Poppy comes to Boston

jetcone · Nov 24, 2014

Good for you Bill

I'd recommend if you are going that far replace both bearings. If one is worn then the other has been taking the stress as well.

Thats an easy job once you work around disassembling that pump. I'd be interested to know if the impeller still has all its teeth. The teeth were designed to break off if something got in the pump.

Greg, yes I always put neva-seeze on those threads, especially those threads. OMG Greg I love your new avatar LOL ! Ropes of Consumer Reports Clothing there !! LOL

jetcone · Nov 24, 2014

Seal part numbers

Last time I ordered WCI still had these : also they come up on ebay

Tub seal kit - 6599325

Bellows now there's a lesson!
If you trained in Unimatics then you know the inner bellows was always called the Oil Seal and the outer bellows the Water seal !

But as we know they eliminated the "oil" seal and brought it back on the 1-18's HOWEVER know I know why it was eliminated ( besides cost ) it got renamed under the 1-18's! It became the "inner water seal" and "outer water seal". Who needed two water seals ?? And the associated costs?? Well Frigidaire found out the hard way don't mess with Unimatic technology!

Inner - as I call it OIL Seal - 5433572 - this is even an old 1950's designation number "543"

Outer -as I call it WATER seal - 659706.

Just like Maytag didn't study Bendix front loaders before marketing the Neptune, it seems late 1960's engineers didn't study 1940's Frigidaire mechanisms and goofed !

Tsk tsk !

jetcone · Nov 24, 2014

Frigidaire Washer Analyzer

and video reveal something major is wrong!

There was a clank clanking going on in spin, the video reveals 2 problems with the spin wheel>

One, the clutch housing is loose on one of the 3 attaching points; causing it to slam into the spin wheel, see end of video.

It turns out one of the screws was snapped in half with the stub locked in the spin wheel. This causes noise, incorrect clutch engagement and incorrect brake engagement. I had to replace the spin wheel as a second screw snapped in half when I tried to remove it. I've not seen these screws so tight before.

The second issue is an aged 1 -18 never spin brakes at the end of spin - I HATE THAT !

I have always tried adjusting the brake for wear but going back to Doctrine this time it finally sunk in and you can see this in the video. Doctrine states when spin ends the tub is coasting, the spin wheel is free wheeling. In order for the brake to grab there must be a drag on the spin wheel that will cause it to rise up against the brake plate and engage the brake.
The source of drag was designed to be the carmel spin roller which is between the motor driver and spin wheel. It should always be in light contact with the spin wheel. This will create the drag necessary to engage the braking mechanism. But as you can see in the video as soon as the motor shuts off the roller stops dead ! It should be dragging, free wheeling with the spin wheel- but its not. That means it is worn down to the point there is no light contact at neutral between the roller and spin wheel. No contact = no drag, no drag = no braking!

A new roller is needed, so we'll see if that will solve the problem of "lFb" "lackadaisical Frigidaire braking" !

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHEtzgz5W4

ovrphil · Nov 24, 2014

What caused the screws to snap, were they torqued beyond specs? Great instructional thread...even if I'm at the bottom of the pile of experience. It's a good video.

hooverwheelaway · Nov 24, 2014

Jon, this thread is fascinating! You're such a Fountain of 1-18 knowledge! Keep it coming!

hippiedoll · Nov 24, 2014

BEEEEEAAAAUTIFUL!!!

what a shiney & brand new looking frigidaire 1-18.
and that is so cool that you can use that checker thing to see how the frigidaire spins and agitates at the different speeds. and all that with just a turn of that little knob!!! awesome.

can't wait until you get this poppy beauty up & running!!!
thanks for the GREAT pictures...

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

)

jetcone · Nov 25, 2014

Thank you Hippie Doll

and thank you Fred. Glad to hook a vaccumboy on at least ONE washer LOL !

Phil on the spin wheel screws I think they were torqued too tight to begin with. These screws come with lock washers so there is no need to consider torquing them. Just turning one my screwdriver snapped the head off and there was no sign of corrosion anywhere near the spin wheel. So that's what makes me think there was a big worker-boss fight that day on the plant floor; and the worker CRANKED upped the screw gun to mega-screw setting so all those machines that day got over torqued LOL!

philr · Nov 25, 2014

I haven't played with my new 1-18 washers yet! That's a very interesting thread as I didn't do much on the one I already had and I'm learning here!

One thing I noticed about the tub brake on my 1-18 is that it doesn't work the first time after the machine had been sitting for a while but after a few uses, it starts to work fine again!

ovrphil · Nov 25, 2014

Big Worker Boss

LOL! Jon, LOL!

thank you for guiding me into that one.

jetcone · Nov 26, 2014

your

welcome Phil , glad I could help.

