Problem with Kenmore 80

[stan]

Machine is about 19 years old.
Pic shows model #
On occasion, I've have found wet cloths after machine has completed all cycles.
At first thought I had a clutch problem as machine pumps and drains well.
Upon closer observation I notice that when machine starts to spin (on either first spin or second) it will stop for no reason, any where 1 to 10 seconds then resume? Not every time but..
Stood over it one day, and noticed that on its last spin the pump engaged and pumped out water, timer keept ticking, and pointer moved to "spin" but didn't.. Timer ticked along..pump kept pumping, pointer keept moving and finally ended. But never did it's final spin?
I'm able to reset to spin and get it to, but..
I'm "assuming" I need to replace timer, but thought I'd check here first.
Thank guys
P.S lid switch was by passed long ago

 

[repairguy]

Your washer was manufactured in the 52nd week of 2002. The pause is normal and the washer needs it to engage spin. Before this pause the washer is supposed to drain only, no spin. When it pauses the gearcase then starts the spin. Your problem is the neutral drain assembly in the gearcase is no longer working if it is draining and spinning at the same time. When it goes for the final spin that pause has to come from the timer so the gearcase will engage spin. If there is no pause, the timer is faulty. If it pauses but does not start spinning the neutral drain assembly will have to be replaced. This involves removing and disassembling the gearcase or the gearcase can be replaced as a whole.

 

[stan]

Thanks for the reply

"Pause" Maybe was a bad choice of words on my part..
The washer will start to spin, and pump, but stops and dose nothing for for 1 to 10 seconds then resumes spin and pump. This happens occasionally.
Sometimes (not everytime) on the last spin, it will sometimes just never spin, unless I reset the timer, then it will.
If my neutral drain assembly is bad, would I still be able to reset timer, and get it to spin?

 

[repairguy]

Yes you can reset the timer and it will spin even with a faulty neutral drain. The purpose of the neutral drain is to empty the tub before the machine starts to spin. So it should drain first with no spin, timer pause, and when the timer resumes power to the motor it should spin and the pump is also working at the same time. Many of these washers will operate for years with the neutral drain not working. In this case it immediately starts spinning while draining, then the timer pause and it continues spinning with the pump operating. Most folks don’t even realize it’s not working correctly. To diagnose your issue observe the pump out. There has to be a pause in the timer after the tub has drained. If there is no pause the timer is faulty. If it pauses then resumes without spinning the problem is the neutral drain. It is entirely possible that both the timer and neutral drain are bad. The washer should not spin while the tub is being emptied. Sorry for the long story.

 

[stan]

I know that

My neutral drain is worn, and has been for a few years.. Sometimes it works, Somtimes it doesn't. However when it doesn't.. It will complete the wash or rinse then go into pumping and spinning at the same time. Hard on the clutch, and I've replaced the clutch once before...
I've avoided the job of replacing the neutral drain assembly cuz it seems like a mess. This new problem is odd to me.. In that it won't spin at all (on last spin) unless I reset?

 

[stan]

It's possessed LOL

Have a small load going now, and I'm watching it. It went through the wash cycle fine, then filled and rinsed, paused then drained like it should (neutral drain worked) paused, but then it spray rinsed before it started spinning? I pushed the dial then pulled it back out and it's started spinning normall ?

 

[repairguy]

once you know for sure whether or not it’s pausing after every pumpout you’ll know where the problem lies.

 

[DADoES]

 
Could a couple worn/broken "teeth" on the spin gear randomly get positioned to not engage ... thus sometimes it spins, sometimes not?  It passes over the bad spot once it gets going?

The neutral drain repair kit includes a new spin gear.

 

[shanenc14]

I just replaced the neutral drain pack in my machine, and there were times that mine did the same thing. Pump out water, pause, and pump again until the final spin was over, but the tub would never spin, only pump... Sure sounds like neutral drain pack.

 

[stan]

Last load

Filled, washed, paused, then neutral drain did not kick in so it did a rinse spin. Stoped paused then filled with rinse water, agitated, stoped and paused, then repeated (no neutral drain)
Spun good and completed. Don't know what it will do next time..
But it is pausing!

 

[stan]

OH

But it I see on the first spin, that it paused first, (wash water) went into spin, but stoped for 5 seconds then resumed ?

 

[DADoES]

 
Point of information:  Regards to stops or pauses spin for x seconds then resumes ... does that mean the motor shuts off, or the basket stops spinning but the motor is still running?

 

[shanenc14]

If neutral drain is functioning correctly your typical cycle should be as follows:

- Fill (Wash)
- Agitate (Wash)
- Pause
- Drain
- Pause
- Spin
- Fill (Rinse)
- Agitate (Rinse)
- Pause
- Drain
- Pause
- Final Spin w/ 2 spray rinses

If your machine is pausing when it's supposed to, then it's doubtful that there's anything wrong with your timer, and the root cause is most likely the neutral drain pack in the transmission. Check out these YouTube videos for neutral drain pack replacement instructions.

It's a bit messy, but a fairly easy repair, and MUCH cheaper than buying a new or refurbished transmission.

There are others here that are much more knowledgeable than me, and I'm sure they'll give you additional information.

 

[combo52]

Spinning issues With A WP DD Washer

Hi Stan, if you can always get it to spin by resetting the timer to another final spin, you have a bad timer.

 

I does sound like the transmission is worn but they usually keep going till they get very noisy, if the washer is starting to make a rasping sound when it is spinning at full speed the spin gear is wearing out.

 

Transmission repairs are a bit messy, if you want to avoid the mess just buy a new transmission, it is still cheaper than a new washer.

