This illustrates the habit of doing multiple loads of laundry on one day like was done with wringer washers. This was the model for doing laundry that had to be broken before the washer-dryer combinations could be used to greatest efficiency but as long as people tried to do all of the laundry in one day, the machines that were meant to make washday disappear could be frustrating to use. It was interesting to see how quickly my mother stopped having a washday once we got rid of the Kenmore with the sudssaver.
POD 6-2-21 WP SudsMiser
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I rarely run multiple loads on a given day ... unless I'm washing bedsheets, blanket or comforter, and/or pillows. I don't run a load of "regular" clothes until I'm near-out of the type of item ... shirts, jeans, shorts & underwear, etc. Socks is my trigger for whites, bath & kitchen linens.
repairguy
Well-known member
I sure would like to have one of those storage tubs. I’ve found a couple over the years but no one willing to ship. Wouldn’t mind the washer either.
Seems Whirlpool was thinking "HE" long before the term was invented.
Company seemed to be conscience about water use and the combo that came out several years after this kind of proves that. No standing water but a filter stream.
Then though Kenmore in the early 60s the auto water level. I wonder how many actually got sold ? Apparently not too many as someone on this site would most definitely have found one by now....but then again rarer brands have been found.
Company seemed to be conscience about water use and the combo that came out several years after this kind of proves that. No standing water but a filter stream.
Then though Kenmore in the early 60s the auto water level. I wonder how many actually got sold ? Apparently not too many as someone on this site would most definitely have found one by now....but then again rarer brands have been found.
Melvin, Mustee is the manufacturer of those tubs and they are not that expensive. I bought mine at a plumbing supply house locally. It is a model 94.
https://mustee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ELM-312.pdf
https://mustee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ELM-312.pdf
twintubdexter
Well-known member
<span style="font-size: 18.6667px;">Years ago I bought one of those same laundry sinks at a flea market. I installed it next to the Lady Kenmore I had at the time, not for draining the washer or for saving suds. It was the perfect size for giving our black Cocker Spaniel "Cinder" a bath.</span>
repairguy
Well-known member
Thanks for the info Tom. I’ve looked into that model before at least online and it shows to be discontinued everywhere. Maybe I’ll have to try the local plumbing supply as you did.
I still have a ‘washday”, in fact today was “washday” and I typically do 3 loads, 1 load of whites, and 2 loads of colors. Takes me approx 3 hours to wash and dry all three loads. Using the dryer for successive loads is supposed to be more energy efficient as its already heated up. On Saturday I change the bed and wash the sheets.
My Mom had a ‘62 MOL Whirlpool with a suds saver in the kitchen and a laundry sink inclosed in a white enameled metal cabinet much like the one in the POD next to it. When she later traded the Whirlpool for an Maytag Model E in ‘69 we used the laundry sink for rinsing. Mom called this sink the “slop sink” and used it to soak large pans like the roaster after roasting a turkey.
Eddie
My Mom had a ‘62 MOL Whirlpool with a suds saver in the kitchen and a laundry sink inclosed in a white enameled metal cabinet much like the one in the POD next to it. When she later traded the Whirlpool for an Maytag Model E in ‘69 we used the laundry sink for rinsing. Mom called this sink the “slop sink” and used it to soak large pans like the roaster after roasting a turkey.
Eddie
launderess
Well-known member
We've had this discussion before off and one...
Suds saving or whatever you want to call them systems were Whirlpool's and others way of getting at the housewife who for various reasons cling to semi-automatic (wringer) washers.
Some of those reasons were practical, not every home had an unlimited supply of hot water, and or even just plain water. Thus idea of reusing water appealed to some who did laundry so they clung to wringer washers. Suds saving devices allowed those housewives or whoever to step up into a fully automatic washer, but still have benefits of water (and detergent) savings.
Various consumer testing or other groups were often less impressed. They pointed out drawbacks such as saved water normally had cooled too much from hot to be of any use. Then you had those who harped on the same "ick" factor that they didn't like about wringer washers or any other semi-automatic where wash water was used for more than one load.
Suds saving or whatever you want to call them systems were Whirlpool's and others way of getting at the housewife who for various reasons cling to semi-automatic (wringer) washers.
Some of those reasons were practical, not every home had an unlimited supply of hot water, and or even just plain water. Thus idea of reusing water appealed to some who did laundry so they clung to wringer washers. Suds saving devices allowed those housewives or whoever to step up into a fully automatic washer, but still have benefits of water (and detergent) savings.