Well the sound deadening came yesterday, but its high holy days so no work until this weekend.

Enjoy your turkey everyone!

Dr. Frigidiare

ovrphil · Nov 26, 2014

Jon - I'm sure it's going to be jaw-dropping quiet..Happy Thanksgiving to you and all....

Phil

philr · Nov 27, 2014

Jon, I used my 1-18 yesterday and made a small video of it. I should replace the agitate roller that's noisy during the spin. I really like this machine. Note that the tub brake didn't work at all when I got it and I never fixed it but now it works everytime!

jetcone · Nov 29, 2014

yeah

I'm thinking of putting on another roller there too.

This spin brake is a twitchy thing i find ill be interested to see how long yours works Phil

Its a northEAST race now for the best 1-18 out of the auction!!!

lamont · Nov 29, 2014

Go to your local Homedepot....

And buy a roll of "Ice and water shield". You'll find it in the Roofing isle. Same exact stuff as "Dynamat/SoundKiller/Any number of brand names" and a third of the cost.

Link below is 200 sq/ft for 89.99

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GAF-Stor...-Film-Surfaced-Leak-Barrier-0915000/100083515

jetcone · Nov 30, 2014

great tip!

I'll definitely check that out Aaron !

Thanks

jeff_adelphi · Dec 1, 2014

Outer water bellows-

New part # 5300638860, may still be available, I got several of them a while back.

jetcone · Dec 2, 2014

JEFF THANK YOU

for that part number update, it seems Frigidaire was always updating part numbers !!

jetcone · Dec 2, 2014

Today

I changed out the spin roller for a new one and found a surprise. Its always good to completely go over a machine even if it looks in fine condition. I found the spin to be particularly noisy on this machine and as you remember I changed out a broken spin wheel but still did not have braking at cycle's end.

Frigidaire updated the rollers on the 1-18 in the later 70's , they added swipers to the roller cages to help keep the surface clean and prolong the roundness of the rollers. Lumping makes the machine very noisy and inefficient.

Here you can see the difference between the original and new roller:

[this post was last edited: 12/2/2014-18:00]

jetcone · Dec 2, 2014

I decided before install

to check the new dimension against the old because the old roller did not "drag" enough to engage the brake mechanism.

I found the old roller had worn down by a half millimeter see the gauge reading: old roller 56.5 new 57 mm.

This is not a lot but if it doesn't drag it doesn't brake.

However that said I discovered a defect upon removal of the old roller.

jetcone · Dec 2, 2014

The defect

It seems damage was done to the original roller:

It could be one of two things. 1 ) with the counter weight of the spin wheel constantly flapping against the spin wheel that caused a banging which I could hear on first inspection , that banging would be transferred to the roller like a hammer strike through metal.

OR

2- Again we have the boss / worker fight that day at the factory. The bolt holding the roller was overtorqued - again ! If you over torque these you can break the bakelite bearing holder on them or even cause them to lock up and not be able to turn. Look at #4 just under my finger you can see the bronze bearing exposed which it shouldn't be visible, it should look like the lower newer roller encased in black bakelite. When the bakelite is broken like that the roller can float way out of line and not maintain proper contact at any time in the cycle.

In any event you should learn how to feel the correct "tight" when installing rollers in a 1-18.

What you want is a secure metal to metal contact of the roller cage and the mechanism you bolt too. But you don't want to squish the cage down onto the roller bearing as that will inhibit the floating motion of the roller which is key to this whole design.

That is why BLUE loctite is ALWAYS installed in the bolts that hold the Rollers. New loctite everytime !!

Its the Locktite that ends up holding the roller bolt in place and leaves enough wiggle for the roller to move around in its cage.

This original roller was too tight or hit too many times as the bakelite was shattered. That allows the roller to float wayyyyyyyyy out of range in the cage so there never would be braking after spin.

We'll see if this new roller can restore that braking. 1-18 braking is elusive on an old machine, believe me. Once you take apart a 1-18 its luck to get that back.

Lets see how accurate DOCTRINE is for these machines. Testing follow. Loctite takes 24 hours to set.

And I can tell you "Assembly-Boy" installed the loctite in the wrong portion of this bolt. It never contacted the threads in the mechanism he applied it to high on the bolt - too close to the head of the bolt!!

-Damn "Assembly-Boy" !!

[this post was last edited: 12/2/2014-18:10]

philr · Dec 2, 2014

Interesting!

