake assembly to help with heat dissipation. I'll have to see if I can add the lubricant without much if any disassembly. However, as an experiment I tried spinning the load at 618rpm and braking again and the smell still happened, so who knows.
I have to say I am extremely impressed at how well the design of the Maytag suspension system is at high speeds. There is very little vibration on the cabinet even at 1010rpm, certainly less vibration than the 2007 LG Front Loader I have, by far at the same speed. I suspect having the ballast ring at the top of the tub as well as the weight of the spinning transmission underneath makes for a lot of ballast across the spinning axis.
More to come.
So this weekend I did 6 washloads in the Maytag, all spun at 944rpm. That made for 12 spins in total yesterday. 11 of the spins were just beautiful, smooth as silk, in one of the spins washing a large load of mixed colors once it reached near full speed there seems to have been a loud rapid knocking, which I believe was closer to the top of the cabinet. I stopped the machine and re-distrbuted the load to be better balanced and everything was back to normal. So after all the wash was done, I figured I would try to re-create the same semi-unbalanced load with wet towels to help determine where the rapid knock was coming from, however no matter what I tried I couldn't reproduce the sound. So for now I'll move on, I'm sure it will show up again and I can investigate where it's coming from and secure what ever is causing it.
So tonight with a full load of towels I increased spin to 1010rpm! Again no obvious issues with suspension or bearings. 1010rpm was the same spin speed as a 1965-1970 Frigidaire Rapidry Roller-matic or a 1964-1968 Frigidaire coin-op Super Duty Multi-matic. The entire load of towels all dried in 30 minutes.
The only issue I have noticed is faint hot rubber smell right after tub braking. I suspect I need to add a small amount of lubricant to the brake assembly to help with heat dissipation. I'll have to see if I can add the lubricant without much if any disassembly. However, as an experiment I tried spinning the load at 618rpm and braking again and the smell still happened, so who knows.
I have to say I am extremely impressed at how well the design of the Maytag suspension system is at high speeds. There is very little vibration on the cabinet even at 1010rpm, certainly less vibration than the 2007 LG Front Loader I have, by far at the same speed. I suspect having the ballast ring at the top of the tub as well as the weight of the spinning transmission underneath makes for a lot of ballast across the spinning axis.
More to come.
Robert, a few random thoughts:
When testing different spin speeds, keep in mind that the amount of vibration may not have a completely linear correlation with the spin speed. If you've ever driven a car with an unbalanced front wheel, you might be familiar with the situation... something to the effect of "car shimmies at 40mph but smoothes out again above 50." I don't know that anyone knows the resonant frequency of a 70's Maytag's spinning mass, or how it changes with different wash loads. But one day you might find the right load and spin speed where, counter to expectation, going SLOWER actually increases the vibration. If you wanted to get fancy, you could put an accelerometer in line with your speed controller, and let it automatically dial down the speed if things get out of hand. But if you have a computer in the mix, you might as well ditch the timer too and start from scratch. It's a slippery slope.
Perhaps related to balance, from your video, it looks like your water level control might be out of adjustment.
Maytag's literature states:
>> "The water level on the Extra-Large setting should register
>> between the bottom of the second row of holes to slightly
>> above the top row of holes in the tub."
In the video, it seems that yours keeps on filling right past that, up until somewhere mid-way up the balance ring? At 1:11 in your video, the water level was so high that it even floated out the fabric softener dispenser cup!
For the loud rapid knocking on the 12th run... Have you verified that an unbalanced tub actually does actuate your lid/unbalance switch?
The switch itself has an adjustment procedure, and yours could be out of calibration. Likewise, having the upper tub cover installed crooked (or perhaps too high or low?) could negatively impact the switch actuation. Even on a non-supercharged Maytag, it should only make unbalance noises briefly before the switch is triggered and shuts the whole machine down. If yours continued knocking until you intervened, I would suspect you have a mechanical or alignment issue that is preventing the unbalance switch from doing it's job... and at 1,000 RPM, I think you would want that switch to be functional!
On the hot rubber smell... Are you sure it's coming from the brake, and not from the belt?
Looks like this will be a great performing machine once the bugs are worked out!
