Retro, You hit the nail on the head! Thanks buddy, Gary
Parenting: What would YOU do?
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danemodsandy
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Babes In Ballisticland
I only wish more institutions and businesses open to the public would take polite but firm steps to rid themselves of screamers. As many a restauranteur and store owner can tell you, it doesn't take much of a kiddie tantrum to start clearing out the adult, paying customers.
It has to be handled with courtesy, of course, but there is no reason that people who have paid to enjoy an evening out or a shopping excursion should have to bear the sound of a tantrum.
Any parent who permits a child to make life hell for a roomful of adults is a "customer" you don't need.
I only wish more institutions and businesses open to the public would take polite but firm steps to rid themselves of screamers. As many a restauranteur and store owner can tell you, it doesn't take much of a kiddie tantrum to start clearing out the adult, paying customers.
It has to be handled with courtesy, of course, but there is no reason that people who have paid to enjoy an evening out or a shopping excursion should have to bear the sound of a tantrum.
Any parent who permits a child to make life hell for a roomful of adults is a "customer" you don't need.
oxydolfan1
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It will be far worse when the first generation of "homeschooled" children begin to actually have children.
This is a societal disaster waiting to happen, and it is absolutely not being addressed, except when cases like this come to light.
Customers have to learn to be aggressive about complaining to management as it happens.
This is a societal disaster waiting to happen, and it is absolutely not being addressed, except when cases like this come to light.
Customers have to learn to be aggressive about complaining to management as it happens.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
They're Heeeeeeere...
Oxy:
Actually, what you envision has been going on for about fifteen years; it's one of the reasons I'm grateful I got to bid Corporate America adieu and pursue other career options.
About 1992 or so, I began to notice that young people coming into the workplace had less than no idea of the "rules of the road". They didn't understand about dress codes, they didn't see any particular need to show up on time, they didn't think there was anything wrong with starting the workday unshaven or with hair still wet from the shower and a sackful of Mickey D's for a leisurely breakfast at their desk.
I saw this generation blow off sales with unthinking rudeness to clients and a "manana" attitude towards fulfilling commitments. Later, when these people assumed some managerial responsibility, I saw serious ethical problems involving company funds and contractual double-speak. One manager under whom I worked was shifting sales he had nothing to do with away from sales reps who'd actually done the work, pocketing commissions he had not earned. These embezzlements funded his BMW, his Rolex, his Montblanc pen, and his high-roller lunches. Upper management did not listen until finally the sales reps formed a posse and got the D.A. to investigate. Mr. Wonderful, who eventually did eighteen months in stir, got all upset because the company fired him- he actually expected to come back to his job, with all forgiven and forgotten.
We have at least two generations out there now who have never been accountable to ANYBODY. Their transgressions have been overlooked, or forgiven, or explained away for them. They have no moral compass whatever, because they've essentially raised themselves. They think whatever they do is okay, because it works for THEM.
They're out there, and they're everywhere. Especially Washington.
Oxy:
Actually, what you envision has been going on for about fifteen years; it's one of the reasons I'm grateful I got to bid Corporate America adieu and pursue other career options.
About 1992 or so, I began to notice that young people coming into the workplace had less than no idea of the "rules of the road". They didn't understand about dress codes, they didn't see any particular need to show up on time, they didn't think there was anything wrong with starting the workday unshaven or with hair still wet from the shower and a sackful of Mickey D's for a leisurely breakfast at their desk.
I saw this generation blow off sales with unthinking rudeness to clients and a "manana" attitude towards fulfilling commitments. Later, when these people assumed some managerial responsibility, I saw serious ethical problems involving company funds and contractual double-speak. One manager under whom I worked was shifting sales he had nothing to do with away from sales reps who'd actually done the work, pocketing commissions he had not earned. These embezzlements funded his BMW, his Rolex, his Montblanc pen, and his high-roller lunches. Upper management did not listen until finally the sales reps formed a posse and got the D.A. to investigate. Mr. Wonderful, who eventually did eighteen months in stir, got all upset because the company fired him- he actually expected to come back to his job, with all forgiven and forgotten.
We have at least two generations out there now who have never been accountable to ANYBODY. Their transgressions have been overlooked, or forgiven, or explained away for them. They have no moral compass whatever, because they've essentially raised themselves. They think whatever they do is okay, because it works for THEM.
They're out there, and they're everywhere. Especially Washington.
oxydolfan1
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"...he actually expected to come back to his job, with all forgiven and forgotten..."
ROFLMAO....yes, welcome to my world (I was in financial services)...
And the attitude you get back, upon the look of amazement you cannot hold back upon hearing such a thing, is:
"But, hey, I took the hit for you guys...I'd think I could expect a little LOYALTY, you know??"
Willful malfeasance. The "leaders" know full well what they do, and their lemmings follow them without a clue.
Not a pretty picture, I totally agree.
ROFLMAO....yes, welcome to my world (I was in financial services)...
