Opinions Needed on Souping-Up a 1970s Helical Drive Maytag

[combo52]

The 1010 Maytag A207

Wow, Fun progress

 

The noise you got on one of your spins was the top of the basket hitting the tub cover, it has always been difficult to get the basket lined up and centered on the basket mounting stem and the tub covered properly spaced and centered as well.

 

A major part of the problem is production tolerances weren't that good on the stamping and welding on the outer tub and wash baskets and they never intended these washers to spin this fast. I put a new center seal in a 1991 MT washer a few weeks ago and had a terrible time getting everything lined up to keep the basket from hitting the tub cover occasionally.

 

The problem is the basket flexes enough to hit the tub cover and if the heavy part of the load ends up on the side of the basket that is too close you may get some contact with the tub cover, but you might put the same unbalanced load in 10 times and never get the interference again however.

 

There is no effective adjustment to the crude out-of-balance-cutout  on this washer, the OOBC is just intended to stop the machine as the spin starts if it is badly unbalanced, it will not stop a spin that is reaching full speed.

 

I dough the hot rubber smell is the brake, more likely the main drive belt, hopefully not the center seal.

 

John L.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Dave and John, thanks for the observations guys, this sure is interesting!

First the water level, I purposely set it higher as it seems to improve rollover with extra large loads. This may effect the load balancing slightly, however I suspect any negative effect will be minimal. I did that with the 1967 806 I had for several years and like slightly higher water level.

I have confirmed that unbalance switch kicks out properly, I even adjusted it to be a little more sensitive for this soup-ed up machine. During that one spin that was rattling the lid was opened so it wouldn't have kicked out during spin. The rattling may very well been the tub cover properly hitting the kick-out lever but if it was indeed the trip-lever I would think it would have been easily reproduced, but that's just a guess. It could be what John suggested, however there is plenty of space between the top of the tub and the tub cover but I'm not sure. I'll have to wait and see if the sound shows up again and then use that load exactly as is to investigate this.

I don't think the burning smell is coming from the belt. After the spin the belt and motor pulley are only slightly warm, but certainly not hot to the touch. The motor itself is barely even warm since I have the VFD set to limit the motor to 2.4amps maximum during spin acceleration. I did this to allow the tub to spin slowly during pump-out. The belt is adjusted to be firm but not too tight, but snug enough that it never slips. If the belt ever slips at all the VFD would report that to me via an error code and it has never done that. I would also think that if the belt was the cause I would smell it during spin which I don't, that scent only appears once the tub comes to a full stop. It's an unsolved mystery so far. I sure hope it's not the rubber tub seal, but the smell only comes from under the machine, you cannot smell it at within the tub itself. If it does turn out to be the the tub seal as John mentioned, that would be bad news for long-term high-speed spinning in a Maytag, we will see.

I did inject turbine oil via a syringe into the spin bearing's rubber jacket. Hopefully that will penetrate into the bearing, although so far so good.

I'll have to make a video of the 1010rpm spin, it sure is cool.

 

[qsd-dan]

My modified 806 washer has produced that knocking sound but it was only when I washed a thick/heavy comforter. I never could reproduce it with other loads, even purposely distributed to create an aggressive unbalanced situation. My only guess is that the heavier load spun at faster RPM's causes the outer tub to flex just enough for the inner tub to make contact. Maytag used rather tight gap clearances between the inner/outer tubs compared to other washer designs (GE, GM Frigidaire, ect) and I think this may be the culprit. Next time it occurs, abruptly rock tub left/right just a bit and you'll notice the quick change in direction causes the knock to momentarily increase in amplitude. At least it did for me.

The burning smell is probably the brake if it only occurs during deceleration. You're braking at almost twice the speed it's originally engineered for and the brake lining is probably dry after 40 years, anyway. Use 80/90 gear lube if you don't have Maytag transmission oil on hand. It doesn't take much effort at all to remove/install the pulley to gain access to the brake cavity for lubrication, just a bit of time to properly re-adjust the stop lug clearance. I use an old eye dropper from a herbal tincture bottle I have have laying around to oil the brake package. 2-3 tablespoons of oil should get the job done.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Thanks Dan, I think the brake may be the culprit of the smell, as soon as I can I'm going to add a bit of oil to the brake.

Okay guys, check this out here is a video of the latest spin speed. I upped the spin speed one more increment from 75hz to 76hz, which produced 1019rpm in this rinse spin and 1020rpm in the final spin!

I also figured out how to get it to YouTube in 1080p for best resolution...

 

[scrubflex]

PHENOMENAL work...AWESOME videos...just GENIUS

 

[ozzie908]

So quiet

It sounds better than some new machines ..
Well done its genius what you can do .
Austin

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

Robert has the first "Warp Drive" Maytag.