When testing different spin speeds, keep in mind that the amount of vibration may not have a completely linear correlation with the spin speed. If you've ever driven a car with an unbalanced front wheel, you might be familiar with the situation... something to the effect of "car shimmies at 40mph but smoothes out again above 50." I don't know that anyone knows the resonant frequency of a 70's Maytag's spinning mass, or how it changes with different wash loads. But one day you might find the right load and spin speed where, counter to expectation, going SLOWER actually increases the vibration. If you wanted to get fancy, you could put an accelerometer in line with your speed controller, and let it automatically dial down the speed if things get out of hand. But if you have a computer in the mix, you might as well ditch the timer too and start from scratch. It's a slippery slope.
Perhaps related to balance, from your video, it looks like your water level control might be out of adjustment.
Maytag's literature states:
>> "The water level on the Extra-Large setting should register
>> between the bottom of the second row of holes to slightly
>> above the top row of holes in the tub."
In the video, it seems that yours keeps on filling right past that, up until somewhere mid-way up the balance ring? At 1:11 in your video, the water level was so high that it even floated out the fabric softener dispenser cup!
For the loud rapid knocking on the 12th run... Have you verified that an unbalanced tub actually does actuate your lid/unbalance switch?
The switch itself has an adjustment procedure, and yours could be out of calibration. Likewise, having the upper tub cover installed crooked (or perhaps too high or low?) could negatively impact the switch actuation. Even on a non-supercharged Maytag, it should only make unbalance noises briefly before the switch is triggered and shuts the whole machine down. If yours continued knocking until you intervened, I would suspect you have a mechanical or alignment issue that is preventing the unbalance switch from doing it's job... and at 1,000 RPM, I think you would want that switch to be functional!
On the hot rubber smell... Are you sure it's coming from the brake, and not from the belt?
Looks like this will be a great performing machine once the bugs are worked out!
The 1010 Maytag A207
Wow, Fun progress
The noise you got on one of your spins was the top of the basket hitting the tub cover, it has always been difficult to get the basket lined up and centered on the basket mounting stem and the tub covered properly spaced and centered as well.
A major part of the problem is production tolerances weren't that good on the stamping and welding on the outer tub and wash baskets and they never intended these washers to spin this fast. I put a new center seal in a 1991 MT washer a few weeks ago and had a terrible time getting everything lined up to keep the basket from hitting the tub cover occasionally.
The problem is the basket flexes enough to hit the tub cover and if the heavy part of the load ends up on the side of the basket that is too close you may get some contact with the tub cover, but you might put the same unbalanced load in 10 times and never get the interference again however.
There is no effective adjustment to the crude out-of-balance-cutout on this washer, the OOBC is just intended to stop the machine as the spin starts if it is badly unbalanced, it will not stop a spin that is reaching full speed.
I dough the hot rubber smell is the brake, more likely the main drive belt, hopefully not the center seal.
John L.
Wow, Fun progress
The noise you got on one of your spins was the top of the basket hitting the tub cover, it has always been difficult to get the basket lined up and centered on the basket mounting stem and the tub covered properly spaced and centered as well.
A major part of the problem is production tolerances weren't that good on the stamping and welding on the outer tub and wash baskets and they never intended these washers to spin this fast. I put a new center seal in a 1991 MT washer a few weeks ago and had a terrible time getting everything lined up to keep the basket from hitting the tub cover occasionally.
The problem is the basket flexes enough to hit the tub cover and if the heavy part of the load ends up on the side of the basket that is too close you may get some contact with the tub cover, but you might put the same unbalanced load in 10 times and never get the interference again however.
There is no effective adjustment to the crude out-of-balance-cutout on this washer, the OOBC is just intended to stop the machine as the spin starts if it is badly unbalanced, it will not stop a spin that is reaching full speed.
I dough the hot rubber smell is the brake, more likely the main drive belt, hopefully not the center seal.
John L.
Hi Dave and John, thanks for the observations guys, this sure is interesting!
First the water level, I purposely set it higher as it seems to improve rollover with extra large loads. This may effect the load balancing slightly, however I suspect any negative effect will be minimal. I did that with the 1967 806 I had for several years and like slightly higher water level.
I have confirmed that unbalance switch kicks out properly, I even adjusted it to be a little more sensitive for this soup-ed up machine. During that one spin that was rattling the lid was opened so it wouldn't have kicked out during spin. The rattling may very well been the tub cover properly hitting the kick-out lever but if it was indeed the trip-lever I would think it would have been easily reproduced, but that's just a guess. It could be what John suggested, however there is plenty of space between the top of the tub and the tub cover but I'm not sure. I'll have to wait and see if the sound shows up again and then use that load exactly as is to investigate this.
