Question for the vintage Norge macherim-----

[gyrafoam]

I have two solid-tub machines. One is (what appears to be) an early "Timeline" (BOL) "Diaper-Washer" Model# AW-425, Serial# 112808.

The other one is a MOL (2-speed) model that appears to be a mid-60's.
Model# 221-370-0, Serial# W-970075.

Anyone know the years they were built?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Model WA425 first appears in 1953 and last appears in the 1956 washer lineup.

 

Model 221-370 does not appear in the Appliance Blue Book, but model 221-380 does appear for 1962 as a 2 speed, 3 temperature machine. 221-370 could have been a drop in model.

 

[brucelucenta]

How about pictures of both? I rather like Norge machines of that vintage.

 

[gyrafoam]

Thanks,Tom

For some reason I have always assumed the Timeline to be a '54.
I also felt the sixties model has a 65ish looking console, so it's a surprise to me it is early sixties.

It is interesting to use these machines. The Sixties model is the most interesting to me.
Strangely, the older Fifties Agitator is better at rolling over the clothes than the Burpalator in the Sixties model. The Burpalator has somewhat taller fins which when combined with the very wide skirt make for a huge agitator in an 8lb tub! I think the shorter fins are better. Maybe the height of the fins effects the water pressure on the shirt and helps pump the water up to the filter? In any event, any load much over 8lbs and the Burpalator stops rolling the clothes and starts thrashing them! I'm not saying it doesn't clean them, however,the thrashing is brutal. Perhaps this is why they tried using a "Swiss-Cheese" Burpalator for a while, thinking the holes in the fins allowed water to move through the fabrics better? But, that would trash my theory about water pressure wouldn't it? Reminds me of the old Frigidaire ads where they mentioned how it did not pull,jerk,thrash the clothes back and forth! Clearly they were targeting Norge!

The dinky little filter is nothing more than a gimmick. Maybe if you washed a German Shepherd or a Setter in one you might get some fur, but lint, not! Like many other gimmick filters I don't even bother to use it.

There are two lengthy spray rinses near the beginning of each spin cycle. They are very effective, as the water sprays onto the whirling fins of the agitator and creates a spray over all the clothes.
The lengthy Overflow Rinse is also very effective and lasts about FIVE minutes (my 1963 Frigidaire CI also has a great, long Overflow Rinse). My best Rinsers and my choice when using Clorox!

The (600rpm) spin is only so-so. The clothes come out feeling too heavy and damp. The same load in my solid tub SQ or my '64 Maytag Highlander feels much dryer and lighter. But, it tries, spinning a good 6 minutes or so!

Bruce-
Peteski is kind enough to post some photos for me, so look for those to drop into the thread late tonight.[this post was last edited: 10/10/2016-14:06]

 

[peteski50]

Norge!

I will attempt to display this beautiful early 60's Norge!!

 

[peteski50]

Norge!

1950's timeline

 

[gyrafoam]

Thanks Peter, for posting those images.

On the Sixties machine, the agitator in photo 5 is the one from this machine (sans dinky filter parts).
The agitator in photo 6 is a Swiss-Cheese Burpalator. I heard a Norge salesman refer to this type of agitator years ago and it stuck with me. It will fit in this Sixties machine, however I don't have a dinky filter pan for it.

 

[mickeyd]

Hi Stevie

Never knew what was so reminiscent about those holes; indeed, Swiss cheese it is. Aptly named. Also was it you who coined it the "Noge" or was it Norgeman?

How we loves our "Noges." You know Steve, with that 4 wide paddle agi, The Spanker I call it, you need a high water level to get amazing rollover and subtle yanking.
They work marvelously in the conventionals, aka, Wringers.

Got a wild Norge surprise coming for Thanksgiving.

 

[gyrafoam]

Mikey----

Pronouncing Norge with a Long "O" sound (and not pronouncing the "r" at all) was how the southern Black's in the day said it.
They also pronounced Kenmore as "Kenmo" with a long "O". They still do.

A full tub of water makes little difference in my machine. The Overflow Rinse manages to throw-out water from the top row of holes, however, if there is one ounce more than an 8lb load it ain't going to roll 'em over! Bulk also has a lot to do with it. I put three pair of slacks, and a knit cotton Izod shirt in a load this morning and it hardly rolled for the whole cycle! Oh, those clothes were clean though! The electric version of pounding the clothes on a rock. I put the goofy filter-pan thingy on just to see and of course, not a thread was to be found in it at the end of the cycle.

I notice that Burpalator in your manual machine has plenty of tub to move things around in. The automatic has a considerably smaller tub if the agitator shown is the same size for both! Or has the agitator been scaled-down like Kenmore did for their manual machines?

The pump design is great. By the time the tub gets up to spin-speed the pump is beginning to cavitate.(Love that sound. Like a sound track to a good butch porn film.) The only other machines I know of that have pumps that powerful from this era are SQ, Maytag, and Whirly/Kenmore.

 

[mickeyd]

Yes, but if you don't use a full water level, they thrash just like the automatics do, but are just as clean as you say. Somehow we're conditioned to WANT turnover, and simply find it more convincing, not to mention, comforting. Funny. or as Butthead would say, KOOOL.

I'll post a close up and measurements of the Spanker tomorrow. I believe it is identical to the mid-60's automatic offering.