Jon, did you get my email in response to yours about the part numbers?

nmassman44 · Dec 2, 2014

I was just thinking ....you might want to replace that drive belt while your there...nothing worse than an old belt snapping in these machines...it isn't the easiest to replace since one has to undo all the hoses for the pump. When I replced the belt in my WC-6 , it wasn't a quick 2 minute job that's for sure!

combo52 · Dec 2, 2014

Great Restoration Jon

But I have always said and as you have shown us, GM Frigidaire Roller-matic Washers, Agiatetub Skinny-Minis, 1970s Frigidaire Ice-Makers and 1-18 Dryers were all very interesting appliances that required careful assembly.

WCI diffidently made a good decision when they chose not to try continue building GM FD appliances.

To make these appliances actually function at all it took the engineering talent and skill of General Motors, WCI would have never been able to make a 1-18 work, LOL.

John L.

jetcone · Dec 3, 2014

WELL John

truer words never spoken: GM was trying out the rollermatic transmission in the washers for a future car tranmission. They had a patent on an roller tranmission for cars, and if I remember correctly the Chevy Citation was earmarked for this transmission but it never made it into production. So GM was experimenting a lot with its engineers.

Phil and I have compiled a list of rollers for these machines from 1964-1979. Its a pretty confusing list and represents a lot of re-engineering but it will serve as a guide for you roller-shoppers out there when searching for NOS parts or good used parts.

Frigidaire Rollers

 

Laundry Center 24”

6599264 & 633954 & 1134066 spin roller

 

1964-65 Frigidaire Impact Clutch

 

631407 or 7533505 Spin Roller

 

7533507 Agitate Roller

 

6597633 kit for both rollers

 

1965 Washer spring mount (replaced by the 7533505 and 7533507 as shown above)

 

7523975 agitate

 

7523977 spin both are early spring mount not retractable

 

1965-1966 Impact Clutch 1010 Rapidry models (or 4 speed)

 

7527457 spin

 

7523975 & 7533507 agitate

 

7534928 solenoid activated 

 

1966-1967-1968-1969-1970 Sure Spin Clutch (all except 1010 speed models)

 

 7533507 Agitate 

 

 6597843 Roller kit for WAK WA2K WAL WA2L (includes 7534742 roller)

 

 6597633 kit (includes 7533505 & 7533507 rollers) All other "K" and "L” models

 

 631637 Roller "N" models (spin speed reduced in 1968 non-rapidry models)

 

 

 

 

 

1967-1968-1969-1970 Sure Spin Clutch 1010 Rapidry models (3 or 4 speed). 

 

7533507 agitate 

 

7534928 Spin (solenoid actuated)

 

7527457 Spin (water pump)

 

1967-1968-1969-1970 Variable speed models

 

7534928 solenoid 1010 spin roller

 

7533507 agitate

 

 

S & T All 1-18 models

 

634723 agitate

 

1132205 ( early) 1133133 ( swiping roller ) spin

 

1-18 OUTER WATER BELLOWS 5300638860 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[this post was last edited: 12/3/2014-06:38]

jetcone · Dec 3, 2014

Mike

I've inspected the belt and it looks absolutely mint to me so I'm gonna take a chance on it going forwards.

It should be ready for the wash in when PAUL & PHIL get their butts down here !!!

jetcone · Dec 5, 2014

Jetcone's

Qui-A-Pak II systems gets installed.

wiskybill · Dec 5, 2014

Luv it Jon...

It's staring to look like a booster rocket for
the next space mission!

Hope this makes a noticeable difference. Did you take a decibel
reading before to compare with the results after?

jetcone · Dec 5, 2014

Bill

What a cool analogy Thank YOU ! I just watched Nova's piece on Neil A Armstrong last nite brought back a wave of memories and emotions. I highly recommend it.

I don't have a sound meter but its quiet, In testing very quiet so far without the cabinet installed. Videos to follow - stay tuned to this channel.

Poppy just passed her water test, the bottom half is now completed. You can see me installing the hoses with the "approved" Coldspot pliers ! Testing Standards must be upheld!

ovrphil · Dec 5, 2014

Qui-a-Pak II is so thin and easy to apply. I have a dumb question, why is the inside of the casing given a spot treatment of insulation, in patches vs. covering the entire inside? I know you covered the outside of the tub, so less is needed?

Reply #2 reminded me a satellite/rocket prep area photo, seen many times before in print. And then it reminded me that washing in space is here or will be soon enough, as NASA picked UMPQUA (Research Co.) has one ready(http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/...s-nasa-plans-introduce-washing-machine-space/)

It's amazing how your washer isn't so much smaller than Carpenter's rocket escape area(1962).

philr · Dec 5, 2014

Just like Phil,
I was wondering why not covering the entire cabinet with insulation or the whole outer tub?! I imagine that small patches are enough to dampen the vibration in the cabinet?

Poppy comes to Boston

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