I don't think the burning smell is coming from the belt. After the spin the belt and motor pulley are only slightly warm, but certainly not hot to the touch. The motor itself is barely even warm since I have the VFD set to limit the motor to 2.4amps maximum during spin acceleration. I did this to allow the tub to spin slowly during pump-out. The belt is adjusted to be firm but not too tight, but snug enough that it never slips. If the belt ever slips at all the VFD would report that to me via an error code and it has never done that. I would also think that if the belt was the cause I would smell it during spin which I don't, that scent only appears once the tub comes to a full stop. It's an unsolved mystery so far. I sure hope it's not the rubber tub seal, but the smell only comes from under the machine, you cannot smell it at within the tub itself. If it does turn out to be the the tub seal as John mentioned, that would be bad news for long-term high-speed spinning in a Maytag, we will see.
I did inject turbine oil via a syringe into the spin bearing's rubber jacket. Hopefully that will penetrate into the bearing, although so far so good.
I'll have to make a video of the 1010rpm spin, it sure is cool.
First the water level, I purposely set it higher as it seems to improve rollover with extra large loads. This may effect the load balancing slightly, however I suspect any negative effect will be minimal. I did that with the 1967 806 I had for several years and like slightly higher water level.
I have confirmed that unbalance switch kicks out properly, I even adjusted it to be a little more sensitive for this soup-ed up machine. During that one spin that was rattling the lid was opened so it wouldn't have kicked out during spin. The rattling may very well been the tub cover properly hitting the kick-out lever but if it was indeed the trip-lever I would think it would have been easily reproduced, but that's just a guess. It could be what John suggested, however there is plenty of space between the top of the tub and the tub cover but I'm not sure. I'll have to wait and see if the sound shows up again and then use that load exactly as is to investigate this.
I don't think the burning smell is coming from the belt. After the spin the belt and motor pulley are only slightly warm, but certainly not hot to the touch. The motor itself is barely even warm since I have the VFD set to limit the motor to 2.4amps maximum during spin acceleration. I did this to allow the tub to spin slowly during pump-out. The belt is adjusted to be firm but not too tight, but snug enough that it never slips. If the belt ever slips at all the VFD would report that to me via an error code and it has never done that. I would also think that if the belt was the cause I would smell it during spin which I don't, that scent only appears once the tub comes to a full stop. It's an unsolved mystery so far. I sure hope it's not the rubber tub seal, but the smell only comes from under the machine, you cannot smell it at within the tub itself. If it does turn out to be the the tub seal as John mentioned, that would be bad news for long-term high-speed spinning in a Maytag, we will see.
I did inject turbine oil via a syringe into the spin bearing's rubber jacket. Hopefully that will penetrate into the bearing, although so far so good.
I'll have to make a video of the 1010rpm spin, it sure is cool.
My modified 806 washer has produced that knocking sound but it was only when I washed a thick/heavy comforter. I never could reproduce it with other loads, even purposely distributed to create an aggressive unbalanced situation. My only guess is that the heavier load spun at faster RPM's causes the outer tub to flex just enough for the inner tub to make contact. Maytag used rather tight gap clearances between the inner/outer tubs compared to other washer designs (GE, GM Frigidaire, ect) and I think this may be the culprit. Next time it occurs, abruptly rock tub left/right just a bit and you'll notice the quick change in direction causes the knock to momentarily increase in amplitude. At least it did for me.
The burning smell is probably the brake if it only occurs during deceleration. You're braking at almost twice the speed it's originally engineered for and the brake lining is probably dry after 40 years, anyway. Use 80/90 gear lube if you don't have Maytag transmission oil on hand. It doesn't take much effort at all to remove/install the pulley to gain access to the brake cavity for lubrication, just a bit of time to properly re-adjust the stop lug clearance. I use an old eye dropper from a herbal tincture bottle I have have laying around to oil the brake package. 2-3 tablespoons of oil should get the job done.
The burning smell is probably the brake if it only occurs during deceleration. You're braking at almost twice the speed it's originally engineered for and the brake lining is probably dry after 40 years, anyway. Use 80/90 gear lube if you don't have Maytag transmission oil on hand. It doesn't take much effort at all to remove/install the pulley to gain access to the brake cavity for lubrication, just a bit of time to properly re-adjust the stop lug clearance. I use an old eye dropper from a herbal tincture bottle I have have laying around to oil the brake package. 2-3 tablespoons of oil should get the job done.
