Parenting: What would YOU do?

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I'd use a contraceptive.

Having a child is 20 minutes worth of work for a man and at least 20 years worth of work for a woman, well for quality product, anyway.

That is a mightly long commitment. Wn't do the time? Don't do the crime.
 
Small children are neither rational nor self-cleaning. These are two of four reasons why I have none. Having said that, kids make noise. It's their stock in trade. Little kids get hysterical over nothing, occasionally. It's why we don't let them drive or decide what's for dinner.

If it appeared the child couldn't be calmed, the crew should have politely explained to the family they would have to leave the plane, but would be put on the next available flight, giving the parents time to sedate the toddler. I'm mean, what else are airport bars for, right?

Instead, they treated the family like crap and it hit the national news. That's why they had to give them free tickets. Had the airline's behavior toward the family been more civil, all the bad press and free tickets would have been avoided.

Now, had the offensive offspring been, oh, say, 16 years old, then less civility would have been required. But a 3-year old is not a rational being. They scream; they're three.

I think the airline got what it deserved.
 
Airtran should be TOUGHER

My opinion differs somewhat. No matter what Airtran did to try to fix the situation quickly they were going to look bad. Big, bad airline against poor little family...
People (customers, clients) do NOT like to hear that THEY are doing something wrong so any corrective action by Airtran (or any airline) would not be taken well.
I would give the difficult client (and their child) an ultimatum. Get the kid in the chair, do it now or we're escorting you off. There is NO REASON why an airplane full of busy people should be delayed due to one uncontrollable brat. Airtran's giving the customer a free ticket or whatever is just the cost of doing business. Get the troublesome customer off our planes, make nice-nice afterward for damage control - the hope like hell they never grace your doorstep again!
 
Did you see them the next morning???

On one of the early news shows they interviewed the family who was horrified of the way they were treated. The little "brat" couldn't sit still was all over her parents and finally just ran off. (t was filmed in their living room.) I guess I was raised in the dog era of child rearing. Sit meant sit and stay meant stay and be quiet meant be quiet. And if I didn't obey, I knew the consequences--and they weren't pretty! And Lawsy, never, NEVER have to be taken out during church; talk about God's Holy Wrath!

duetboy
aka jeff
 
Taking Ownership

No one wants to take ownership anymore. If I were that parent I would have been horrified. My mother would have given me the look and it would have been done... end of discussion. I don't remember ever being spanked, yelled at or any other violent means of punishment... just the look.

I think the airline was more than generous by offering them a ticket for the next day. What parent would be so selfish and have a child with an ear infection board a plane and wonder why the child was frantic getting back on the plane..
 
I don't have children, but I come from a huge extended family (66 cousins, 32 second cousins, at last count), and I look after a toddler quite frequently, so I have a little bit of experience in this area.

First off, the airline was perfectly justified in what they did. The other passengers on that plane had places to be, some had connections to make. That airplane was needed down the line for other flights. They shouldn't be exepected to have to drop everything because some child wouldn't behave. Maybe they weren't "polite" enough (I don't know, I wasn't there.) But they looked after the best interest of the passengers.

Second, what's with these parents? If a child I was looking after had a tantrum like that, and I'm not fool enough to think it wouldn't happen, I would be mortified. I would accept the refund and free tickets gratefully, and I would keep my trap shut about it.

Note that I am not blaming the parents for the kid's tantrum, nor am I blaming the kid. Kids spaz out all the time, especially after what was probably a long day and a lot of excitement. But airlines don't have to be concerned with that: They're there to get people from point A to point B safely and efficiently, and as pleasently as possible. A screaming kid is not pleasent.

Bottom line: AirTran did the right thing (kicking them off) and the gracious thing (refunding and offering tickets). The parents are now the ones misbehaving. They seem like the type of people who - when they don't get their own way - make a big stink and accuse anyone who doesn't bend over for them of being "rude". There's lots of people out there like that (They're a dime a dozen in hotels and restaurants), and they're just big babies.

Just my .02
 
The baggage area

might be just the place for these people.

(joking?)

I wish Airwaycharlie would chime in. I bet he has a few things to say!

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
"The parents are now the ones misbehaving. They seem like the type of people who - when they don't get their own way - make a big stink and accuse anyone who doesn't bend over for them of being "rude". There's lots of people out there like that (They're a dime a dozen in hotels and restaurants), and they're just big babies."