Various consumer testing or other groups were often less impressed. They pointed out drawbacks such as saved water normally had cooled too much from hot to be of any use. Then you had those who harped on the same "ick" factor that they didn't like about wringer washers or any other semi-automatic where wash water was used for more than one load.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
I think a suds save is not an hassle or frustrating to use at all.
And at best you can reuse water no more than three times any way.
You can do a load of whites and at best a load of datks afterward as you will have warm water by then.
I still see lots doing 2 consequent washes. Whites and darks.
No more laundry day though.
With the wringer washer laundry day was unavoidable as it was quite some job to pull it out plug fill empty flush plus the thing laying around every day in the kitchen was a no. Also there was the matter with smaller water heaters back then not allowing to replace water at every load.
It is just that today people rarely do laundry on a given day but do It when basket has enough for a load.
That is for many reasons.
Said that, only some models had this feature anyway and was a plus and inherited habit-request from the day of wringer washers.
We could see how the feauture disappeared on all <span style="font-size: 12pt;">the models sold during the following decades. From any makers.</span>
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">I do not see how the w/d combinations have really anything to do with it.</span>
I think It got to do with habits changing and role of women changing. Women having jobs other than housekeeping, homes being more practical and needing to be kept tidy and possibly without mountains of laundry accumulating.
There was a nice advertising kind of documentary from whirlpool that showed how for them It had not been so eaay at first.
The first suds return mechanisms as they were implementing them would not work like they thought they would.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Mother takes a holiday is a laundry classic in these parts.
My grandmother had a 1950-ish Whirlpool with the suds saver and a double set-tub so it worked beautifully...so much so that she special-ordered a Maytag in the late 70s. She'd always add the small scoop of Tide with the second load and a dose of LaFrance. I think the order was whites first, then colors.
Keep in mind
Those of us with 2 or 3 washers installed and running can use the hot sudsy water from one machine immediately in the next machine, darn little loss of heat.
Those of us with 2 or 3 washers installed and running can use the hot sudsy water from one machine immediately in the next machine, darn little loss of heat.
easyspindry
Well-known member
The only person I knew . . .
. . . that had a suds saver machine (Kenmore) lived on a farm and had well water. They had 3 or 4 children, and the suds saver mechanism helped to keep the well from running dry in the dry summers. She told me she would even adjust the timer knob so she could save the rinse water if it wasn't too sudsy.
Jerry Gay
. . . that had a suds saver machine (Kenmore) lived on a farm and had well water. They had 3 or 4 children, and the suds saver mechanism helped to keep the well from running dry in the dry summers. She told me she would even adjust the timer knob so she could save the rinse water if it wasn't too sudsy.
Jerry Gay
I don't know directly of anyone around here who had a suds saver, although presumably there were some of the very early WP models that included it (or was it, even then, always an option?).
Most houses built in the south in the post WWII building boom did not have basements with set tubs and many older homes in the south were not built with basements. Automatic washers installed in kitchens or small utility rooms usually did not have space for a laundry tub in smaller tract houses. Basements in our neighborhood were an option and availability was dictated by the grade of the lot. Just because a house had a basement did not mean that the sewer connection allowed a drain outlet to the street that was low enough to allow tubs. Our basement had a standpipe that was up because the pipe went out about 3 or 4 feet on the wall. We lived miles from Stone Mountain but granite underlaid the ground in the counties around it and there were even granite quarries in towns with names like Lithonia which means city of stone. The granite in the ground prevented the burying of the sewer pipes any deeper without blasting. So in that area and at that time, sudsaver washers were not a big seller.
Sudssavers or SudsMisers had to be optional because so many installations did not allow for dealing with the wash water coming out of a second hose. My first paper route, or at least the oldest part of the route, was built before there was natural gas service and the homes still had the old separate meter for the electric water heater on the wall of the house beside the main power meter, but the laundry hookups were in the kitchens with no tub for a sudssaver. I do not know if there could have been connections in the houses that had basements. A lot of older homes in the area that did nave gas service had fearsome contraptions called floor furnaces that vented up through the walls and out through the roof, but were always fenced when in operation to prevent burned feet if anyone walked across the hot 2 foot by 3 foot grill in the floor, usually in a high traffic area like a hallway. They were good for drying clothes in the winter.
