Persil Bio (Unilever/UK): Why Can't P&G Do This?!

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frigilux

frigilux

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Yippie-skip! Three boxes of Persil Bio powdered detergent arrived today. I used it for a large load of bath towels (4 tablespoons), and on a load of heavily-stained kitchen whites (6 tablespoons + liquid chlorine bleach).

In both cases, the suds were gone by the second rinse, even in my super-soft water. And it seems to clean just as well as my daily driver, liquid Tide HE With Bleach Alternative.

My question: Why the hell can't P&G make a detergent like this? It has a nice scent, does an excellent job of cleaning, and it rinses out perfectly--even better than SA8.

UK members: I'm completely jealous that you have access to this great detergent without the eye-popping shipping costs to have it flown across the pond.

frigilux++8-6-2010-23-12-58.jpg.png
 
We don't have Persil because our detergent manufacturers think it's not what we want.

They think that the typical American consumer wants a sticky, high sudsing liquid that stinks to high heaven with floral or tropical fruit scents that stick to your clothing for a long time after it has been washed.

When P&G &others finally get in touch with what consumers really want, we'll have detergents more like Persil. This shouldn't be too hard, all we want is for our clothes to have the nice scent of natural clean!

Personally, I love Persil and I find FOCA from Mexico the next best thing.
 
If you think Persil is good

Try Ariel, I find it cleans slightly better, and the current forulation rinses out really well.

It's a P&G product too, I personally prefer their products (namely Ariel and Lenor) to Unilevers brands, I find they work better and are roughtly the same price.

P&G detergents in the U.S. seem completely different to the ones sold here, although I must admit I love the smell of Tide with Bleach powder, haven't used it to comment on its performance though.
 
Hi Matt---I've had Ariel Bio powder and I love the citrus scent. And you're right, it cleans very well. But when I used UK Ariel and UK Persil side-by-side, the Persil was easily the cleaner-rinsing of the two. Of course, this little "test" was tried about three years ago, and maybe Ariel's formula has changed since then.

The problem is my super-soft water. Almost any detergent---even if labeled HE and/or low-sudsing--- doesn't rinse out well. I've just become accustomed to seeing suds in the final rinse water. It's so refreshing to see none at all with Persil.

I can get a product from Amway called SA8, which, at least in my water, is the cleanest rinsing US detergent I've tried. I plan to use SA8 for most loads, and save the Persil for of heavily-stained kitchen whites and perhaps loads of bath towels, where suds tend to be the most tenacious.

I can get the Henckels version of Persil in the US, but it isn't as clean-rinsing as the Unilever version. It's also very expensive.

The issue with UK Persil is the cost. I can handle the price of the detergent alone, which is about $20 in US funds for the 50-use box. Unfortunately, shipping adds an additional $26 dollars to the cost of a single box! I ordered three boxes, so it should last a good long time. I only need to use about 4 tablespoons for a load, so I'm hoping to get many more than 50 uses from each box.
 
Frigilux-Ariel has reformulated from the time you did your experiment! It is now excellent at rinsing compared to how it used to be! I find it to be the best detergent you can buy. I am exceptionally picky with rinsing and can happily recommend it to you!

I am not a fan of Persil, though I liked how well older formulations rinsed out, My ma's current batch is quite sudsy! She had used Persil bio when I was small until Non-Bio was released and sadly she was sucked into the Non-bio marketing and I can not for the life of me get her to change though she knows I know best lol. I just get the "I've been washing clothes for thirty years" speech! doesn't mean she does it properly! ;-) lol!! It was always really difficult to get her to buy Ariel as my Dad's skin is very sensitive so he would always complain if we changed brands. Though it's down to heavy scents not enzymes...but thats another story.

Darren
 
Matt & Darren---Which version of Ariel do you guys use; powdered or liquid? If you're getting good rinsing results, I should give it a try. My own preference is the powdered bio version of UK detergents. When I've used up my stash of Persil, (and recovered from the price-shock, LOL) I'll have to give Ariel a try, again.

