Persil Bio (Unilever/UK): Why Can't P&G Do This?!

[frigilux]

Yippie-skip! Three boxes of Persil Bio powdered detergent arrived today. I used it for a large load of bath towels (4 tablespoons), and on a load of heavily-stained kitchen whites (6 tablespoons + liquid chlorine bleach).

In both cases, the suds were gone by the second rinse, even in my super-soft water. And it seems to clean just as well as my daily driver, liquid Tide HE With Bleach Alternative.

My question: Why the hell can't P&G make a detergent like this? It has a nice scent, does an excellent job of cleaning, and it rinses out perfectly--even better than SA8.

UK members: I'm completely jealous that you have access to this great detergent without the eye-popping shipping costs to have it flown across the pond.

 

[whirlcool]

We don't have Persil because our detergent manufacturers think it's not what we want.

They think that the typical American consumer wants a sticky, high sudsing liquid that stinks to high heaven with floral or tropical fruit scents that stick to your clothing for a long time after it has been washed.

When P&G &others finally get in touch with what consumers really want, we'll have detergents more like Persil. This shouldn't be too hard, all we want is for our clothes to have the nice scent of natural clean!

Personally, I love Persil and I find FOCA from Mexico the next best thing.

 

[hoover1100]

If you think Persil is good

Try Ariel, I find it cleans slightly better, and the current forulation rinses out really well.

It's a P&G product too, I personally prefer their products (namely Ariel and Lenor) to Unilevers brands, I find they work better and are roughtly the same price.

P&G detergents in the U.S. seem completely different to the ones sold here, although I must admit I love the smell of Tide with Bleach powder, haven't used it to comment on its performance though.

 

[frigilux]

Hi Matt---I've had Ariel Bio powder and I love the citrus scent. And you're right, it cleans very well. But when I used UK Ariel and UK Persil side-by-side, the Persil was easily the cleaner-rinsing of the two. Of course, this little "test" was tried about three years ago, and maybe Ariel's formula has changed since then.

The problem is my super-soft water. Almost any detergent---even if labeled HE and/or low-sudsing--- doesn't rinse out well. I've just become accustomed to seeing suds in the final rinse water. It's so refreshing to see none at all with Persil.

I can get a product from Amway called SA8, which, at least in my water, is the cleanest rinsing US detergent I've tried. I plan to use SA8 for most loads, and save the Persil for of heavily-stained kitchen whites and perhaps loads of bath towels, where suds tend to be the most tenacious.

I can get the Henckels version of Persil in the US, but it isn't as clean-rinsing as the Unilever version. It's also very expensive.

The issue with UK Persil is the cost. I can handle the price of the detergent alone, which is about $20 in US funds for the 50-use box. Unfortunately, shipping adds an additional $26 dollars to the cost of a single box! I ordered three boxes, so it should last a good long time. I only need to use about 4 tablespoons for a load, so I'm hoping to get many more than 50 uses from each box.

 

[newwave1]

Frigilux-Ariel has reformulated from the time you did your experiment! It is now excellent at rinsing compared to how it used to be! I find it to be the best detergent you can buy. I am exceptionally picky with rinsing and can happily recommend it to you!

I am not a fan of Persil, though I liked how well older formulations rinsed out, My ma's current batch is quite sudsy! She had used Persil bio when I was small until Non-Bio was released and sadly she was sucked into the Non-bio marketing and I can not for the life of me get her to change though she knows I know best lol. I just get the "I've been washing clothes for thirty years" speech! doesn't mean she does it properly! ;-) lol!! It was always really difficult to get her to buy Ariel as my Dad's skin is very sensitive so he would always complain if we changed brands. Though it's down to heavy scents not enzymes...but thats another story.

Darren

 

[frigilux]

Matt & Darren---Which version of Ariel do you guys use; powdered or liquid? If you're getting good rinsing results, I should give it a try. My own preference is the powdered bio version of UK detergents. When I've used up my stash of Persil, (and recovered from the price-shock, LOL) I'll have to give Ariel a try, again.

And thanks for your input, guys; I really appreciate it!

 

[peterh770]

I tried both. UK Ariel performed very much like Mexican Ariel, but without the suds and the strong scent. I much preferred UK Persil. Such a fresh, clean scent that didn't linger around, and super performance. Got the green box for most loads, and a purple box for the darks. Great stuff!!!

 

[vintagesearch]

now that you mention it i passed through our local discount store and they had the small bags of powdered detergent they had Tide with the asian writing (love it), Ariel, foca, roma, rinso, and ace....im going to try some of these we tried foca i think its the one with the seal on the package and a light blue works amazing!

 

[hoover1100]

Ariel

Hi Frigilux, yeah if you did a rinse comparison 3 years ago ariel will have been much more difficult to rinse out than it is now, it went through a bit of a bad patch in that respect a few years ago, but the current Ariel "with Actilift" formula released earlier this year is usually clear by the first rinse for me (we have REALLY soft water where I live too!).

I use the powdered version, the liquids/gels/liquitabs don't contain oxi bleach, so I avoid those on white clothes, and the powders tend to work out cheaper than the tablets with the same cleaning performance.

Either way Persil still cleans and rinses excellently, certainly not far behind ariel in my books by any respect.

