Phosphates In Soap??

[stan]

Had a couple of bars of Octagon soap around the house, and began to wonder if this was really a soap, or a detergent bar? The online MSDS didn't tell me much, but through other sources, that it contained Sodium Dodecylbenze Sufonate, (synthetic detergent) and Pentasodium Triphosphate !! (STPP) (who knew)

Don't know if this is a alternative to those of you who order STPP or not? but thought it might possibly be used to spike regular Phosphate Free detergent? Also since it dose not suds up too much, maybe a tsp in the dishwasher will solve the problems for those who are having trouble with the new Phosphate Free versions of automatic dishwashing detergents, instead of rinse aids and so forth?? ( I don't have a dishwasher otherwise I'd have tried it already) LOL

Still am not sure if this is a full detergent bar, or a combo soap/detergent bar?

Maybee Laundress will get to the bottom of this, and set this straight!

 

[launderess]

Octagon, Kirkman's Borax, Fels Naptha

Along with other "brown" heavy duty type were and or are known as "built" because they contained various agents besides the normal fats and alkalies normally found in soap.

Alkaline substances such as washing soda,borax and phosphates all soften water something quite critical when using soap as the primary detergent for laundry, but they also increased the cleaning power as well. Such soaps were used for general laundry needs such as family clothing, overalls, etc. Finer items such as one's danties or linens would require a *white* laundry soap such as Lux, Kirkman's flakes, and so forth.

Many of my vintage laundry books give recipes for making "built" laundry soap (if one was making soap from scratch), and or the usual porportions for the ready made variety. They also give instructions for making stock soap solutions to use on laundry day. These are similar to the "homemade laundry detergent" recipes one sees all over the Internet; that is various ratios of borax,and or washing soda, and so soap.

Regarding using the above Octagon soap to replace adding STPP in the wash; yes you could do that, but it would mean using enough soap to always maintain rich suds in the wash. Depending upon one's pocketbook it may be cheaper to simply add water softener (such as STPP) and use less soap.

 

[stan]

Thanks Laundress for

the reply

I just found it interesting, that a product labeled as a "All Purpose Soap" would contain STPP, and a synthetic detergent? I'm familiar with Fels, and realize that it is, as many other bar forms, a "syndet" (soap/detergent combo) still containing reacted fats, along with synthetic detergent builders. But the Octagon All Purpose is the only one that contains the STPP, where as Fels dose not, at least that I'm aware of ?
I haven't as yet found out if the Octagon is an syndet, or an all detergent bar. No list of ingredients on the label?

I've Googled around a bit and found where it is not liked by some with relation to the "clean water act" and so forth, now my curiosity is up, as to how much STPP or ( Pentasodium Triphosphate ) it contains??
If it dose contain a substantial amount... should I buy more? LOL

 

[launderess]

Shouldn't Get To Carried Away Regarding The STPP

Amount found in Octagon, again you'd probably have to use quite allot of the soap in order to gain any benefit found in just 1/4 cup or so of pure phosphate. Again that would depend upon the percentage found in the soap.

The original Octagon was a rather harsh lye based soap, so not sure when the change over occured.

Not too surprsing though, if one is going to use soap for cleaning it does make sense as noted above to "build" into it properties to deal with hard water. Sodium doc*** is along the same lines of adding naptha in that neither are bothered by hard water minerals and increase cleaning power.

 

[stan]

Thanks Laundress

I wont get carried away then! LOL

Thanks Stan

 

[launderess]

Octagon Soap Ingredients By Weight

+Sulphonic Acid, Water, Clay, Pentasodium Tripolyphosphate, Dark Soap, Citric Acid, EDTA, Salt, Fragrance, Color

 

[stan]

So You did

get to the bottom of this!

Sulphonic acid is to my understanding a very slow to degrade chemical?
Interesting that the STPP is forth on the list (really third since most of the water has evaporated)

Have you ever run cross this ingredient (STPP) in a bar soap product before? and I'd love to know what they mean by "dark soap"

I have a friend who's having trouble with the new dishwasher detergents, I still wonder if Octagon ( 1 tsp ) would work?? Just might have to do a test!
What do you think?

 

[arbilab]

I can get rid of the grit residue in the DW with 1/2 C of vinegar in the first rinse. No risk of oversudsing, no risk handling, minimal expense, readily available. Our water is 1 PPT (1000 PPM) TDS, I don't know what that is in grains. The DW detergent is Finish/Electrasol gel.

 

[launderess]

Sulphonic Acid ='s Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate

That is it's a detergent.

Dark soap probably means the dark brown *heavy duty* soap one spoke of upthread

 

[launderess]

Sulphonic Acid - detergent/cleanser

Water

Clay - adds weight but other than that does absolutely nothing in terms of cleansing power.

Pentasodium Tripolyphosphate - sequesters hard water minerals,builder

Dark Soap - detergent/cleanser, softens water,

Citric Acid - pH buffer

EDTA - water softener and preservative

Salt

Fragrance - scent

Color -

 

[2011hoovermatic]

Where can I get some octogon soap from, I mean like can I get it from a hardware store or is it harder now to find but availble?

 

[maytagbear]

This place has it.....

a little pricy, but they have great service.

soapsgonebuy.com

Link included to homepage.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

http://soapsgonebuy.com

 

[launderess]

Octagon Soap

Can be found at some local supermarkets, but as one has tons of vintage Fels Naptha, Kirkman's Borax, a case of P&G white soap and the same of Lux flakes really have no interest in bothering to look recently.