Poll numbers

[jeffg]

Why is this race even close? That isn't a rhetorical question. Please, someone help me understand.

Do most of us want a 72 year-old, 4-time cancer patient as our president, with a VP who believes rape and incest victims should be denied legal abortion?

Do we enjoy paying $4 for a gallon of gas, while oil companies rake in record profits every quarter?

Are most of us secure in our jobs?

Do most of us think a collapsing housing market is a good sign?

Do most of us favor the continued occupation of Iraq?

Are we glad that, seven years after 9/11, the mastermind and chief financier of the attack are still free?

Do our senior citizens appreciate being forced to choose between food and medicine every month?

Do we enjoy paying for universal healthcare for the Iraqi people, while their own government is running an $80 billion a year surplus, and while in our own country, we're forced to sign away our constitutional rights to a court trial just to obtain health insurance? Am I the only American who's outraged by this?

Are most of us happy to see our real wages decreasing every year? Are 55% of our families glad they're living from paycheck to paycheck?

Do we believe record high budget and trade deficits are good for our economy?

Are the people of Ohio and Pennsylvania happy that nearly half of their manufacturing jobs have been exported overseas?

I'm absolutely astonished by these recent poll numbers. It appears roughly half of us, and God forbid maybe even a slight majority want another four years of the last eight.

 

[peterh770]

Because some smarter Americans don't want a Marxist for a president whose idea of changes is more entitlement programs paid for by the high achievers. And then Mr. Change goes and gets a VP who has been in Congress since the 70's. Some change. Maybe if he hadn't earned the title of Most Liberal Senator who has only been on this job for only 140 some odd days, he'd have some better credentials. Take away the teleprompters and let's see how he does. He's already crumbling, looking tired, and sounding angry, not hopeful. Let's put his career VP choice against a woman governor with an 80% approval and see if he can hold back being a condesending sexist.

McCain ain't no Bush. Move on from that tired argument.

OK, lets break this down by your points

Palin has said that her personal views may not be the best policy. She and President can't do anything, that is in the legislature and the courts. And even if a Constructionist judge is appointed, they can't do anything unless a case has been brought up. It's been how many years and how many cases and Roe v. Wade still stand and will continue to stand.

The oil companies average about 8 cents per gallon. They have a very small comparable net profit. Any profit they gain belongs to the stockholders, which, when it comes to "energy" stocks, is usually owned by retirees. The govt gets about 18 cents per gallon. Who here is really making the profit? In a free-market society, there should be LESS govt control on oil.

If you are not secure in your job, then what are you doing to gain more education and skills in case something happens? You get your own job, the govt doesn't give it to you, they can't force business to hire you.

When less than 5% homes are being forclosed on, that is not a crisis. If people overextended themselves, they have no one to blame. Read the small print. Caveat emptor, or something like that.

We went into Iraq, we need to finish what we started. We are still in Germany and Japan, and it has been over 50 years. No war has been won in 2 years. Besides, the new Iraqi govt has met something like 80 percent of their milestones needed before we pull out, and they are already talking about pulling out troops next year.

After 9/11, there has been no further attacks on our soil. Bin Laden is in a cave; it's not like he is roaming free, thumbing his nose at us. Unless he is under a burque, the big sissy coward...

Most seniors already get their meds at a discount from the companies or insurance or thru some elder-care organizations.

Your health is your responsibility, not the govt. Have you talked with your doctor about having a cash-and-carry with him? This whole "universal health care" is a HUGE insurance scam (IMO). Medical doctors are leaving their practices because of the cost for them to be in business and the regulation they are under. You think the govt is going to force people to become doctors or force present doctors to treat you? (I need to look up about us funding Iraqi health care, this is the first I heard of that.)

If your "real" wages are decreasing, then you are obviously not an asset to your employer to EARN an increase. Have a look at your paycheck -- aren't you more angry about the amount of taxes being taken out? Expect more to fund Obama's programs...

Lower the corporate taxes to make it more appealing to keep jobs here on our soil. Ireland is a booming country since they lowered theirs. This is one sure-fire thing the govt can do to keep jobs here and attract other businesses.

Damn! I was at a great wash-in, it is now 4am, and stupid politics are now keeping me awake...

 

[jeffg]

> Palin has said that her personal views may not be the best policy. She and President can't do anything, that is in the legislature and the courts. And even if a Constructionist judge is appointed, they can't do anything unless a case has been brought up. It's been how many years and how many cases and Roe v. Wade still stand and will continue to stand. <

That's absolute nonsense. The fact is, our Supreme Court is ONE SEAT away from turning into yet another implementer of the far right's agenda, especially on the topic of abortion. And it's highly probable our next president will be nominating at least TWO, and possibly THREE new justices to the court.