Thanks Dan, I think the brake may be the culprit of the smell, as soon as I can I'm going to add a bit of oil to the brake.
Okay guys, check this out here is a video of the latest spin speed. I upped the spin speed one more increment from 75hz to 76hz, which produced 1019rpm in this rinse spin and 1020rpm in the final spin!
I also figured out how to get it to YouTube in 1080p for best resolution...
Okay guys, check this out here is a video of the latest spin speed. I upped the spin speed one more increment from 75hz to 76hz, which produced 1019rpm in this rinse spin and 1020rpm in the final spin!
I also figured out how to get it to YouTube in 1080p for best resolution...
scrubflex
Well-known member
PHENOMENAL work...AWESOME videos...just GENIUS
ozzie908
Well-known member
So quiet
It sounds better than some new machines ..
Well done its genius what you can do .
Austin
It sounds better than some new machines ..
Well done its genius what you can do .
Austin
Robert has the first "Warp Drive" Maytag.
scrubflex
Well-known member
Hey Unimatic1140, as I said your work is simply genius. I have a Maytag A712 washer with the deep tub, could your upgrades work for my machine. Will it be able to handle the super high spinning forces created from the BIG TUB? BTW, I started searching the internet for the motor, motor controller, potentiometer with control knob and electric pump but, I'd like to know specific choices for the parts. Would you mind telling me? I'll be able to find them online. I was wondering when you find time could you post more pics to get a clearer view of the motor, pump, VFD motor controller, wiring diagram...etc
You know what else would be SPECTACULAR for those who are interested in follow your lead, a 'How To' pic/tutorial---21st Century A107 Maytag washer redesign
Harry
You know what else would be SPECTACULAR for those who are interested in follow your lead, a 'How To' pic/tutorial---21st Century A107 Maytag washer redesign
Harry
Hi Harry, of course. Let me start by saying I have no idea of the Big-Tub will handle any the high speed any better or worse than the standard tub in my machine. That will have be tested.
Next the major parts are here...
Drain Pump: https://amzn.to/2Yb4biE
Potentiometer: https://amzn.to/2JMXhHh
VFD: https://amzn.to/2XQuXh3
Motor: https://amzn.to/2SlUg4t
A few things I'd like to point out, I had an older version of the drain pump in my box-o-pumps so I didn't order that one, but it's the same one as in the link but mine is an older version. I bought the VFD and Potentiometer on Amazon at those links, however the first picture of the VFD on the Amazon page seems to be incorrect, it's the third picture that is correct one (must be a mistake on Amazon). As for the motor I was going to buy that on Amazon at that link but I found the exact same motor for $50 cheaper at Grainger. The relays at I bought at a surplus store over in St. Paul called Axman for cheap, but you can find those online as well. If you need more information on the relays let me know.
I'll get pictures posted shortly.
Next the major parts are here...
Drain Pump: https://amzn.to/2Yb4biE
Potentiometer: https://amzn.to/2JMXhHh
VFD: https://amzn.to/2XQuXh3
Motor: https://amzn.to/2SlUg4t
A few things I'd like to point out, I had an older version of the drain pump in my box-o-pumps so I didn't order that one, but it's the same one as in the link but mine is an older version. I bought the VFD and Potentiometer on Amazon at those links, however the first picture of the VFD on the Amazon page seems to be incorrect, it's the third picture that is correct one (must be a mistake on Amazon). As for the motor I was going to buy that on Amazon at that link but I found the exact same motor for $50 cheaper at Grainger. The relays at I bought at a surplus store over in St. Paul called Axman for cheap, but you can find those online as well. If you need more information on the relays let me know.
I'll get pictures posted shortly.
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Some initial pictures. The foil like substance you see on the side of the cabinet is called KnoNoise. It's meant to stop vibration noise which i really didn't need, but I used it as an extra layer of protection (since it's a very dense material) in case the transmission counter weight gave way during testing.
Under the machine:
The motor:
The VFD and Pump:
And my wiring diagram so far:
Under the machine:
The motor:
The VFD and Pump:
And my wiring diagram so far:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
So if one had to buy a washing machine
- Latest: phillymatt53
-
-
-
-