Persil questions

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luxflairguy

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I was looking to buy more Persil Megapearls for my Miele 1930 washer and one seller said that Megapearls work best up to 145 degrees, while Persil Universal Powder works up to 205 degrees.
I do at least one load a week at 170 which is as high as my machine goes.
Should I be switching back to powder? And how much should I be using?
Any answers? Laundress????
 
Persil "Universal" Has An Oxygen Bleaching System

So yes, it will give better results with hot to boil wash temperatures. If you are comparing normal Persil powder (with bleach) to liquids or megapearls without then no, you don't need high temperatures since few if anyone boil washes colours. That plus without an oxygen bleaching system to activate there is little use in using wash temperatures at extreme ranges.

This being said my packages of Persil MG (universal) give temps up to 95C.
 
speaking of powders

From what I can tell, there is no actual difference between (universal) megaperls and regular (universal) powders or tabs, all do have TAED and percarbonate,which enable the bleaching system even in warm water, like pretty much every modern detergent does, megaperls is just the concentrated version in pearls of the powder and works in the same temperature ranges from 20 to 95...so do not really know where the salesperson got that info, probably is the same reason why the Miele keep selling Persil in the US like if it is that particular and sophisticated magic stuff that isn't..they're told to say so and tell stories to their buyers...
P.s
And of course like every regular detergent , they do their best in hotter washes...actually hotter washes gets the best of detergents.
 
actually hotter washes gets the best of detergents.

Yes, and no.

Top shelf modern laundry detergents work just as well at temps of 100F (warm) to 120F (used to be considered very warm now hot) as 140F or above (hot to boiling).

The increase in temperature above say 120F does intensify the bleaching action of hydrogen peroxide based systems, but this can come at the expense of enzyme action. Hotter water temps *may* help with dissolving powdered detergents, but there again better products come in formulas that are better than previous incarnations on that score. Of course if you are using cheap powders that are mostly washing soda, Zeolites, and fillers then yes you are probably going to have problems in warm to cooler wash temperatures.

Except for the odd badly stained wash load one rarely goes above 120F in either the Miele or AEG and will put my results up against anyone else's any day of the week.

What does matter is that one is using the proper detergent in amounts necessary to do the job, not overloading the machine and making sure things are rinsed well.

Energy costs are increasing especially for electricity which is turning many even die hard "boil wash" fans off using such cycles all the time.

While variations exist in markets the overall trend is moving towards liquids and now "pod" detergents. Neither require the very hot to boiling water temperatures of old to get laundry clean.
 
What I was saying is that if you have a bad stained load...you might be well advised to wash at an higer temperature, of course my average to moderate soiled laundry gets perfectly clean even in warm, say 110- 120F and will put my results against any other as well, but as you also say for really badly stained loads you will likely have to increase the temperature, so hotter wash gives the best of your detergent...like it was for soaps back then...
As you use a temperature over 140 F you will get decreased enzymes, but the more temperature is high, the more you'll have an increased bleaching action along with degreasing/cleaning action of surfactans.
With modern detergents this is less a problem:
With modern detergents boil wash is thought being not as necessary, at least not like it was once, this because nowadays you can get a good bleaching action working well at warmer temperatures than once was, and simultaneously with enzymes, without one condition affecting the other, thing that in the past was not as possible, where to get a good bleaching you had to reach about 140 F, and or higher.

But....I challenge everyone in getting same results of a 130-140F wash, with a 86F wash...
That was what I was trying to say...as simple as it gets, and that's what I meant with my sentence...
 
Several months ago had a huge load of badly stained table linens from a dinner party. Not wanting to subject my fine linen to a prolonged wash cycle and "hot" water did a presoak.

Mixed a tiny amount of Tide Coldwater *Free* liquid in a bucket with cold water and put the linens in before going to bed. Next morning checked on the lot and everything was *CLEAN*. Stains completely gone and so forth, all that was required in the Miele was a series of rinses then spin dry. Indeed have used the same Tide Coldwater with a washing machine and gotten the same results again using cold (85F) water.
 
Unless you have a food fight/battle at the party, linens and table clothes coming from a regular dinner party hardly enters in my badly stained/higly soiled category....especially if washed the day after or as soon as you take off the table, I usually wait until I have a full load, they never goes alone..normal spots from spilled food and wine or coffee, and lips food from napkins usually does in a normal 40 degrees celsius cycle just fine with a good detergent, or low end one with help of additives, granted that much depends on how old stains are and what type they're...if you are having a bourgignon and you get so many oil spots and drops on the table, I think you can even forget a cold wash and you might better go toward 40+ degrees celsius, same is for a fat peperonata with sausages in it, grease will not get removed so well in cold as it will in warmer temps, especially red dyed (fats gets color from peppers and tomatoes) animal lard from pork like in case of peperonata ( I found that pork lard and shortenings, and margarines often needs warmer/hotter temps than simple oils like olive or seeds does ) cold wash indeed might do well for a minestrone soup stain, or stock stain or starchy light gravies..or lighter/easier stains generally....especially if fresh and washed immediately, in booth the cases, the "age" of the stains plays an important factor.