 

[scrubflex]

Hey Unimatic1140, as I said your work is simply genius. I have a Maytag A712 washer with the deep tub, could your upgrades work for my machine. Will it be able to handle the super high spinning forces created from the BIG TUB? BTW, I started searching the internet for the motor, motor controller, potentiometer with control knob and electric pump but, I'd like to know specific choices for the parts. Would you mind telling me? I'll be able to find them online. I was wondering when you find time could you post more pics to get a clearer view of the motor, pump, VFD motor controller, wiring diagram...etc
You know what else would be SPECTACULAR for those who are interested in follow your lead, a 'How To' pic/tutorial---21st Century A107 Maytag washer redesign

Harry

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Harry, of course. Let me start by saying I have no idea of the Big-Tub will handle any the high speed any better or worse than the standard tub in my machine. That will have be tested.

Next the major parts are here...

Drain Pump: https://amzn.to/2Yb4biE

Potentiometer: https://amzn.to/2JMXhHh

VFD: https://amzn.to/2XQuXh3

Motor: https://amzn.to/2SlUg4t

A few things I'd like to point out, I had an older version of the drain pump in my box-o-pumps so I didn't order that one, but it's the same one as in the link but mine is an older version. I bought the VFD and Potentiometer on Amazon at those links, however the first picture of the VFD on the Amazon page seems to be incorrect, it's the third picture that is correct one (must be a mistake on Amazon). As for the motor I was going to buy that on Amazon at that link but I found the exact same motor for $50 cheaper at Grainger. The relays at I bought at a surplus store over in St. Paul called Axman for cheap, but you can find those online as well. If you need more information on the relays let me know.

I'll get pictures posted shortly.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Some initial pictures. The foil like substance you see on the side of the cabinet is called KnoNoise. It's meant to stop vibration noise which i really didn't need, but I used it as an extra layer of protection (since it's a very dense material) in case the transmission counter weight gave way during testing.

Under the machine:

The motor:

The VFD and Pump:

And my wiring diagram so far:

 

[scrubflex]

You're AWESOME Robert, thanks so much for the additional pics and diagram drawing...continue to lead with more 21st Century 'REDESIGNS'. How about a test video of a full load of jeans? And, maybe a comforter, if it can fit.

 

[akronman]

Hi Robert!

It's all entirely cool and beyond my electronic abilities for sure! One weird thought though: I see there's an added clamp alonf the front edge of the cabinet to hold the motor plastic guard in place, and a small hole drilled on the other side of the cabinet's front edge for a wire. gCan you put the cabit front back on? I always found Maytag's need the front back on once you're done with repairs, to stabilize and square up the entire machine, reduce vibrations, etc. Hmmmm....

Fantastic inspiring work there!

 

[Unimatic1140]

I see there's an added clamp alonf the front edge of the cabinet to hold the motor plastic guard in place, and a small hole drilled on the other side of the cabinet's front edge for a wire. Can you put the cabinet front back on?

Hi Mark, oh yes I definitely want the front panel to be on when I'm running the machine at 1000rpm + speed. It's hard to see but if you look closely the custom bracket I made to hold the water/spray guard over the motor doesn't come out as far as the support bracket to hold the front panel does. So the guard bracket doesn't come out far enough to reach the front panel. Not to mention it wouldn't be too pretty of a machine without it's a front panel!

Btw, yesterday I oiled the Brake Assembly and this stopped the slight burning smell at the end of spin. The dried out brake pads was for sure the culprit.

 

[akronman]

Thank you Robert

For the explanation, you do fine work!

 

[Unimatic1140]

I know, I know, total blasphemy!

And now my new controls and indicator are installed, wired up and working. I will print out decals with text indicating what the do soon. I'll see if I can match the super cute Maytag font that are on the buttons.

Care to guess what even one does from left to right?

 

[repairguy]

HOT ROD MAYTAG!!!

 

[qsd-dan]

Care to guess what even one does from left to right?

My WAG is:

Timer bypass switch

Electric pump bypass switch

Agitation/Spin speed control potentiometer

Indicator light for electric pump operation or just indicating the machine is running.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Those are cool ideas for manual control Dan, but that's not what I did...

 

[scrubflex]

WOW...WOW...just wow, so AMAZING Robert. It's unbelievable that we're in the day and age of being able to "design our own" washing machines.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Maytag Souped Up By the Wand of Unimatic..!!

Another great project Robert, really enjoyed following it and glad your back on the VFD projects...The Maytag sounds like its coping well with the extra speed, very often its the slightly faster speeds that smoothe the revs and reverbs out...

We only had the Hotpoint with SpiraClean agitator that spun a super fast , my partner in crime has just mentioned.."Oh, could the Hotpoint souped up outdo the Unimatic1140 ? have just done the maths and only 95 rpm needed to challenge the Unimatic 1140
Hhmmm….lol , but we all know it takes more than scribbles on paper !! Carry on the great work !!

 

[Unimatic1140]

have just done the maths and only 95 rpm needed to challenge the Unimatic 1140

95 rpm is nearly nothing Mike, that machine surely should be able to take that speed increase easily and even higher if you wish I would assume. Of course "famous last words" but it would be interesting to see what you guys come up with.

The only issue I see so far with spinning the Maytag over 1000rpm is when the tub is completely empty the perforations in the tub cause a loud whistle. This really is a non-issue because I won't run the machine empty normally. Time to increase the speed another 20rpm this morning!