I am in total agreement with this statement.

It doesn't take a village-or an entire aircraft of people-to raise a child.

It needs only the adult or adults who are responsible for their presence.
 
This has been a topic of discussion on a few pilot websites as of late. See my link at the end

My own personal opinion is that the Flight Attendants were correct, the FAA stipulates that the Flight Attendants must have the cabin secured for any aircraft movement. This includes all passengers are seated and buckled in. It is their responsibility. Having a little kid that controls her parents by using tantrums to hold up a flight is unacceptable. This is preventing the flight attendants from performing their duty. Airlines lose money by having delays. And if anyone misses a connection at the other end, AirTran would be liable for getting them to their destination, even if it means transfering them to another airline. This also costs money.
I think AirTran should have offered them a refund, or rebook on another flight, period. They should not have offered additional compensation.
I am afraid now that this has happened, we will see a rash of
people trying to get free tickets utilizing this "strategy".
 
I'm not saying they should have been allowed to stay on the plane. You can't hold up a plane over a screaming 3-year old, nor does anyone want to endure an entire flight to that soundtrack.

But they were treated badly by the airline once they were back in the terminal. The airline didn't start being gracious until the story went national. Had they just helped the family get on the next plane, we wouldn't have heard anything about the incident.
 
I'm not sure.

Here in New York, a twelve-year old kid was recently struck and killed by a speeding commuter train, after he climbed on to the tracks and tagged (sprayed graffiti on) a signal box.

The parents almost immediately retained a lawyer in order to sue the railroad.

Who ultimately should be held responsible for his death? The parents, for improperly supervising the evening activities of their kid, or the railroad, for allowing fencing that, in other , more civilized countries would not even be considered necessary?

I'm no fan of corporations or transportation conglomerates, but at some point, there needs to be order. The train may be a bad comparison to the airplane, but to pander to the parents who refuse to control their children sends a dangerous precedent.
 
Toddler Tantrums!

I viewed this story as both a parent and a airline customer. I think that it is inappropriate for parents to take small children on a flight if the tots can't behave. There is nothing worse than being cooped up on an airplane with a wailing child. It's like being in a soup can with a banshee!

I took my oldest child on their first flight at 21 months. I made sure I had a bulkhead seat (lots of room) reserved and plenty of entertainment and snacks. There was not a peep to be heard. Had my child misbehaved and proceeded to throw any sort of tantrum, I would have de-planed. We are only two out of, let's say, 150. It would be unfair for the rest of the people on the flight to have to suffer. I believe Bill Cosby had a great routine about a misbehaving child on a looooonnnnnng flight. It was pretty hilarious.

In short, the airline did the right thing. The parents were no longer in control of the situation; the toddler was. They all needed to be removed from the flight. Of course, the parents probably pitched a fit of their own and contacted the media for some sympathetic face time. I'm sure the airline will be hearing from their lawyers soon (yawn).

People need to take responsibility for themselves and their children. It is selfish for parents to allow their children to misbehave and disrupt flights, dinners, or movies. Get a grip folks, do the right thing, and save us all a big headache.
 
Again, I wasn't there, but it just seems fishy to me.

When I worked for Four Seasons Hotel here in Seattle, I used to write the responses to comment cards that we would receive. (The manager would always review and sign them, but it was my job to try to come up with something that addressed the comments.)

People would write the most outlandish things. One guy actually claimed to have been unable to consumate his marriage on his wedding night because of a missed turn-down service and, of course, a "rude" room attendant. He was going to go to "the media" if we didn't give him a free weekend in a suite, presumably to try again. Our Manager, a true old-school hotelier and gentleman, didn't take that kind of crap. We basically told him to go ahead and tell "the media" about his little problem.

The "news" encourages this kind of bad behavior of course, because they are always looking for something sensational to get their panties in a bunch about. In the end, the story is this: A flight attendant was "rude" to a family. That's hardly anything to stop the presses over ;-)

And a word about suing: There's always a lot of talk about "frivolous lawsuits", but most of it is just that: talk. Unless a lawyer thinks he can make money on a case, it's not going to happen. But people love to say that they are going to sue. Most people have no idea what that even means.
 
No turn-down a turn off?

If that guy didn't have the strength to turn down his own bedspread, how was he going to find the energy to consumate his marriage? Honey puleeze!
 
