PayPal... Be glad you don't need a Provenance for old appliances.

[mattl]

Came across this recently online, not sure how often it happens, but scary regardless.

 

<blockquote>
 

As you know, I have had my share of issues with Paypal recently, and while I appreciate the effort they made to do the right thing in our case, I still have a lot of misgivings about them as a company.
This e-mail didn’t help.

<blockquote>
Dear Helen Killer,


I love your site and was thrilled to hear of your “win” against PayPal. I recently had a heartbreaking experience of my own with them.

I sold an old French violin to a buyer in Canada, and the buyer disputed the label.

This is not uncommon. In the violin market, labels often mean little and there is often disagreement over them. Some of the most expensive violins in the world have disputed labels, but they are works of art nonetheless.


Rather than have the violin returned to me, PayPal made the buyer DESTROY the violin in order to get his money back. They somehow deemed the violin as “counterfeit” even though there is no such thing in the violin world.

</blockquote>

<blockquote>
The buyer was proud of himself, so he sent me a photo of the destroyed violin.


I am now out a violin that made it through WWII as well as $2500. This is of course, upsetting. But my main goal in writing to you is to prevent PayPal from ordering the destruction of violins and other antiquities <em>that they know nothing about. It is beyond me why PayPal simply didn’t have the violin returned to me.

I spoke on the phone to numerous reps from PayPal who 100% defended their action and gave me the party line.

</em>
Erica

</blockquote>
I forwarded this e-mail to my contact at Paypal several days ago. They have not replied.

UPDATE: I neglected to mention in the original post that the violin was examined and authenticated by a top luthier prior to its sale.

UPDATE 2: Thanks to sharp-eyed reader Mr. Pete, who found this paragraph in Paypal’s Terms of Service:

UPDATE 3: Paypal has advised that they are now looking into the matter.

</blockquote>
 

http://www.regretsy.com/2012/01/03/from-the-mailbag-27/

 

[retropia]

PayPal isn't a bank and thus doesn't have regulations like a bank does. I keep a separate checking account just for PayPal transactions. Anytime I receive a sizable deposit, I transfer it out right away and otherwise keep a small balance in the account. That way in the event of a dispute like the one described, PayPal can only access whatever small amount I keep in the checking account.

 

[redcarpetdrew]

This is very disturbing!

The violin should have been sent to PayPal for evaluation first before destruction of such an item was permitted. I wonder if things like this are the reason I see sellers stating 'no PayPal' in their terms...

RCD

 

[firedome]

That separate account trick won't work...

they will come after you through a collection agency, and other nefarious actions. You can run but you can't hide.

 

[perc-o-prince]

I wonder if things like this are the reason I see sellers st

If these sellers are on eBay, they could have their auctions deleted and possibly face closure of their eBay account unless the only option they're offering is payment on pickup. eBay doesn't allow any form of payment other than PayPal or payment on pickup, and they've enforced it before.

Chuck

 

[polkanut]

Chuck,

I've made purchases from parties on Ebay that have preferred a money order rather than a PayPal payment.  I actually prefer this method of payment as well.

 

[mrb627]

Paypal

I have had a few Paypal issues recently. That is why I am not currently an upgraded member. My account was comprimised and some fraudulent transactions occured. Paypal addressed me as if I was at fault. The issue was eventually resolved, but it resulted in bye-bye Paypal because of it.

Malcolm

 

[arbilab]

The public has GOT to stop falling for these techno-wonders like telepurchasing without recourse. There telesellers you can trust like L.L. Bean and Zappos because they are conscious of their reputations, and ones you can't like ebay/paypal and Dell. Everyone just assumes a big name makes it safe but Dell and ebay don't give a flying *beep* about ethics OR about their customers because they know if they screw one there are 5 in line right behind him who 'just assume' they will be OK.

As little regard as I have for Federal regulation, at some point it's going to have to step in and define terms that ebay/paypal don't want to be bothered with like third-party inspection/validation and arbitration. Otherwise telepurchasing anything worth over about $20 will just become unviable because nobody trusts anybody. I sure the hell wouldn't ebay/paypal a 4-figure collectible (not that I have any).

 

[tolivac]

this sounds so pointless to have a buyer destroy a playable violin-it was playable when sold-so the intrument is usable.If the buyer was unhappy PayPal or whatever should have just had the violin sent back to the seller.This all just doesn't make sense or is logical.

 

[arbilab]

Exactly. Since when does a money transfer agent have the authority to order that value be destroyed as a term of underwriting the buyer, who for all they know is a total crackpot?

More and more people are boycotting ebay and paypal. But like I said, for every one that does there are 5 more in line behind him so ebay doesn't give a flying flarg.

 

[qualin]

Two pieces of advice...

First piece.. NEVER EVER EVER EVER give Paypal your banking account information. Just don't. Give them a Credit Card, you can always cancel a credit card.

Second piece. If you are dissatisfied with something and paypal won't do anything, you can call up Mastercard and revoke the payment. That really pisses Paypal off because now it's on their shoulders. If they care enough, they'll make time to do something about it.

I use paypal for the convenience of buying things online, but always use the buyers protection on my credit card in case I really do get screwed over.

 

[tolivac]

think some folks at PayPal should be FIRED over this incident and be made to reimburse the seller the value of the violin.and the reimbursment is taken from the PayPal employees that should be fired over this incident-since when do they have the authority to authorize destruction of someones property?

 

[jetcone]

Thats very interesting

what it needs is a Warren Buffet to go after the third party destruction of private property. They are behaving like they own everything and doing it across State Lines I might add!

Federal Commerce Commission should be apprised of this.

 

[alr2903]

Maybe PayPal is following the playbook, from some of our old time stores, with antiquated business plans. Being on the WWW does not in of itself make you a trendsetter sometimes quite the opposite.  alr

 

[mark_wpduet]

I tried signing up for Paypal with "JUST a credit card" and NO bank account. I kept getting ERRORS saying that in order to use paypal, I had to have a bank account that had been verified & then I could add my credit card as another form of payment. Any time I use Paypal to buy something online, it defaults to my checking & I have to change it to the credit card before check out.

 

[qualin]

Mark, they must have changed something.. I never had to give my bank account info, just my CC and that was it, when I signed up for Paypal.

If you can remove that info, I would do so.. If you can't, contact their customer service people.

If they deduct funds from your bank account, you have no recourse if you get screwed.

 

[arbilab]

I signed up for paypal with "just" my bank account. That wasn't enough for them. They would withhold payment for up to a week unless I ALSO gave them my CC number. I've used paypal a half dozen times. But right now I would prefer they didn't know who I was at all. Haven't they had security breaches, on top of their lecherous policies?

IMO ebay and paypal are leeches. I use them the least I possibly can.

 

[retropia]

When I first signed up with PayPal, if you wanted to accept funds (i.e. be a seller) you HAD to give them checking account info, and it HAD to be verified. In other words, it couldn't be a fake account.

That was many years ago; perhaps it has changed.

 

[lordkenmore]

I don't do PayPal, but have looked into it fairly recently. (In many ways, I hope to just continue avoiding them. But it's become a necessary evil for a lot of transactions. I see a lot of classifieds now demanding PayPal.) It appears that they now let one set up without any bank account link or credit card. One can load money using some prepaid card. Although I'm not sure how well any of this works in practice.

I'm not sure what I'd do if I ever start using PayPal. I think I'd ask my credit union what they suggest--small checking account that's PayPal only, or using a credit card. One thing I'm certain of: whatever I would do would be either through my credit union, or else another credit union or a bank that has good customer service. That way, if something goes wrong, I have someone at the local level who will help resolve the problem.