And the attitude you get back, upon the look of amazement you cannot hold back upon hearing such a thing, is:
"But, hey, I took the hit for you guys...I'd think I could expect a little LOYALTY, you know??"
Willful malfeasance. The "leaders" know full well what they do, and their lemmings follow them without a clue.
Not a pretty picture, I totally agree.
Please note: The family was removed from the plane because the kid would not sit in a seat and be strapped in. The parents and media are saying the family was removed because of the screaming and the tantrum. Not true. Many a flight takes off with screaming kids who are strapped in. Airtran reiterates this time and time again but still the media plays up the tantrum rather than the safety issue the brat posed. I believe this happened on an Orlando (Disneyworld) flight; I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often, and it attests to how bad the kid and the parents actually were! Regardless, if the kid was just strapped in, even if screaming, none of this would probably have happened.
This little monster crawled under the seat in front of her parents and refused to come out. On top of that, the parents refused to use force to remove her from under there and instead were trying to verbally calm her and coax her out. "Come on, sweetie, we can't go until you come out" and such. I would love to hear how they actually got the kid out from under the seat and got her off the plane. The compensation offered by Airtran was more than adequate and very generous.
Go Airtran!
This little monster crawled under the seat in front of her parents and refused to come out. On top of that, the parents refused to use force to remove her from under there and instead were trying to verbally calm her and coax her out. "Come on, sweetie, we can't go until you come out" and such. I would love to hear how they actually got the kid out from under the seat and got her off the plane. The compensation offered by Airtran was more than adequate and very generous.
Go Airtran!
I agree with Airtran all the way!
If my kids ever acted like that, they would have been removed from the situation immediately. I would be totally embarassed that it was happening that I would want to get off the plane.
My daughter has never had a fit anywhere. Even when she was little, she always was perfect. My son on the other hand was (and still is) totally opposite of her. He was not raised any different than she was but he was just came out that way. He used to pitch a fit when he didn't get his way at the grocery, Target, etc. The only thing I could do was to just pick him up and leave the store, with all my stuff in a cart sitting in an aisle. I don't like doing it but it makes my son learn that he is not going to get his way by acting like that. He is much better now that he is 4 and we hardly ever have issues unless it is in the afternoon when he is getting tired (too young to give up naps but he thinks he is too old to need one).
I totallly feel for the people who got kicked off but you cannot just "talk" to a child who is that age and have them do what you want if they are in a tantrum. Especially if they have never set boundries with the child before. It just doesn't work. My kids know that if they act like that, there will be consequences when we get to the car or at home. I do not spank but will give them a "swat" on the butt to show then that I am serious. I have only had to actually swat a couple of times in their lives, my tone of voice and the look on my face says it all!
If my kids ever acted like that, they would have been removed from the situation immediately. I would be totally embarassed that it was happening that I would want to get off the plane.
My daughter has never had a fit anywhere. Even when she was little, she always was perfect. My son on the other hand was (and still is) totally opposite of her. He was not raised any different than she was but he was just came out that way. He used to pitch a fit when he didn't get his way at the grocery, Target, etc. The only thing I could do was to just pick him up and leave the store, with all my stuff in a cart sitting in an aisle. I don't like doing it but it makes my son learn that he is not going to get his way by acting like that. He is much better now that he is 4 and we hardly ever have issues unless it is in the afternoon when he is getting tired (too young to give up naps but he thinks he is too old to need one).
I totallly feel for the people who got kicked off but you cannot just "talk" to a child who is that age and have them do what you want if they are in a tantrum. Especially if they have never set boundries with the child before. It just doesn't work. My kids know that if they act like that, there will be consequences when we get to the car or at home. I do not spank but will give them a "swat" on the butt to show then that I am serious. I have only had to actually swat a couple of times in their lives, my tone of voice and the look on my face says it all!
oxydolfan1
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Rather than coddling these irresponsible parents with free tickets and incentives, how about the airline, the airport, and/or regulatory authorities levying fines and/or charges for the disruption to the nation's travel system, at a time where more emphasis should be dedicated to security, aircraft maintenance, and the staff and passengers who actually know how to behave and interact with other people?
washerboy
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Stories like this really piss me off!!! Just because two people can get their pants off and reproduce it not a license for "special treatment".I've raised 4 children...3 steps and one biological...it would be a cold day in hell before I let a 3 year old dictate what he or she would or would not do....and sitting your bottom down in a seat so a airplane can take off is something that's not up for discussion...where do these parents get off thinking they've been wronged? I noticed in the above a few folks made the comment "when my kids were that age"...I really try not to say that...but I think it constantly..esp. in resturants and church. I never let my children run in a resturant..firstly because it was rude to bother other patons..but mainly because I did'nt want a pervert to pick them up and and run off. And these parents that think it's cute for their baby to coo, and cry through church just slays me..there's a time and place for everything!!!! Why do I have the feeling I'm preaching to the choir?...LOL!!!! enough of my soap box...I actually had to take a friend of mine...whom is childless..down a notch or two over the weekend discussing this air plane story.