Spoiled Children

Here is my opinoin for what it is worth. I am 35 year veteran in the classroom. Parents are not being parents, as a rule; they want to be the kids best friend etc. I think the parents had better get a hold on this kid now, because when it is 16 or so, they are going to rue the day that they didn't make this monster behave. I think a good spanking is what this kid needed way before this trip on the plane. Set rules, stick to them and you are on the way to success; don't and you could have a neurotic child on your hands who has no clue what is right from wrong. This b/s about letting the kid explore his options etc. is just an excuse so the parents don't have discipline the kid. A 7th grader in my classes (Lang. Arts, Reading and Spelling) recently earned an F in those classes for the semester because he has done F work or the lack there of. I sent a letter home and said that I am going to recommmend that he be retained in 7th grade for next year. After several phone calls, notes home etc. this finally got the mother's attention. "What can I do?" I told her that it may be a good idea for her to stay home and not spend all night long at the local tavern most nights and that she needs to be in charge; lol like that will happen. I am retiring from school at the end of May and will be glad to be rid of all the nonesense and all of the excuses why "my kid is the way he is!" Oh please, get a grip. Ok, sorry for this. Have fun. Gary
 
Allen:

They'll never fly AirTran again? Boy did AirTran luck out. They will probably have even more ridership, as customers know there will be no "screamers" on their flights!!
 
I hate making a double post, but...

You are so right on Gary! Parents are not only leaving the childrearing to school teachers, but are jumping on the instructors for disciplining their offspring! Go figure!!

I have a friend who was a teacher in the public school system. Her class was difficult, and she expected her students to actually learn. When it came time to dole out report cards, the popular jocks and jockettes were shocked to find out that they were failing her class. Of course, the parents took issue with the fact that a teacher was failing their little darlings (no, the parents are actually failing them), and summoned the principal in for conferences. In the end, because of the emphasis on athletics, the principal caved in and did not back up the teacher. She has since left teaching. Another example of why so many great teachers are leaving the profession.
 
Babes In Ballisticland

I only wish more institutions and businesses open to the public would take polite but firm steps to rid themselves of screamers. As many a restauranteur and store owner can tell you, it doesn't take much of a kiddie tantrum to start clearing out the adult, paying customers.

It has to be handled with courtesy, of course, but there is no reason that people who have paid to enjoy an evening out or a shopping excursion should have to bear the sound of a tantrum.

Any parent who permits a child to make life hell for a roomful of adults is a "customer" you don't need.
 
It will be far worse when the first generation of "homeschooled" children begin to actually have children.

This is a societal disaster waiting to happen, and it is absolutely not being addressed, except when cases like this come to light.

Customers have to learn to be aggressive about complaining to management as it happens.
 
They're Heeeeeeere...

Oxy:

Actually, what you envision has been going on for about fifteen years; it's one of the reasons I'm grateful I got to bid Corporate America adieu and pursue other career options.

About 1992 or so, I began to notice that young people coming into the workplace had less than no idea of the "rules of the road". They didn't understand about dress codes, they didn't see any particular need to show up on time, they didn't think there was anything wrong with starting the workday unshaven or with hair still wet from the shower and a sackful of Mickey D's for a leisurely breakfast at their desk.

I saw this generation blow off sales with unthinking rudeness to clients and a "manana" attitude towards fulfilling commitments. Later, when these people assumed some managerial responsibility, I saw serious ethical problems involving company funds and contractual double-speak. One manager under whom I worked was shifting sales he had nothing to do with away from sales reps who'd actually done the work, pocketing commissions he had not earned. These embezzlements funded his BMW, his Rolex, his Montblanc pen, and his high-roller lunches. Upper management did not listen until finally the sales reps formed a posse and got the D.A. to investigate. Mr. Wonderful, who eventually did eighteen months in stir, got all upset because the company fired him- he actually expected to come back to his job, with all forgiven and forgotten.

We have at least two generations out there now who have never been accountable to ANYBODY. Their transgressions have been overlooked, or forgiven, or explained away for them. They have no moral compass whatever, because they've essentially raised themselves. They think whatever they do is okay, because it works for THEM.

They're out there, and they're everywhere. Especially Washington.
 
"...he actually expected to come back to his job, with all forgiven and forgotten..."

