Point Voyager versus Clean Water Wash

[Marky_Mark]

What do you guys think about these two different KitchenAid dishwashers that are for sale close to me?  Is one better than the other?

 

Photo #1 is the Clean Water Wash version from several years ago.  I assume this alternates spray arms.

 

Photo #2 looks like it might be an older Point Voyager, in which case I don't think it would alternate spray arms.  Or is it a Tahoe or a Global Wash or something else?

 

In fact, what is a Tahoe / Global Wash anyway?

 

Mark 

 

[henene4]

That second one has a diverter, pretty certainly.

Those plastic pieces at the back wall of the tub have many names, but are basically all the same.
They are seperate nozzles that can be activated. You place pans and other heavy soil flat dishes in front of them, vertically. You set the corresponding option and some spray time is separately devoted for those items.

These have seperate positions on the diverter.
I don't think any machines with those sprays don't have a diverter.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Hi Henrik

 

From the information I've been able to glean from this site, some dishwashers with those targeted rear jets do not have a diverter and they do run the upper and lower spray arms at the same time.  When the rear jet zone option is selected by the user, there is an electromagnet outside the tub that "pulls" a ball into a different position.  This ball is located in the tubing that leads to the upper rack and the top sprayer.  The ball moves and activates the rear jets.  I would assume the lower wash arm would continue uninterrupted throughout.  Hopefully someone can confirm that.  If not, I'll just have to buy the machine and do some testing!

 

[qsd-dan]

I have a Point Voyager (Kitchenaid) that came with the house and I'm not at all happy with it. Things definitely need to be clean before putting them in the racks, even when using the Pots and Pan Cycle with every option selected.

Filtration SUCKS (bad design), top rack struggles to get clean, the macerator is comprised of beer can metal (at least compared to the UltraWash models) and is essentially useless, the macerator screen easily plugs up, the wash arms need to have stuff picked out of the jets on almost every run, the sump regularly needs to be cleaned out. This is on mechanically softened water.

I've been looking for a low mileage Ultra Wash to replace it. Found one last week about an hour away but it got swiped really quick.

Do NOT recommend.

 

[bigalsf]

The first one you've pictured is not a point voyager but a later series. This one alternates the wash arms, and does not run any arms while using the rear Pro-Wash jets. I have worked on several of these; they are OK but not very powerful performers (and they take it at least 2 1/2 hours to complete a normal cycle.

The second one pictured is a later generation of a Point Voyager (smaller motor, slightly different designed sump). These do not alternate the washrooms and provide a more powerful action. I have an older point voyager model that works very well; I throw everything at it, and it rarely fails to clean everything. We also have mechanically softened water.

The first one pictured is newer, however, and if it's in good condition, and you have soft water, it will work fine.

Good luck and let us know which one you pick.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Thank you very much for the insight, Dan and Alan.

 

I don't have much experience with relatively modern American dishwashers, so I want to expand my horizons by trying a few of them out and probably passing them on (unless they are worth keeping).  

 

Is this Kenmore Elite dishwasher a PowerClean?  The interior looks rather like a KUDS24 or 25.  I do already have two older PowerCleans.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Whirlpool.

So what wash system is Whirlpool currently using on their own dishwashers? I mean, they're not making the global wash system anymore. So what are they using?[this post was last edited: 2/18/2024-16:10]

 

[appnut]

Mark, I do believe the Kenmore Elite is the last of the Power Clean --KUD24 and KUD25.

 

[bigalsf]

Kenmore DW

Yes, that is a Power Clean model. I actually had this model, and it works very well! You can program a favorite cycle and the upper rack is actually adjustable on the left side. The silverware basket also splits apart so you can use half of it if you want and have more room on the bottom rack.

If you're able to snag this, you will not be disappointed. And parts are still plentiful in case something does go wrong. Good good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Marky_Mark]

Thanks, Alan and Bob.

Alan, do you happen to remember the model number of this Kenmore dishwasher? I’d be interested to download the manual and look at the cycle chart.