What we have rampantly ocurring is children having children. These people don't have a clue about child-rearing. Any boomer can tell you what works when it comes to discipline, yet so many of them chose not to practice these same methods with their own kids and this has begun what appears to be an irreverisible trend across generations.
I have nothing but contempt for parents who CHOOSE not to control their kids. There is no sense of responsibility and because of this, as stated above, shool teachers end up spending more time trying to control their classes than teaching anything. From this crop of kids will come the future leaders of the country. Canada just keeps looking better and better, if I could just stand the cold.
I have nothing but contempt for parents who CHOOSE not to control their kids. There is no sense of responsibility and because of this, as stated above, shool teachers end up spending more time trying to control their classes than teaching anything. From this crop of kids will come the future leaders of the country. Canada just keeps looking better and better, if I could just stand the cold.
Ralph, it isn't any better here either. A lot more "me first" and I'm special attitudes than there used to be. Still in all I think the majority of kids are ok when it comes right down to it.
oxydolfan1
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"....it isn't any better here either...."
Oh, no, it can't be worse than New York. I just can't imagine it!!!
Oh, no, it can't be worse than New York. I just can't imagine it!!!
lightedcontrols
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Well.....
....my mother would have busted my ass, sat me down hard in the seat, and the whole matter would have ended right there. Mark
....my mother would have busted my ass, sat me down hard in the seat, and the whole matter would have ended right there. Mark
My folks weren't spankers, although mom used to threaten us with the dreaded Craftsman yardstick occassionaly ;-) Usually "the look" was enough to get us to settle down.
I do remember one time I was being a brat in church, and my dad took me to the back of the church to get me calmed down. That didn't work, and he gave me a swat on the thigh (I was wearing shorts) The swat made a huge sound that echoed through the church, and everyone turned around to look at us. I, of course, played it up, sobbing and carrying on. Bernhardt couldn't have done it better, LOL.
After that, when I misbehaved in church, I would get taken to the car.
I do remember one time I was being a brat in church, and my dad took me to the back of the church to get me calmed down. That didn't work, and he gave me a swat on the thigh (I was wearing shorts) The swat made a huge sound that echoed through the church, and everyone turned around to look at us. I, of course, played it up, sobbing and carrying on. Bernhardt couldn't have done it better, LOL.
After that, when I misbehaved in church, I would get taken to the car.
jeb
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disiplining children
I also thing the airline was more than generous. We would have never been aloud to behave like the three year old. My mother carried a wooden spoon in her purse, I don't ever remember her using it (she might have before memory kick in) but we had a very health respect for that spoon. If I had been that three year old, one look at that spoon and I would have been in that seat, buckled, and behaving correctly. I think having respect (and a little fear) of parents is much better in the long run than being you parent's 'friend'.To this day I have a very good relationship with my parents.
I also thing the airline was more than generous. We would have never been aloud to behave like the three year old. My mother carried a wooden spoon in her purse, I don't ever remember her using it (she might have before memory kick in) but we had a very health respect for that spoon. If I had been that three year old, one look at that spoon and I would have been in that seat, buckled, and behaving correctly. I think having respect (and a little fear) of parents is much better in the long run than being you parent's 'friend'.To this day I have a very good relationship with my parents.
I remember a letter in Ann Landers' column years ago about a horrible, misbehaving family in a restaurant. Diners complained to the manager. Shortly thereafter, the manager came to the offending family with take-out boxes. He explained that they had prepared fresh versions of their meals for them to take home, then asked them to leave and not come back until their children knew how to behave in a restaurant. As they left, the rest of the diners applauded. More than once, I have been in a restaurant where some people come in with a baby and are seated near me after I had been seated. They want to talk to each other and eat. The baby is ignored and protests. I have the wait person bring the manager over and I request to be moved away from the noise. I am not embarrassed. I am not the one making the noise. I would not tolerate it in my home and I am not going to tolerate it in a place where I have to pay to eat.
We also learned early on that there was to be no whining and crying at home or in public when we wanted something we could not have. We were told ahead of time why we were going shopping, what was being purchased and that we were not to ask for anything extra. My mother did not need to take us through a candy-free check out.
We behaved because we had no options. If you did not behave, you got it from your parents and I am not talking time outs either. Spankings hurt. We were afraid to misbehave because of what we knew would happen to us. Many of today's kids are not afraid of their parents or any authority figure and that is not good.
We also learned early on that there was to be no whining and crying at home or in public when we wanted something we could not have. We were told ahead of time why we were going shopping, what was being purchased and that we were not to ask for anything extra. My mother did not need to take us through a candy-free check out.
We behaved because we had no options. If you did not behave, you got it from your parents and I am not talking time outs either. Spankings hurt. We were afraid to misbehave because of what we knew would happen to us. Many of today's kids are not afraid of their parents or any authority figure and that is not good.
Jeb, I loved that your Mom carried a wooden spoon in her purse! I think my Mom's purse was packed full of Kleenex - she was always handing it out 
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