Sudssavers or SudsMisers had to be optional because so many installations did not allow for dealing with the wash water coming out of a second hose. My first paper route, or at least the oldest part of the route, was built before there was natural gas service and the homes still had the old separate meter for the electric water heater on the wall of the house beside the main power meter, but the laundry hookups were in the kitchens with no tub for a sudssaver. I do not know if there could have been connections in the houses that had basements. A lot of older homes in the area that did nave gas service had fearsome contraptions called floor furnaces that vented up through the walls and out through the roof, but were always fenced when in operation to prevent burned feet if anyone walked across the hot 2 foot by 3 foot grill in the floor, usually in a high traffic area like a hallway. They were good for drying clothes in the winter.
re: second electric meter for water heating--I see those in basements around here and am fascinated by them--Detroit Edison was, I guess, advocating those in the 40s and 50s. I saw one a couple years ago that apparently was switchable for peak/offpeak use (top/bottom element) with a note that peak use was $$$. Would be interested to see whether they've all been decommissioned...have tried to look them up on Google to see how they were handled in the advertising.
Electric water heating was very expensive. Customers who had it, like if they had oil heat were given a bit of a break with the second meter at a lower rate, but it might have been a time of use meter which only allowed the water heater to operate at off peak hours or recorded the time of use and really stuck customers if they used it during other times. I remember my father telling me about that in the house in Grand Ridge with oil heat. He said they tried it with demand water heating and it was very expensive. Then they tried it with off peak heating and there was no hot water all day. That was the house where I got to stand on the little stool and hold the cold water hose to fill the Kenmore with cold water for the deep rinse. Maybe they had one of those meters. He said he met the digging crew with presents when they laid the gas lines down the street. Remember our discussion about the POD ad for the TOL Norge washer with the clock so the washer could turn on at off peak hours?
I don't know why there were not more oil water heaters, just mostly electric if there was no gas. Oil was very fast for water heating, but might have been dirty. Maybe gas service was promised in a reasonable amount of time to my paper route customers when they bought the houses.
John told me about the off peak rates in Elkhart, IN that were something like 3 cents a KWH. With solar and other technologies like heat pumps and the systems that heat water with the waste heat of the Central AC, water heating costs can be reduced.
I don't know why there were not more oil water heaters, just mostly electric if there was no gas. Oil was very fast for water heating, but might have been dirty. Maybe gas service was promised in a reasonable amount of time to my paper route customers when they bought the houses.
John told me about the off peak rates in Elkhart, IN that were something like 3 cents a KWH. With solar and other technologies like heat pumps and the systems that heat water with the waste heat of the Central AC, water heating costs can be reduced.
A post from someone who remembers having one
Our house when I was growing up had two meters, one was for the electric water heater. The one for the water heater used a timer so it only ran during non-peak periods for a lower rate (this was in the 1950s, by the way, so off peak electrical setups aren't anything new.)
Our house when I was growing up had two meters, one was for the electric water heater. The one for the water heater used a timer so it only ran during non-peak periods for a lower rate (this was in the 1950s, by the way, so off peak electrical setups aren't anything new.)
jeb
Well-known member
demand meter
My father installed a 220 demand meter that only allowed 1 220 appliance to run at a time. if you ran the dryer the stove and hot water heater would not work. if you ran the stove the dryer and hot water heater would not work ect, If mom ran a load of clothes in hot water then put them in the dryer no hot water for next load (or anything else. If she was cooking had to remember to start dryer when done. I remember her getting large kettles of water hot on the stove so she could have hot water to clean with and run the dryer.
My father installed a 220 demand meter that only allowed 1 220 appliance to run at a time. if you ran the dryer the stove and hot water heater would not work. if you ran the stove the dryer and hot water heater would not work ect, If mom ran a load of clothes in hot water then put them in the dryer no hot water for next load (or anything else. If she was cooking had to remember to start dryer when done. I remember her getting large kettles of water hot on the stove so she could have hot water to clean with and run the dryer.
That sounds like the Green Acres electrical situation which was so believable for someone with as much money as Oliver was supposed to have had while living in that dump.
Could your father not put in gas appliances if he was worried about the amount of electricity the household used?
Could your father not put in gas appliances if he was worried about the amount of electricity the household used?
launderess
Well-known member
Am no expert, but believe oil water heaters run hotter (due to nature of fuel), and thus have shorter lifespan than gas or electric. The intense heat does a number on units, but it varied by model then and now. Some last long as gas or electric tank units, others not so much.
It varies by type of oil, but the lower grades are pretty much like bunker fuel, and thus nasty to burn. Creates lots of soot and other by products that cause unit to require more maintenance than cleaner burning gas or electric. If you don't do the maintenance unit will have shorter life span and or operate with lower efficiency.
Many homes using oil for heating (steam or hot water) just used either a side arm or coil boiler for unlimited "tankless" hot water for "free".
It varies by type of oil, but the lower grades are pretty much like bunker fuel, and thus nasty to burn. Creates lots of soot and other by products that cause unit to require more maintenance than cleaner burning gas or electric. If you don't do the maintenance unit will have shorter life span and or operate with lower efficiency.