 

John L.

 

[repairguy]

When the washer pauses all function should cease(motor stops running) then resume afterward. Sounds like this is happening on yours from your observation so problem is in the gearcase.

 

[stan]

Glen

The machine may start to spin and make one to three revaluations, then stop..no sound at all for a few seconds..like someone pulled the plug, then kick back on and resume spin.
@ John.. No rasping sound on spin yet. The neutral drain has worked intermitantly for a few years now. When not working, I just get two spins for one. I was able to live with that..
This stoping and starting, and no spinning is a new issue.
I should vidieo it so y'all can see.

 

[pierreandreply4]

did you check if it was not a problem with the timer motor had a 1993 inglis superb II washer that had 2 repairs during its life use first one a new motor second was a timer motor replacement and do you washer do that on other cycles? if it do not do that on other cycles then its a timer motor problem

 

[stan]

Hi Pierre

I haven't checked, but I will now.
Thanks

 

[pierreandreply4]

stan

stan hope you will find the source of your washer problem and be able to repair it and wanted to wish you good luck

 

[stan]

Latest observation

I decided to use the perm press cycle as suggested.. Couldn't tell the difference between this and reg cycle. However I notice that the pointer on the dial does not coincide with with the function.
The pic was taken after washer finished and stoped. If I turn the pointer where it points to "off" and pull knob, the machine goes into agitation! (No water) and is also fast agitation, regardless of where to agitation speed selector is moved to?
I'm going to get a new neutral drain assembly..(I've procrastinated taking that job on) but this has to be a twisted timer too?
Right?

 

[pierreandreply4]

stan

hello stan first I went to wish you luck on the repair and maybe you should replace at the same time the timer and check at the same time the motor just my toughs here

 

[DADoES]

 
Stan,

The dry-agitate is not a malfunction.  Notice the little flag in the Off section.  No other Off section on your timer has it.  Some direct-drive timers have a dry-agitate increment in an Off section as a diagnostic tool (although they're not all marked for it on the cycle legend).  Apparently that's the case on yours.

Many timers that don't have dry-agitate in an Off range have it instead at the last 2 mins of wash agitation on the Regular/Normal cycle.

The dry-agitate increment is a diagnostic tool to test neutral drain without having to fill the tub for agitation.  The neutral drain mechanism requires agitation (after a spin) to reset for the next neutral drain.  Set the timer at the dry-agitate, let it run for minute (should be enough, neutral drain reset should take only about 10 seconds of agitation but longer time may be needed if 1) the mechanism is worn or 2) the transmission oil is thickened from cold or age).  Stop the machine, turn the timer to spin and start it.  Neutral drain should occur.  Stop and restart again, neutral drain lock should release and spin occurs.[this post was last edited: 2/10/2019-14:44]

 

[combo52]

Dry Agitate position

Was also the suds-return position for the optional Suds-Saver accessory that WP-KM sold for DD washers, however by the time your machine was built WP had given up on the add-on SS accessory  due to problems with it.

 

John L.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

This symptom may be similar:

My Kenmore currently made around that time or likely years before has that same problem, and it seems anytime that the Speed is set for Fast Spin...

 

The clothes are around the agitator, in a completely wet and massive heap, while a groaning noise and small trickle of water attempt to be drained out...

 

I warn my wife if she ever washes the clothes (though she never does) in that speed combination never to put all that wetness right into the dryer, just to do as the solution to this is, open the lid and close it as the spin begins, or simply, as I had done since the beginning of this problem, to turn the timer dial back to the spin or to the spin on the next cycle (permanent press) our seeing as this machine has Extra Rinse for both Reg. and P.P. just use either one there...

 

 

 

-- Dave

 

[stan]

Glen

Thank you for pointing that out! For as long as Ive had this machine I've never noticed that.. hardly have ever used that cycle either.
So what say you? Timer, or neutral drain?

 

[stan]

Hi guys

Have ordered neutral drain assembly, along with the Whirlpool gear oil.
Decided to start there.. as its needed that repair for a while. I also ordered a six pad clutch..as long as the old one has to come off anyway..
Im curious as to why the neutral drain plate has to be replaced?
Since the new kit comes with a new plate, I'll replace it, and I can see why a new spin gear is included in the kit..because it's plastic, but what could go wrong with the metal plate?
I'm still suspicious of the timer, but thought I'd do the more complex repair first.

 

[stan]

So my parts are in!

But while I was waiting, I decided to do some preliminary work on the machine.
I wanted to removed inner tub in order to scrub it up and clean the outter tub, as well as the fill flume, under the tub ring, under the agitator fins ect
Two things I noticed in the included pics, was rust in the center of the outter tub, and a small pile of black dust under the center of machine. The black dust felt.. rubbery.
Could the tub seal be disintegrating? I observed the tub seal from the top, but didn't see or feel anything unusual.
Is the rust normal for its age, or has water gotten somewhere is shouldn't have.
Have never found water on the floor in the years I've had it.
Thoughts

 

[combo52]

Robert dust under washer

It’s just wear from the drive coupling inspect the drive coupling when you take it apart you might want to replace it.

Rust on basket is about normal for a machine at that age.

 

[stan]

Thanks John

I did order a coupler along with other parts..figured on replacing while I'm there. Glad to know it's not a tub seal.and rust is normal

 

[stan]

After

I crack open the tranny and replace drain kit, reseal and close, is it advisable to leave trany upright for 24 hours before tipping/reinstalling and using.
Dont want a oil leak, and sealent Pak says wait to dry 24 hours.