Mark

 

[qsd-dan]

You'll be disappointed in the Point Voyager (and probably even more so with the newer models) compared to your Powerclean models. The only positive effect is a quieter wash.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Point voyager vs Clean water wash

After owning both, there is no comparison. The Clean Water Wash design is significantly better. Though, that version of the Point Voyager is more of the Tahoe design which did clean better, but also ran 2.5 hours for a cycle. The Clean Water Wash DW should be a little bit better in every way except maybe longevity, though the Tahoe machines have issues too. Supposedly lots of leaks. 

 

[qsd-dan]

Just searched the 'Tube about the Clean Water Wash system. That design and filter appears to be far, far worse than my Point Voyager. Have to pull the entire dishwasher out and lay it on its back to clean/service the filter. Speaking of the filter, it looks very delicate and degrades quickly. No thanks!



I didn't see anything about the Tahoe design but I also didn't search aggressively. Does it go by another name?

 

[egress]

FWIW, that filter issue is caused if you wash items without removing stickers. the stickers partially dissolve but the cellulose fibers dont break down easily, plug the filter, and then that happens. I don't expect that will happen under normal use as long as you're cautious.
my previous experience with a point voyager and now the clean water wash system has been definitive - that being the clean water wash system outperforms the point voyager by miles. no more yiblets on the top rack, and its soooo much quieter!

 

[gelaundry4ever]

whirlpool clean water wash

Does anybody know if Whirlpool is using the clean water wash?

 

[qsd-dan]

soooo much quieter!

The Point Voyager is damn near silent to me, I can't imagine someone complaining about its noise level or giving a rats patootie being any quieter. Maybe I've been around the vintage stuff way too long...

I see long term problems with the clean wash design, particularly with the electric driven pump. Just something else to die and fix. Also, there's quite a few extra areas/connections to leak vs previous older designs...

But, if it tickles your fancy, have at it

 

[maytaga806]

Those are beautiful Kitchenaids!! Both of them are an excellent choice, but with the older point voyager it’s only worth finding one with low mileage in grade A plus conditions. For me, we had a Maytag Jetclean from 2009 which was the point voyager kind. Never had issues with its cleaning efforts, it cleaned flawlessly. Just really didn’t like the sump design, the food chopper assembly can get very easily clogged. The motor was apparently made by LG I’ve learned?? The control boards for that particular generation of Maytags were so notorious for failures and ours failed twice which is why we got rid of it. The next generation of Maytag dishwashers that came out in 2015 and ended around 2020 was far better than the point voyagers, more superior, a more refined version, much more powerful and much quieter too and we own one of these now, the thinner holes on the wash arms make for a sharper jet stream on the dishes I’ve noticed in comparison to the older point voyager generation. The roof jet arm is so much better than the previous Maytag we had and provides better streams of water from what I’ve seen recording inside the dishwasher upon testing. For the first time in history, all Maytag dishwashers now alternate the spray arms since the new generation came out in 2020. Glad I got the one we did from 2019 that does not do that, has never served a single disappointment cycle after cycle. The filtration in this machine is interesting, has a strainer over the drain and a mesh filter piece over the sump, but what I really don’t like it how the food chopper assembly is not able to be reached by entering the sump, you have the flip the machine upside down and remove the motor to get to it if it ever had to be cleaned. Cleaning Results from this machine are no different than what my portable powerclean gives me, really love it and it’s a highly underrated series.

 

[appnut]

MY Bosch actually cleans better than the GSD1200 Potscrubber. And both the 2006 (Point Voyager) and 2015 Kenmore Elite (KitchenAids) can't hold a candle to my Bosch. Glad to see the glowing results Egress reports with the Clean Water Wasj system but I have serious concerns with points qsd-dan raises. Wouldn't surprise me if I continue to select Bosch.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

to appnut

I agree with you. I have the Kenmore version of the Bosch, and it NEVER disappoints.