As for Palin, I will not vote for her because she subscribes to right-wing extremist positions on abortion, gay rights and other issues. The tenability of these views has nothing to do with anything. The important part is, inside her head she believes I and my community are sick, evil and are going to burn in eternal hell because of who we are. And we're supposed to turn around and vote for this clown to represent us? Give us a break, we're just coming off eight years of this gay bashing nonsense from Mr. Bush.

 

[jeffg]

And by the way Peter, your claim that Obama is a Marxist is beyond silly. The fact is, his economic plan calls for a tax cut for 95% of American families. He's going after the other 5% who, unlike the rest of us, can afford to pay more in taxes.

And just so we're clear on Palin's views, she's claiming we need less government control of oil companies, and more government control of women's uteruses. Is that correct?

 

[filter-flo_rob]

Why is this race even close?

... simple ...

Why do some poles declare McCain as the next president; and others, have Obama?:
a)it all depends on who is taking the poll; and,
b)the results they want to achieve.

What irritates me the most is that these polls seem to mean so much to people, and they are allowed to spew forth THEIR results as the only true, one, correct result. Someone who is pro Obama will only listen to polls that say he will be the next president; and conversely, for McCain.

Rob.

 

[appnut]

Peter, so eloquently said!!! YEE HAW!!!

 

[dalangdon]

Peter, really. Marxist? How melodramatic can you get? Do you even know what a Marxist is? Which of the nine distinct schools of Marxist thought does Obama subscribe to?

 

[jeffg]

Rob, I only use one site for my polling data, because it's simply a compilation of all major polls and does not conduct any of its own (see link).

There have been some absurd shenanegans lately (e.g. USA Today/Gallup and Fox News increased the percentages of responses from Republican voters by 10-12% in their recent poll samples, to make it appear as though McCain received a much larger bounce from his convention than he actually did), but the general trend is unambiguous: McCain has closed the 5-6% gap Obama had on him for many months. Even sites who cater to the left and conduct their own polls (e.g. Daily Kos) are now showing an even 46-46% split, which we haven't seen before.

IMO it'll be a miracle if Obama survives the relentless onslaught from the VRWC. They kicked their machine into second gear last week, and except for the Swift Boat Vet/527's it's looking like the Rove/Ailes show all over again. I mean, we have Sarah Palin attacking Joe Biden's experience for chrissakes, how much more Rove-ish could it possibly get?

PollingReport.com

PollingReport.com. A nonpartisan resource on trends in American public opinion.

www.pollingreport.com

 

[MikeS]

A Reminder About These Polls

What everyone needs to understand is this: Polls are simply a snapshot of the moment. They do not reflect what will happen November 4th. Most pollsters agree on one thing: Minds won't be made up until the candidates appear at their four televised debates (three for McCain-Obama; one for Palin-Biden). Once the debates are over, you will see a clearer picture emerge.
Right now, it's a battle for independent "swing" voters who will decide the election. So remember while the various "independent" polls are far different in who's ahead, the race is essentially on hold until after the debates.
BTW, there is some truth that the poll results are affected by the actual questions each organization uses. But the overall trend, from what I've seen, does suggest a dead heat with a significant number still not decided on which candidate to support November 4th.

 

[panthera]

The republicans

as usual, are taking the low road.
This works with those folks in America who don't understand that patriotism means holding strictly to the Constitution.
It is hard to get McCain to mouth the christianist bullshit, but Palin knows all the code words and is really rallying the christianist base. They really believe that her presidency (sic) will result in a complete abortion ban, torture and 're-education' for homosexuals, putting Negros back in 'their' place (somewhere below women and dogs) and that she will stop all this stupid science trash talk about how the earth goes around the sun, evolution and natural selection.
This election will be decided by three things, in my not so humble opinion.
First, whether Negroes are permitted to vote and their votes counted. The republicans and christianists are doing their best to hinder them, as we are already seeing.
Second, the liberals. Their natural tendency is to vote republican because they are opposed to communal effort at anything, especially when it involves taxation. But they also have a strong interest in personal freedoms, and the republicans are well down the road the Nazis took. I hope the majority of liberals who can't forgive T. Jefferson will either vote for Barr or stay home.
Third, whether the young men who are 'independents' comprehend that McSame's policy guarantees a reinstatement of the draft. If we can get them to stop thinking about beer and boobs long enough to form a coherent thought, they will march right in and vote the bums out.