Matt

 

[frigilux]

Thanks for the info, Matt. I feel more secure having powdered detergents shipped from the UK. It's too easy for bottles to leak, etc. I had a shipping disaster having liquid detergent sent to me from within the US. I ordered a case (4 bottles) of Tide with Dawn Stainscrubbers and one of them leaked all over and made a huge mess of the shipping package. I'm still waiting for a refund from that source, come to think of it.

I'll have to give powdered Ariel a try. Tide detergent has recently been advertising the "Acti-Lift" formula. I wish P&G would make Tide as clean-rinsing as your Ariel! They obviously have the ability to do it.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Most powders rinse out better than most liquids. I have been told it has to do with the buffering agents in liquids. I have perfect rinsing in my Mieles using 1 coffee measure (2 TBS) of powder Tide HE with a slightly greater amount of STPP. In another discussion it was pointed out that early DASH had 40% STPP not only because it boosted the cleaning of the surfactant, but also because STPP does not produce suds.

I bought some SA-8 to try although I would not support that company on a regular basis and while it cleans well, it does not rinse out better than Tide, same for Persil MegaPerls for colors and both cost a lot more than Tide, especially with coupons and catching sales, althought I won't be buying it or anything else at Target.

 

[launderess]

Bottles Breaking During Shipping From EU/UK

Had several bottles of gel and liquid detergents sent from France. Nothing was broken, nothing was damaged. Choose these over powders because depending upon how and whom did the packing, cardboard boxes can and will burst open, or at least leak.

IMHO the gel detergents give one more detergent bang for the buck when shipping across the pond. Even with MieleUSA's highway robbery prices, Persil is still cheaply purchased here in the states than having it shipped. Of course much does depend upon the exchange rate between Euro and US dollar. Made my move during the height of the "Greek finanical crisis", when the dollar was very high against the Euro.

Tide HE powder can easy to rinse, if one is VERY careful about the dosage. Not as clean rinsing as EU/UK detergents, but by the fourth rinse in my Miele, the water is clear.

One thing to remember is most all laundry detergents from domestic makers are/were designed for top loading washing machines. This means products made for high dilution which comes from all that water used in top loading washing machines. It also includes the high foaming surfactants used in American detergents. Froth is totally un-necessary, but without it many in the USA still think the product is not "working".

EU/UK detergent makers by and large never had to deal with a majority of the laundry market dominated by top loading washers, thus have had ages to develop and refine their products.

 

[jerrod6]

The 4th rinse.

4th Rinse? Many machines nowadays rinse 2 times, or 3 not 4 or 5. No such thing as a 4th rinse.

 

[frigilux]

Hi Launderess---I've used the Henckels-made Persil available through Miele (and a couple of other online sources). While it's a very good detergent, it sports a different formulation than its Unilever-produced (UK) namesake. I've found the Unilever version rinses much better in softened water.

As far as shipping goes, it's easier to clean up and salvage powdered detergent should a box burst open in transit. If there's an accident involving liquid detergent, it's a loss, as well as a gooey, slimy mess.

You're so right about US P&G: they love to make their detergents frothy/sudsy, because they think that's what launderers want. I question whether most people give their laundry a second thought once the start button has been pushed. If manufacturers marketed the advantage of a very-low sudsing, clean-rinsing detergent, they'd find a large market for their product.

And this is all a fairly moot point for the bulk of launderers, who wash in medium-to-hard water. Even Tide rinses out well under those water conditions. I once realized my softener had malfunctioned when I noticed a load with a full dose of liquid Tide HE produced no suds in the second rinse. The water had gone hard, and the detergent behaved quite differently than it does under very soft conditions.

 

[launderess]

Please Do Not Correct Me

My Miele washer has five (5) deep rinses.

Tis not a modern machine made "nowadays", which is one reaons one prefer it to the dreadful offerings one sees about currently.

 

[frigilux]

This is precisely why I'm a little obsessed with detergents and clean-rinsing at the moment. My new front-loader (when it arrives) will have only 2 rinses, and all my front-loaders have always had three rinses + a 4th extra rinse option.

 

[launderess]

And Another Thing

Those rinses use about 10-11 gallons of water as well.

 

[spiralator60]

Point of Clarification

Jerrod,

While it is true that many washers currently on the market only provide two or three rinses, this has not always been the case for machines in the past. Many members here own and use such machines.

It was quite common for older machines to have multiple rinses in a given cycle. For many years, Whirlpool touted its washers as having seven rinses, one deep rinse accompanied by six spray rinses. One such ad from the 1950s often appears in the Picture of the Day. Other brands in the past that were known for offering more than four rinses in a programmed cycle include Miele and Asko.

In a more recent example, my Maytag Neptune 6500 (purchased in 2006) has a setting to provide for four rinses, an extra rinse in addition to the default three.

There are many washing machines currently on the market with a variety of different operating settings and options, which allow for various additions or deletions to individual programmed cycles.

 

[tomturbomatic]

"Dumb-estic" detergents

American detergent manufacturers tried in the 80s to give us concentrated, LOW SUDSING powders such as FAB, WISK, TIDE and others that were great to use in front loaders. However the stupid factor overruled this move because dumb people complained that if it was not sudsing, they felt that it could not be cleaning and the products were discontinued. They are probably the same stupid idiots that now suds their FL machines to the top of the glass and have odor problems.