Motor oil soiled suits, kitchen dirts from cloths including cleaning spillngs , big pools of pasta sauce oil, fats and greases of any type from grillng to frying from kitchen cloths (also litterally soaked in oil/ frying drypping) and towels , kitchen rags/knots/cloths (I use these three words to mean the sams thing) soaked with parsley juice from mincing, ( yes, odd, but I have a technique to make garnishment dried parsley, you need to squeeze it's juice into a rag to avoid it to rot and dulling in air drying process, this way it stays brillant green), kitchen jackets and aprons (many chefs use aprons to clean dry their hands while cooking to avoid running to the sink every time you touch something), cleaning cloths for outside (smog build up on windows, tables and so forth) etc .....are what I'd define badly stained, then it can even reach extreme cases like being litterally soaked in dirt, also depending on dirts types, like a whole bucket of pasta sauce falling against you from the refrigerator (yes that happened) or a compressor's motor oil tank cork exploding and spraying motor oil everywhere at you (happened last week where I work, I have pics! LOL), etc....and really doubt they might get clean by using coldwater, not even lukewarm water, let alone just by soaking them without mechanical action.
In my household we don't use kitchen paper for anything, you don't find it, I don't mind washing as I enjoy it, and it costs less using cloths, , we do everything with cloths, cleaning, draining fried stuff, drying spilled stuff etc,..washed an reused, the only paper we use is in the bathrom for obvious reasons, toilet tissue...for all the rest, clothes.
Never tried one of those coldwater detergents, but I tried a few Japanese ones (Attack and Japan Ariel) that are supposed being the same thing as those coldwater products, since Japanese are "cold wash" people...
They were better than your average universal detergent, but no more good than TOL regular offerings, of course not able to perform as well in coldwater as anyone does in hot...

[this post was last edited: 6/3/2014-06:18]
 
Persil Universal Powder and Universal Megaperls as well are recommended by the manufacturer for any temperature up to 205°F.

The Persil Colour Powder, Megaperls, Liquid and so on however are only recommended for temperatures up to 140°F because dark colours should not be washed any hotter to avoid excessive fading.
But believe me if you wish to exceed 140°F for any reason of your choice with the colour care detergents it is perfectly safe to do so as long as the garment can take it. Your machine is not going to oversuds and there won`t be any strange chemical reaction.

As to dosing, when using Megaperls you`ll need approximately half the amount compared to Powder measured by volume.

On a side note I don`t get the argument about enzymes being destroyed at temperatures above 140°F. I mean even if a FL is connected to hot and cold water supply (with those tiny 1000 W heaters) there is still plenty of time for the enzymes to do their job BEFORE they might get killed off. Any other component of a detergent like surfactants still work best in hottest water.
The only thinkable excepion would be the conditions as found in a Toploader, because apart from possible problems with denatured enzymes certain stains could be set from a very hot start. [this post was last edited: 6/3/2014-14:14]
 
The speech about enzymes being denaturated in temps over 140 has been long discussed here, and now  I'll be speaking from a top loader and TT  user point of  view as this is what i am satisfied with and that I think being best...
What I wrote was meant to clarify my statement, that Launderess gave me the possibility to punctualize by letting me realize that the concept may have been controversial, put in the way I put it...
Said that, and assumed you might have enzymes that may stand more  higher temps  than others,  a very hot fill, say 70-80 celsius or anyway over the 60 degrees celsius coming from r line ( which is something you may get, but that is not very common) this both if you have a top loader or an hot fill front loader that fills and allow such hot water fill, will denaturate them in a good part if not even totally anyway...
You may get some heat dispersion in a front loader because of  the less amount they use, but enzymes  by being hit with  water hotter than 60 degrees celsius in  filing phase and initial wash segment  would  be denaturated  the same, remember that in the US european self heating machines still comes with hot fill also, and so does in certain areas of the world..but again..that's a possible case not the rule... And also granted that not everyone do like to set up their heaters with such temperage and prefer stay lower, for many reasons....
Anyway, for what concerns toploaders, this is anyway not an issue with "dumb-but intelligent" modern units with fill temperature limitations...
Infact while the good older units didn't really care of how hot was water entering as it was not their job or business to worry about that, you can see that modern units are quite sensible and likes to mix it and don't allow you to get a decent "hot" wash, worth be called so...this because they're "intelligent".., Ah!
Anyway...
Of course, this is also the case of using a twin tub that heats,  such as Servis, for multiple loads one following the other with water well over the 140F point or even boiling, I can anyway get very good results even with enzymes being denaturated for the most part in subsequent washes and surely totally kaput while boilwashing (a load goes out, a new one enters) so always starting from hot or boiling water... ( but as for toploaders, it is something I don't actually need to and I do not while using regular detergents,  but that I occasionally do using soaps and plain surfactant detergents such as multi purpose ones  like mexican  Arcoiris..but many times   it's more for fun than need).
Anyway, in the top loaders automatics, what I get from the hot water line is 150-160 F  reaching even more in low demand hours and after a  good pipe priming..., they will never receive water in them and so wash over the 180 F at the very max I may get , this with deep priming of pipes and machine.
But do not need it, most of the normal to moderate soiled washing does in 40 or 50 degrees celsius, with hot wash at  60 degrees celsius  or more (140F)  used just for  really bad  stained loads and whites, I would not actually need water any hotter han that...it does all perfectly, and looks like I can still benefit of enzymes as I never had a problem with enzymatic stains nor others....

Hope I clarified, and I wanted to tell you I totally share your thoughts about the persil and what you said about, this is what I know as well![this post was last edited: 6/3/2014-14:35]
 
I usually wash whites at 120F and even some light colors with Megaperls for whites.  My machine goes as high as 190F which I use sometimes if I want to help control bacteria on selected items.  But even at this temp the machine will take in some cold water and then hold the temp down into the lower range for a long time before eventually leaving the heater on continusoly to raise the water temp, so I think that if you machine can reach higher temps and has been designed to hold the temp lower at the beginning the enzymes will still be effective and then when the higher temps are reached any additional action from the oxygen bleach can take effect.

 

As presviously stated when using Megaperls you need to use less because it is more concentrated than the regular powder.

 

 
 
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