 

[peterh770]

JeffG: " He's going after the other 5% who, unlike the rest of us, can afford to pay more in taxes."
Marx: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Yes, lets play more class envy warfare, especially on those who earn lots of money and keep the economy going.
Yes, let's be clear on Palin's view, which is that her personal view is not necessarily the best thing for the country and Roe v. Wade will stand.

Panthera: "They really believe that her presidency (sic) will result in a complete abortion ban, torture and 're-education' for homosexuals, putting Negros back in 'their' place (somewhere below women and dogs) and that she will stop all this stupid science trash talk about how the earth goes around the sun, evolution and natural selection."
Oh brother, get real already. Who is being melodramatic here?

Dan: Here's a few things that come to mind.
1. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
2. Govt control over communication (Fair Doctrine).
3. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state (govt control of oil, as some in Congress have said or windfall taxation)
4. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies (pro-union).
5. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries (bio-fuels with man-made global warming hysteria scam)
6. Free education for all children in public schools (pro teacher union, not big on parent choice and pro-voucher).

There was a news story I heard this morning waking up, but I can't seem to find the facts on it. Something like that the demographics of the undecided voters matches the demographics of the Hillary supporters. Damned that I can't find it...

 

[jeffg]

Peter, that's not Karl Marx, that's Louis Blanc, who based the principle on Christian Bible passages:

"Although Marx is popularly thought of as the originator of the phrase, the slogan was common to the socialist movement and was first used by Louis Blanc in 1840, in "The organization of work", as a revision of a quote by the utopian socialist Henri de Saint Simon, who claimed that each should be rewarded according to how much they work.

"Despite the secular nature of Marxism, it has been said that the inspiration for this slogan lies in Christianity. An earlier exposition of the idea is found in the Bible, in Acts of the Apostles. Luke describes the organization of the first Christian congregations following the death of Jesus:

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (Acts 2:44-45)
...
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (Acts 4:34-35)"

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for "class envy warfare", you bet your sweet ass. We've had not one but two supply-side catastrophes in the last 25 years. First time around, under Reagan, our national debt quadrupled, and we went from being the world's largest creditor when Reagan took office to being the world's largest debtor by the time he left office. Second time around, Bush has left us a record budget deficit, record trade deficit, the worst job creation record since Herbert Hoover and the greatest income disparity since the Great Depression. Both times the wealth trickled down, all the way to rich people's bank accounts and yachts. And it stopped there.

And you defend this as some kind of proven economic system? It's been proven alright -- to be nothing more than an obscene scam to steal from the poor and give to the rich.

Our middle class (what's left of it) and poor have been bashed and squeezed all they can be. They have nothing left to give.

http://www.counterpunch.org/freeman05302003.html

 

[48bencix]

Iraq

There is a big difference between being in Japan and Germany, there have been zero deaths to US soldiers in those countries. We fought the countries and won. They surrendered, and honored that surrender.

In Iraq, we never fought the county, just bombed the holy heck out of it, basically ruined it. We are technically fighting certain factions there. Who knows how to declare victory in such a situation? Do we sign a surrender with alkida?

Martin

 

[perc-o-prince]

"Most seniors already get their meds at a discount from the companies or insurance or thru some elder-care organizations."

I think you'll find SOME may contact the drug companies et al, but there are still way too many who have to choose between food and drugs. This is why Montel has been travelling around promoting the drug co. plans for helping seniors pay for drugs.

"If your "real" wages are decreasing, then you are obviously not an asset to your employer to EARN an increase."

Not always true. Rich is a huge asset to his company and his supervisors all make sure he knows it. However, his company has been on a pay freeze mandated by the VNA for about 6 months. He deserves a raise, has earned a rise, but won't be getting one until this freeze is ended. It's the same with a lot of companies. In my case, we typically get a 2% raise in each year of a running contract. That's not enough to curb inflation, but it's better than having another company put in a lower bid, then hire us at a much lower rate!

"Medical doctors are leaving their practices because of the cost for them to be in business and the regulation they are under. You think the govt is going to force people to become doctors or force present doctors to treat you?"

No, I don't think the government will force people to become doctors, but they do, in a round-about way force treatment, like in ERs and the like. What government does need to do, in the judicial branch, is throw out these BS malpractice suits that force insurance companies to raise the malpractice insurance rates out of sight! If an MD makes an honest mistake, and it's not through negligence (i.e.- being too tired to concentrate- I've seen it first-hand where one of mine dozed off for a sec), lay off.

"Damn! I was at a great wash-in, it is now 4am, and stupid politics are now keeping me awake..."

Call the cops on the SOB who chained you to the computer and pinned your eyelids open. What? That didn't happen???

Chuck