ROFLMAO....yes, welcome to my world (I was in financial services)...

And the attitude you get back, upon the look of amazement you cannot hold back upon hearing such a thing, is:

"But, hey, I took the hit for you guys...I'd think I could expect a little LOYALTY, you know??"

Willful malfeasance. The "leaders" know full well what they do, and their lemmings follow them without a clue.

Not a pretty picture, I totally agree.
 
Please note: The family was removed from the plane because the kid would not sit in a seat and be strapped in. The parents and media are saying the family was removed because of the screaming and the tantrum. Not true. Many a flight takes off with screaming kids who are strapped in. Airtran reiterates this time and time again but still the media plays up the tantrum rather than the safety issue the brat posed. I believe this happened on an Orlando (Disneyworld) flight; I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often, and it attests to how bad the kid and the parents actually were! Regardless, if the kid was just strapped in, even if screaming, none of this would probably have happened.

This little monster crawled under the seat in front of her parents and refused to come out. On top of that, the parents refused to use force to remove her from under there and instead were trying to verbally calm her and coax her out. "Come on, sweetie, we can't go until you come out" and such. I would love to hear how they actually got the kid out from under the seat and got her off the plane. The compensation offered by Airtran was more than adequate and very generous.

Go Airtran!
 
I agree with Airtran all the way!

If my kids ever acted like that, they would have been removed from the situation immediately. I would be totally embarassed that it was happening that I would want to get off the plane.

My daughter has never had a fit anywhere. Even when she was little, she always was perfect. My son on the other hand was (and still is) totally opposite of her. He was not raised any different than she was but he was just came out that way. He used to pitch a fit when he didn't get his way at the grocery, Target, etc. The only thing I could do was to just pick him up and leave the store, with all my stuff in a cart sitting in an aisle. I don't like doing it but it makes my son learn that he is not going to get his way by acting like that. He is much better now that he is 4 and we hardly ever have issues unless it is in the afternoon when he is getting tired (too young to give up naps but he thinks he is too old to need one).

I totallly feel for the people who got kicked off but you cannot just "talk" to a child who is that age and have them do what you want if they are in a tantrum. Especially if they have never set boundries with the child before. It just doesn't work. My kids know that if they act like that, there will be consequences when we get to the car or at home. I do not spank but will give them a "swat" on the butt to show then that I am serious. I have only had to actually swat a couple of times in their lives, my tone of voice and the look on my face says it all!
 
Rather than coddling these irresponsible parents with free tickets and incentives, how about the airline, the airport, and/or regulatory authorities levying fines and/or charges for the disruption to the nation's travel system, at a time where more emphasis should be dedicated to security, aircraft maintenance, and the staff and passengers who actually know how to behave and interact with other people?
 
Stories like this really piss me off!!! Just because two people can get their pants off and reproduce it not a license for "special treatment".I've raised 4 children...3 steps and one biological...it would be a cold day in hell before I let a 3 year old dictate what he or she would or would not do....and sitting your bottom down in a seat so a airplane can take off is something that's not up for discussion...where do these parents get off thinking they've been wronged? I noticed in the above a few folks made the comment "when my kids were that age"...I really try not to say that...but I think it constantly..esp. in resturants and church. I never let my children run in a resturant..firstly because it was rude to bother other patons..but mainly because I did'nt want a pervert to pick them up and and run off. And these parents that think it's cute for their baby to coo, and cry through church just slays me..there's a time and place for everything!!!! Why do I have the feeling I'm preaching to the choir?...LOL!!!! enough of my soap box...I actually had to take a friend of mine...whom is childless..down a notch or two over the weekend discussing this air plane story.
 
What we have rampantly ocurring is children having children. These people don't have a clue about child-rearing. Any boomer can tell you what works when it comes to discipline, yet so many of them chose not to practice these same methods with their own kids and this has begun what appears to be an irreverisible trend across generations.

I have nothing but contempt for parents who CHOOSE not to control their kids. There is no sense of responsibility and because of this, as stated above, shool teachers end up spending more time trying to control their classes than teaching anything. From this crop of kids will come the future leaders of the country. Canada just keeps looking better and better, if I could just stand the cold.
 
Ralph, it isn't any better here either. A lot more "me first" and I'm special attitudes than there used to be. Still in all I think the majority of kids are ok when it comes right down to it.
 
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