please call your congress critters and oppose this.

[hunter]

The democrats want a national ID card. Please call your congress critters and oppose this

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news.yahoo.com

 

[maytagbear]

Uh, what's the

big whoop?

Most adults have a state issued photo id, if not a driver's license, so what's the big whoop?

Also, if a person carries an United States passport, that's a nationally accessable id......

Yeah, I am a Democrat, but I also know that the only truly private place for now is between a person's ears.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[mistereric]

I have a social security number, and a passport, and a driver license. What would this card do for me that these other forms of ID already don't?

 

[panthera]

I am not

entirely sure, but I don't think you can even see a doctor in Colorado without photo ID, anymore...and any refund at Wyoming Walmarts require photo ID.

Isn't it kinda late in the game to be upset about this? After all, you can't even refuse to give your SSN anymore to just about every store - and that was expressly forbidden way back in the beginning.

Maybe it's because we have ID cards in Europe and more civil rights than Americans do, but it's just not that big a deal.

Of course, over here, gays have full human status which we don't in the US, either.

 

[hunter]

biometric identification.

Once you start adding biometric identification, not to mention requiring such a card for every day activities (and it WILL BE look at how many times you must give your social security number) you are right up there with Nazi Germany who found all the jews and gay folks via census records.

It is tyranny. Pure and simple.

 

[mistereric]

I already had to give out my biometric information. Working for school systems, I've had to give up fingerprints, both to the City Of New York and the state of New Jersey. Not a big deal for me.

I don't think you can figure out if someone is gay or Jewish using biometric information. Also, we're not in Nazi Germany.

Nevertheless... what does this card do for the average American? If the only point is to prevent illegal labor, shouldn't other systems already in place deal with that? I hate to think we're on the cusp of spending a bunch of money on yet another thing that might not work. Maybe we fix what we have already?

Godwin's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[panthera]

The biometric requirement

was put in by the rethuglicans under the shrub dictatorship, so we need not discuss that.

Yes, it is quite true that the Nazis used everything they could to track down and murder Jews, Roma, gays and handicapped children.
The US is not, however, Nazi Germany.

There are several million Mexicans, South Americans and people from the Philippines who have applied legally for green cards. They have followed all the rules, done everything "good Americans" want them to do - and they must wait and wait, some up to 20 years for their green card.
Yup, you read that right. Twenty years.

As much as I despise the christianist,fascist Arizona regime, we just plain must not forget that there are at least 450,000 undocumented people in Arizona.

Every police officer who approaches one of them is putting him or herself at risk.
Americans who would be willing to work can't find work because businesses find it cheaper to hire undocumented workers at slave labor pay.

The educational and medical systems as well as other infra-structure are breaking down because these people can't find legal work.

We need comprehensive immigration reform and we need it soon. Fair and balanced. Right now, for instance, there are well over 100,000 American gays living abroad with their partners because American immigration law does not recognize foreign gay marriage and partnerships. In fact, despite the promises of our "strong advocate", it is still the case that as soon as an American marries someone of the same sex abroad, their new spouse is denied entry into the US.

Let's at least see what Washington has to offer before we start throwing stones. The current situation is untenable.

Of course, this would be an excellent opportunity to finally grant gays full human status.[this post was last edited: 4/30/2010-12:11]

 

[peterh770]

Can we please drop the Nazi nonsense? PLEASE?

Arizona passed a law that strengthens and supports the federal law. They are going to do the job the feds won't do. Good for them and let's see the feds grow a set and step up to the plate (fat chance under this administration).

And because of this administration, there will be nothing for gay people in any immigration reform. Nothing. He has no intention on doing anything because it isn't a hot button. Got to make political hay while he can, and unless he is stumping in California, it won't come up and/or be addressed.

 

[panthera]

The fascist-christianist Gauleiterin

of Arizona also just removed every single one of the rights gays had been extended under the previous administration in Arizona.
We now have zero rights in that state.
Zero.

Peter, I'm a little surprised that a conservative would support a law which imperils police officers and puts American citizens in the position of having to prove justify their comings and goings to government officials?

 

[panthera]

Peter, you have a point

And if I hadn't hit the button so fast, I wouldn't be posting twice.
Somebody needs to point out to this administration and do it soon that without our votes, they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell in Dixie - we are big in the cities and without us, buh-bye Democrats, hullo secessionists. Or worse.[this post was last edited: 4/30/2010-13:41]

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/15993/88-visits-to-the-white-house-and-what-major-progress-do-we-have-bupkis

 

[hunter]

at this point...

I'm thinking the secessionists might not have a bad idea.

And I hate that thought. This land was once the best and freest place on earth.

No longer.

The boomers have won - we now are a 3rd world pit.