And thanks for your input, guys; I really appreciate it!
 
I tried both. UK Ariel performed very much like Mexican Ariel, but without the suds and the strong scent. I much preferred UK Persil. Such a fresh, clean scent that didn't linger around, and super performance. Got the green box for most loads, and a purple box for the darks. Great stuff!!!
 
now that you mention it i passed through our local discount store and they had the small bags of powdered detergent they had Tide with the asian writing (love it), Ariel, foca, roma, rinso, and ace....im going to try some of these we tried foca i think its the one with the seal on the package and a light blue works amazing!
 
Ariel

Hi Frigilux, yeah if you did a rinse comparison 3 years ago ariel will have been much more difficult to rinse out than it is now, it went through a bit of a bad patch in that respect a few years ago, but the current Ariel "with Actilift" formula released earlier this year is usually clear by the first rinse for me (we have REALLY soft water where I live too!).

I use the powdered version, the liquids/gels/liquitabs don't contain oxi bleach, so I avoid those on white clothes, and the powders tend to work out cheaper than the tablets with the same cleaning performance.

Either way Persil still cleans and rinses excellently, certainly not far behind ariel in my books by any respect. :)

Matt
 
Thanks for the info, Matt. I feel more secure having powdered detergents shipped from the UK. It's too easy for bottles to leak, etc. I had a shipping disaster having liquid detergent sent to me from within the US. I ordered a case (4 bottles) of Tide with Dawn Stainscrubbers and one of them leaked all over and made a huge mess of the shipping package. I'm still waiting for a refund from that source, come to think of it.

I'll have to give powdered Ariel a try. Tide detergent has recently been advertising the "Acti-Lift" formula. I wish P&G would make Tide as clean-rinsing as your Ariel! They obviously have the ability to do it.
 
Most powders rinse out better than most liquids. I have been told it has to do with the buffering agents in liquids. I have perfect rinsing in my Mieles using 1 coffee measure (2 TBS) of powder Tide HE with a slightly greater amount of STPP. In another discussion it was pointed out that early DASH had 40% STPP not only because it boosted the cleaning of the surfactant, but also because STPP does not produce suds.

I bought some SA-8 to try although I would not support that company on a regular basis and while it cleans well, it does not rinse out better than Tide, same for Persil MegaPerls for colors and both cost a lot more than Tide, especially with coupons and catching sales, althought I won't be buying it or anything else at Target.
 
Bottles Breaking During Shipping From EU/UK

Had several bottles of gel and liquid detergents sent from France. Nothing was broken, nothing was damaged. Choose these over powders because depending upon how and whom did the packing, cardboard boxes can and will burst open, or at least leak.

IMHO the gel detergents give one more detergent bang for the buck when shipping across the pond. Even with MieleUSA's highway robbery prices, Persil is still cheaply purchased here in the states than having it shipped. Of course much does depend upon the exchange rate between Euro and US dollar. Made my move during the height of the "Greek finanical crisis", when the dollar was very high against the Euro.

Tide HE powder can easy to rinse, if one is VERY careful about the dosage. Not as clean rinsing as EU/UK detergents, but by the fourth rinse in my Miele, the water is clear.

One thing to remember is most all laundry detergents from domestic makers are/were designed for top loading washing machines. This means products made for high dilution which comes from all that water used in top loading washing machines. It also includes the high foaming surfactants used in American detergents. Froth is totally un-necessary, but without it many in the USA still think the product is not "working".

EU/UK detergent makers by and large never had to deal with a majority of the laundry market dominated by top loading washers, thus have had ages to develop and refine their products.
 
Hi Launderess---I've used the Henckels-made Persil available through Miele (and a couple of other online sources). While it's a very good detergent, it sports a different formulation than its Unilever-produced (UK) namesake. I've found the Unilever version rinses much better in softened water.

As far as shipping goes, it's easier to clean up and salvage powdered detergent should a box burst open in transit. If there's an accident involving liquid detergent, it's a loss, as well as a gooey, slimy mess.