 

[scrubflex]

So the half-point of the VAS will be 66.5 oscillations per min...the new regular speed

 

[Chetlaham]

Thank you for doing this! Please do more! I want to see more VFD machines.

 

[sfh074]

Next time .....

instead of "total blasphemy" ..... please make a separate control panel for the auxiliary controls and mount said control panel to the top or side ..... using 2-sided tape.

I'm still not over the blasphemy committed on the last machine you modified. Don't
get me wrong, I love your mods under the hood! IMHO the original control panel should stay pristine.

 

[Unimatic1140]

So the half-point of the VAS will be 66.5 oscillations per min...the new regular speed

Actually it's not easy to count the agitator strokes and get it exact, but I set the center point of dial (by adjusting it's position on the shaft with it's set screw) to align to 68 strokes per minute or approximately so.

Thank you for doing this! Please do more! I want to see more VFD machines.

I plan on that for sure in time. I'd like to do try this to a 80s or 90s perforated tub Speed Queen at some point as well.

please make a separate control panel for the auxiliary controls and mount said control panel to the top or side ..... using 2-sided tape.

I agree with you Bud for super old or rare machines that no changes or souping up should occur, however in my opinion this machine isn't rare enough to worry about not adding a few controls to the original control panel. There are so many of these style Maytag washers still around which is a testament to Maytag's quality and durability. They are so common in fact that just doing a quick search of Minneapolis Craigslist I see another version of the same style machine for sale, next week I'll probably find another one and so on. Now I was more careful when I did the '58 GE washer to hide the new controls inconspicuously on the side of the control panel as that machine is more rare, but still there are several of those machines out there too.

Now question for the Maytag experts. When I first got this machine I pulled the agitator out and found the bottom of the agitator shaft, seal and protective cover were completely covered in lint and limescale. I assume that means that the air-bubble that is suppose to be under the agitator is no longer working? How important is it to maintain that air-bubble? I also assume this hole in the agitator somehow related to that air-bubble, I wonder what would cause it to stop working?

 

[gizmo]

Hi Robert

Now you need to get a stainless steel basket from an Australian Wilkins Servis version of these machines.

freight would appear a problem, perhaps if you wiggle your nose side-to-side, one will appear?

 

[Unimatic1140]

Now for my next experiment!

This looks so weird! I discovered that the Maytag agitator shaft is exactly 3/4" in diameter, and as it just so happens Beam/Speed Queen and Whirlpool/Kenmore agitator shafts are also exactly 3/4", meaning using a 3/4" shaft coupling and a spare agitator shaft cut to size works! The agitator fits perfectly!

If anyone is wondering the the coupling I used is here: Shaft Coupling. Eventually I will get the more expensive stainless steel version.

I've spent quite a bit of time scrubbing the limescale off of the bottom of the tub, the entire bottom under the agitator was covered, I've got it pretty much off except for the outer ring. Limescale also covered the mounting stem seal and bottom of agitator shaft. This was the reason I asked about the air bubble under the agitator. However it appears after my testing and adding a fresh rubber seal under the Easy agitator cap that the air bubble is maintained with the Easy agitator! The new agitator completely changes the wash action to say the least. I'll get working on some video soon after I find my spare Beam agitator shaft to try Speed Queen, Wizard and Coronado agitators. I can do a comparison of all four agitators. Whirlpool and Kenmore agitators are too tall to fit in the standard machine (and be able to close the lid), but after seeing the video Eugene did I know they will fit perfectly in the big-tub machine. The GE agitator shaft is thinner than 3/4", however a reducing coupling would easily work with GE designed agitators.

I was completely shocked how well this works, the agitator is solid no play or side movement what so ever in the agitator or shaft. For all intents and purposes it looks and feels like this was made in Newton.

 

[frigilux]

Absolutely freaking brilliant. Looking forward to seeing the differences in water/clothes movement patterns with various agitators. Five star review based on ingenuity and fun factor! You've set the bar pretty damn high, Robert.

 

[yogitunes]

PURE INGENIOUS.....Love it!

I tried a few different agitators in Maytags...and found with the long stroke pitman transmission, Ramped versions seemed to be the best, it adds a whole new level of turnover that these machines should have had from the start...even with a machine that has not been modified...

plus your available speed adjustment for agitation, should be easy to find that sweet spot for perfect turnover....

some people don't realize that finding the perfect match of agitator design, length of stroke, and speed of agitation make some machines better than others...

I wouldn't mind doing this mod to a machine, just to be used as a spinner for better extraction before the dryer...

on some machines, that whistle during spin while empty was an indicator that it was running at a perfect speed....if it didn't, you knew something was wrong....

 

[Unimatic1140]

So here is what the Easy Spiralator looks like installed in the Maytag. This wash load consists of my 4 huge bath towels which measure 5 and 1/2 feet x 3 feet they are very plush as well. This is the start of the wash cycle, I don't use a power boost with the Spiralator as it's not needed. The Maytag agitator turns these towels over as well, but the power-boost gets things moving much faster with the original Maytag agitator.

I love how natural this agitator looks in the Maytag, if you didn't know it you wouldn't know it's not the original agitator! I set the agitation speed to approximately 62 strokes per minute, which is what the Easy transmission does...