 

[panthera]

Oh, Hunter

I had the "pleasure" of travelling throughout communist Europe back in the day.

The US at her worst is enormously better than that was.

You really have to live abroad for a while - I mean live, not just visit, to understand just how good the US government is. The US Constitution even withstood the onslaughts of the shrub dictatorship.

Yes, you would have more civil rights in Western Europe (outside of the UK, but that's a special case). You would walk safer streets, see fewer people dying in agony because they might become "addicted" to pain-killers.
Fewer children aborted, fewer marriages end in divorce.
You'd see gays treated as human beings and the strictest separation of church and state.
Good education systems, integration of the mentally and physically handicapped into normal society.
A drive for energy independence (Germany wants to achieve total independence from gas by 2015, we are on schedule to make it and achieve electrical independence by 2018).

Great food, great beer, six-week vacations and a much higher degree of happiness than in the US.

And you would hate it.

Part of being a libertarian is having a system to be angry about. Look at all the good things you have going for you in the US. No, it's not perfect but a country which can still muster so much outrage over ID cards and that fascist governor next door to you is still alive and kicking.

But, if you do come over, would you bring PeterH, please? I want to see the look on his face when he finds out that our capitalists have a higher return on investment than they do in the US...

 

[hunter]

actually I would love to...

I would love to live in Europe for a while. I tried to get a job in UK in the early 1990s, but that didn't work out - which is just as well as they have become a real Big Brother type state.

But I would enjoy Germany or Switzerland.

One thing I have noticed is that Europeans in general put a lot of thought into what they do, as do I. It is a pleasure to deal with them.

Hunter

 

[gansky1]

And because of this administration, there will be nothing f

Really? Read on.

Perhaps this is why Lindsey (Where's your wife?) Graham R-SC is opposed to this? As will all other R's be opposed. Hypocrites one and all.

Sen. Harry Reid's Immigration Proposal Includes Gay Families

An immigration reform 'framework' proposed Thursday by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and fellow Democrats includes gay families

www.ontopmag.com

 

[hunter]

but...this is not immigration reform.

It is further control of the US populace, pure and simple.

Do any of you know who Fred Reed is? His blogs are very entertaining.

 

[gansky1]

control of the populace?

I'm with the others who can't understand how that is true when you cannot hold a job, enroll in a public school or most all colleges and universities without a Social Security card. You cannot get Medicare/Medicaid benefits without an ID card. You cannot drive a car without valid ID on your person at all times. You cannot board an aircraft, enter another country, on and on. So another form of ID, that likely would supplant a current required ID card is subverting our rights how? It just makes no sense and sounds more like that defective Glenn Beck-style fear-mongering.

Just like the Arizona "Papers Please, Pablo" law, portions of the recent health-care finance reform bill, any coming immigration "reform" and all others must stand up to the test of constitutional muster. [this post was last edited: 4/30/2010-16:35]

 

[hunter]

And you are now seeing my point...

Gansky1, you're seeing my point, yes.

And what happens when you're tracked constantly with an RFID enabled national ID card?

"At this time you were here so you must be guilty of this crime" "But I wasn't!" "Ah, but the RFID in your card says you were! Cuff him!"

It's not what it is used for now, it is what it will be used for.

Honestly you people are as bad as the Republicans. If it is your boy who says something it is okay...

 

[mattl]

No one is talking about RFID in the cards as far as i have heard. Plus the range of an RFID transmitter is low, typically 3.5' or if they are super sized up to 65'. Using that to track someone would require a massive security net, and that expenditure is not likely to happen for a long time if it was ever to be feasible.

I think the simple answer for a Nation ID card would be to integrate it into existing Id. My MI drivers License has a magnetic strip with all the pertinent info, just add whatever else is needed, same with ID card for non-drivers. There is no need for another layer of bureaucracy.

In today's world it is very easy to track most anyone via credit card use. I though about it and I really don't care if Visa knows I like Crest toothpaste and Charmin bath tissue. If I did I'd use cash, and not use store discount programs. I'm sure there is a very thick file on me since I use credit cards for basically every thing I buy, it's just easier. Easier to track spending, easier to track down a receipt, easier to in general. If you want to live under the radar for the most part, and I think it's pretty hard you'd have to use cash for everything, no checks even. It's doable, but hard, and for me not worth the trouble.

 

[lordkenmore]

"If I did I'd use cash, and not use store discount programs."

I remember when those @#%Q#$@# sale cards came out, privacy advocates were really worried in my area. Apparently, some people still refuse to have a card for that reason.

One grocery store, Albertsons), gives cards (or has given cards in the past) without requiring any name/address/contact info. Although they encourage people to give contact info in case the card gets lost or whatever. For that matter, one can get the prices without having a card in other stores--all you need is a phone number for a valid card holder.