You're so right about US P&G: they love to make their detergents frothy/sudsy, because they think that's what launderers want. I question whether most people give their laundry a second thought once the start button has been pushed. If manufacturers marketed the advantage of a very-low sudsing, clean-rinsing detergent, they'd find a large market for their product.

And this is all a fairly moot point for the bulk of launderers, who wash in medium-to-hard water. Even Tide rinses out well under those water conditions. I once realized my softener had malfunctioned when I noticed a load with a full dose of liquid Tide HE produced no suds in the second rinse. The water had gone hard, and the detergent behaved quite differently than it does under very soft conditions.
 
This is precisely why I'm a little obsessed with detergents and clean-rinsing at the moment. My new front-loader (when it arrives) will have only 2 rinses, and all my front-loaders have always had three rinses + a 4th extra rinse option.
 
Point of Clarification

Jerrod,

While it is true that many washers currently on the market only provide two or three rinses, this has not always been the case for machines in the past. Many members here own and use such machines.

It was quite common for older machines to have multiple rinses in a given cycle. For many years, Whirlpool touted its washers as having seven rinses, one deep rinse accompanied by six spray rinses. One such ad from the 1950s often appears in the Picture of the Day. Other brands in the past that were known for offering more than four rinses in a programmed cycle include Miele and Asko.

In a more recent example, my Maytag Neptune 6500 (purchased in 2006) has a setting to provide for four rinses, an extra rinse in addition to the default three.

There are many washing machines currently on the market with a variety of different operating settings and options, which allow for various additions or deletions to individual programmed cycles.
 
"Dumb-estic" detergents

American detergent manufacturers tried in the 80s to give us concentrated, LOW SUDSING powders such as FAB, WISK, TIDE and others that were great to use in front loaders. However the stupid factor overruled this move because dumb people complained that if it was not sudsing, they felt that it could not be cleaning and the products were discontinued. They are probably the same stupid idiots that now suds their FL machines to the top of the glass and have odor problems.
 
Actually

First version of Tide detergent did not make much suds, however in an era when soap ruled the roost in terms of laundry day, housewives wouldn't touch the stuff because they swore it didn't clean. P&G regigged the formula to make Tide high sudsing, and sales took off. The rest as they say is history.

Dash and other controlled sudsing detergents always occupied a small niche market. Mainly because front loaders themselves were a large part of the American laundry market,and many, many persons still equated froth with cleaning action.

If the product didn't create suds, people thought it was like pure soaps, and added more. When that didn't work they often would still add yet more. This despite copy on boxes stating the product would not create mass of suds because of it's "controlled" froth.
 
Frigilux-I use Ariel in both Powder & Gel form.

I live in a hard water area. My machine is a 2009 LG F1402FDS6 9 Kilograms = 0.317832 Cubic feet (I don't know if that is right! I used a converter!) which uses 59 Litres = 15.586151 Gallons (US) of water. It does 3 low/Medium Rinses using a Recirculatory jet which really helps rinse well with minimal water. Usually the water is clear on the 2nd rinse with both formats of Detergent! Nothing beats it in my opinion.

Darren
 
I FAR prefer Persil to Ariel

I occasionally switch between Persil and Ariel and I have to say that I find Unilever Persil a far nicer detergent mostly because of the fragrance.

Persil seems to remove stains just as effectively as Ariel. I have never had any problems with it and anything we wash with it comes out extremely clean. From things that just need a light freshening up, to food stains, to really dirty mop-heads and clothes, it just shifts everything without any fuss.

I find Ariel's cleans well too but the scent is very overpowering. It's a sort of pine-citrus-coconut scent which lingers for weeks on clothes in the wardrobe. I can also smell the box of powder from 2 rooms away!

Persil's got a subtle scent that I just find far more pleasant. It doesn't jump out at you as 'detergent odour' and it doesn't clash with anything else i.e. colognes etc.