Many homes using oil for heating (steam or hot water) just used either a side arm or coil boiler for unlimited "tankless" hot water for "free".
The first two or three years after we moved into this house in 1957, the hot water came from the oil-fired boiler, the same as the baseboard heat. The equipment was original to the homes construction in 1952. My parents were not satisfied with this arrangement, so had an 80 gallon Rheem electric water heater installed in 1960 or 61. This proved to be much better.
Separate electric meters for water heaters were not used in my immediate area, nor anywhere in CG&E (now Duke Energy) territory to the best of my knowledge. However, DP&L (Dayton, OH) did use them. Some family friends that lived several miles away were in the DP&L area, and their house had this meter arrangement. It consisted of three meter sockets. One held a meter for the regular house load, another for the WH time switch, and the other a meter for the WH. This of course required a separate disconnect and circuit breakers for the water heater. There was a good illustrated explanation of this type of system in the older editions of the Wiring Simplified book by H.P. Richter. I don't know if the newer editions have this or not
Separate electric meters for water heaters were not used in my immediate area, nor anywhere in CG&E (now Duke Energy) territory to the best of my knowledge. However, DP&L (Dayton, OH) did use them. Some family friends that lived several miles away were in the DP&L area, and their house had this meter arrangement. It consisted of three meter sockets. One held a meter for the regular house load, another for the WH time switch, and the other a meter for the WH. This of course required a separate disconnect and circuit breakers for the water heater. There was a good illustrated explanation of this type of system in the older editions of the Wiring Simplified book by H.P. Richter. I don't know if the newer editions have this or not
I just called Mustee and the tub is no longer manufactured. I did see a tub in a cabinet at Costco last year. Maybe we can try to find something like that. As I remember it was wider than the Mustee.
repairguy
Well-known member
Wow Tom thanks for your time in checking with the company. I haven’t had a chance to go by the local plumbing supply yet but I know last time I really dug into it on the internet all avenues I found showed NLA. Suds savers never were common around these parts so neither are the sinks. I found a vintage one on market place a while back but the seller wouldn’t ship it.
One time I almost got a Maytag A207S suds saver washer but literally sold within a hour of it being posted and if I did end up with it, it would be my very first suds saver washer but I’d only would save the water from lightly soiled laundry and wouldn’t bother with saving water from heavily soiled laundry but sadly someone bought it before I did.
launderess
Well-known member
Problem with using indirect or direct hot water off a boiler is you have to keep that thing on all year long. You can switch controls to "summer" which will lower water temp inside boiler so it won't heat building, but things must still be high enough to generate hot water.
Tree huggers and others have such arrangements in their cross hairs. Either by zoning or other local ordinances (largely aimed at capping emissions and or otherwise making buildings more energy efficient/green), or just simply forcing certain types of heating over others.
For ages indirect or direct hot water heating off a boiler was considered state of the art. You got "free" hot water and there wasn't problem with heat losses due to storing water in a tank.
Powers that be in certain areas would much rather see more separate instant water heating systems independent of boiler, or more energy efficient systems for getting hot water such as heat pumps, solar and so forth.
Ironically at least when it came to those old heavy high density cast iron or even steel boilers they actually had longer life if left heating all year long. Shutting them down over warmer times of year lead to all sorts of issues including faster rusting/rotting out of interior components.
There are boilers installed sixty to nearly one hundred years ago that still are chugging along. No, they aren't exactly efficient compared to modern standards, but many are at 85% which isn't too shabby.
Tree huggers and others have such arrangements in their cross hairs. Either by zoning or other local ordinances (largely aimed at capping emissions and or otherwise making buildings more energy efficient/green), or just simply forcing certain types of heating over others.
For ages indirect or direct hot water heating off a boiler was considered state of the art. You got "free" hot water and there wasn't problem with heat losses due to storing water in a tank.
Powers that be in certain areas would much rather see more separate instant water heating systems independent of boiler, or more energy efficient systems for getting hot water such as heat pumps, solar and so forth.
Ironically at least when it came to those old heavy high density cast iron or even steel boilers they actually had longer life if left heating all year long. Shutting them down over warmer times of year lead to all sorts of issues including faster rusting/rotting out of interior components.
There are boilers installed sixty to nearly one hundred years ago that still are chugging along. No, they aren't exactly efficient compared to modern standards, but many are at 85% which isn't too shabby.
launderess
Well-known member
Not only those Mustee tubs, but those portable single and double laundry tubs of aluminum or galvanized metal go for very good money if in good condition.
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