I'm increasingly not a fan of Comfort, unilever's softener range, I find their products leave my clothes very 'gloopy' and they seem to have reforumulated Comfort Pure's scent too.

So, I use P&G's Fairy Softener. This is basically the Lenor equivalent of Comfort Pure.

Oddly enough, it actually complements Persil's fragrance *much* better than Unilever's Comfort.

The clothes come out clean, soft and fluffy ...
 
Launderess I found your description of why US powders foam really interesting and never thought about it before.

And you are right - "EU/UK detergent makers by and large never had to deal with a majority of the laundry market dominated by top loading washers, thus have had ages to develop and refine their products".

My mum has said on several occasions throughout the years, that she will not use X brand because it foams up too much. Its just not something we condiser, well I would never think that no foam = bad cleaning power.

We do still have "Twin Tub" / "Hand Wash" powder here which does foam up a lot and the box warns you not to use it in an automatic machine.

Finally here in UK my favourite powder is now from Costco, its the Kirkland massive drum of washing powder, which is actually for top loaders, it has a special sticker put onto the tub for the EU market warning that you should only use the bottom line on the scoop since its made for American machines.

Would you know who makes this powder for Costco - I think its cleans really well and is very cheap.
 
The H-axis drum-type machine has been absolutely dominant in Europe since the late 1960s. The remaining European top-loaders are H-Axis with a hatch in the drum.

In general machines with central agitators disappeared in the 1960s, with a few niche exceptions e.g. Hotpoint had one model and there are still some whirlpools available in the UK and Ireland although they're exceptionally niche products.

Even the old Hoovermatic twin tubs work best with a low-foaming detergent as they can whip up a heck of a froth if the detergent's high-suds.

So, the detergent market has always been focused on low-foaming products that work well in 99% of machines.

Persil (and Surf) powder has always been very low foaming for as long as I can remember. It varies a little with re-formulations, but in general it will produce very little or almost no suds.

On the other hand, Persil LiquiGel was possibly the most high-foaming detergent I've ever encountered in Europe. It's now almost impossible to find.

Persil S&M liquids are pretty low foaming in comparison.
 
Incidentally, Unilever Persil is sold as : Skip in France and Spain and as Omo in other markets in Europe.

Outside the EU, the formulation is likely to be quite different e.g. in Australia Omo is also available as a US-style top-loader detergent and Persil is in NZ!
 
Ariel Biological

MRX

I agree with Biological Ariel Powder, the scent is very overpowering. I think the Ariel Colour Powder is easier on the nose and has that grassy scent which Ariel had Until Late 2005 when they changed the logo and packaging, I have used Ariel Colour on whites and colours and find it cleans very well, but due to it having No bleach in it, the whites are white but not as white as having oxygen bleach in it.

Apparently you can still get the (Old) Version of Ariel Biological with the Ariel Colour scent, you can get it in 90 wash boxes and its under the professional formulation.

I am using LIDL Formil Biological Powder on White clothes and Find it to be sufficient, and cleans very well, and has a very subtle scent

Kyle
 
I would've agreed with the comments about Ariels fragrence about 3years ago. But not now. Now it smells fresh and not all over powering. Perhaps thats because i'm particular about rinsing.

My mum has used Persil non bio since it began. It used to be virtually foamless. However the last few months it has been Suds crazy! We live in a Hard Water Area in Lincoln and granted her AEG has a recirculatory jet but so does my LG and it is more powerful than my mum's AEG jet. I'm willing to sacrifice a load of my washing in Persil non bio to see if I have the same experience. She's very particular with dosing too.

Kyle-Gotta love Formil! Best value detergent avaliable at 8p a wash! It Cleans and rinses out really well!

Darren
 
Formil

Oh Yes Darren I agree it is a great detergent, Cleans and Rinses well, All we need now is to reintroduce Mega Concentrated Powder Detergents

Bring back Persil Micro, and Ariel Ultra/Futur, and I'll be laughing :D
 

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