Sweet Dreams!

 

[tomturbomatic]

The 1962 washer is the match to our first Noge dryer, also from around 62.

The washers were only rated at an 8 pound capacity.

 

[lesto]

Thanks for the great photos. I notice on the 62 that you get a cold rinse with a hit wash but a warm rinse with a warm wash. Very interesting. When I was a child a neighbor of ours had a similar machine to the 82. Not sure the exact year but the timer dial was very similar to this except the short cycle had orangey-red letters instead of the blueish on yours and it had a third speed setting for fast wash and slow spin.

 

[washerlover]

The agitator in photo #3 is identical to the one in my grandma's '62 Wards Signature machine. Not the greatest turnover, but it definitely moves things around. Is that the agitator that came with your machine? Very nice and I'm so jealous!! Have fun and enjoy all that burpalation!

 

[tomturbomatic]

The Hot/Cold temperature setting was common on Noge washers for a long time.

 

[gyrafoam]

The chicken or the egg--------

Which Burpalator came first? I seem to recall the Swiss-Cheese fins from the late fifties.

In reply4 photos 2,3 and 5 show the agitator that comes with the sixties machine, although the Swiss-Cheese one will also fit it. I don't have a filter-pan for the Swiss -Cheese one but I don't care, I wouldn't use the thing anyway. Besides the Swiss-Cheese agitator discharges the burped water vertically whereas the other one discharges horizontally.

 

[mickeyd]

Hi Stevie--Sorry for the delay. BOWELS, hahaha

" Ah ka ka ka ka--well, blow me down!" Popeye the Sailor . I'm Popeye the sailor man, I'm Popeye the Sayyyylor Man.... I lie to.... Sorry, Never mind.

The spanker is 12 &1/2 high, 16 in diameter
, and the paddle it highest point is just under 4.

 

[mickeyd]

Close-up of the Swiss cheese

A unique and very wonderful agitator, especially at a higher torque as while operating inside a a Speed Queen. Would you like a short vid of that?

 

[jimmler]

Spooky wringer

Mickeyd,

I don't know why, but that pic of your Norge wringer on the deck, looks like it could come after someone.....just like the slot machine on "The Fever" Twilight Zone episode.

 

[lesto]

Do you by any chance have a video of the machine agitating? I'd love to see a look at in in operation.

 

[brucelucenta]

The agitators were first non lint filter until about 1959. From 1959 till the early 60's there was the agitator with the swiss cheese holes in the fins and the filter basket much like a GE or much later large capacity Norge machines. The one in the picture had a lint filter with a sleeve that fit over the center of the agitator and then allowed the filter water to pump up to the top and into a small lint basket attached to the sleeve. Those were the last type of agitator made for the solid tub machines, to my knowledge. There were many machines like those here in Tulsa, Oklahoma that were rebadged as Tempmaster, sold by Otasco and Signature, sold by Montgomery Wards. They washed quite well, but then the agitator base covered nearly the entire bottom of the tub. They couldn't help but move the clothes.

 

[gyrafoam]

Thanks Bruce------

helps me put a time-span on the agitator with the holes in the fins. It must not have been a design they liked very much to change it in so short a period of time. It has slightly taller fins, slightly shorter in length than the plain version which nearly guarantees less roll-over and more thrashing!

I think it is also interesting that Norge was still using an 8lb tub machine as late as the early to mid-sixties. No wonder they came out with the (then) largest tub machine! They must have see a large part of their market-share disappear by 1962 because that was the year Frigidaire dropped-in a larger tub. By then GE, Kenmore/Whirlpool,etc. had already moved to at least a 10lb tub.

When the tub was loaded just right, they had good roll-over and the "Tidal-Wave" action of the agitator was VERY strong. I am sure any load that did roll-over during agitation got exceptionally clean!
Bulk, as usual is a problem. I use standard-size bath towels, however, they have a high thread count and are pretty bulky. Three of them is the maximum limit for the sixties Norge. Even at that there is only minimum roll-over.
Two towels, two hand-towels and a couple of wash cloths are a better load for it.

Summertime clothing such as T-shirts, shorts and lighter fabrics do pretty good as well. One sock too many, however, and the roll-over stops and the thrashing begins.Unfortunately, the thrashing action tends to splash water overboard and perpetuates the thrashing even more! I am convinced 10 minutes of violent thrashing also gets the clothes clean in these machines, at a price of some fabric damage. It is too vigorous not to!

In any event, these old Norges are good for drama!

Les----i'll work on getting you some action shots.
[this post was last edited: 10/14/2016-14:22]

 

[brucelucenta]

Yes, my mother was the worlds worst at overloading a washing machine. I recall being a small child and seeing the Norge washer we had just pulling the mass of clothes back and forth as it washed. There was seldom any turn over due to how full it usually was, but it got things clean. It couldn't help but do that since almost the entire bottom of the tub was agitator! In that sense, they were a little like Kelvinator washers. A small tub and a big agitator that could not help but really move the clothes around. Only difference in the two was that the Norge didn't tangle the clothes badly like the Kelvinator did. But the gold crown for tangling goes to Frigidaire washers of that era. I have seen a load of diapers from one of those machines that was literally tied in knots! In fact, one of Whirlpool's ads back then played on that. They advertised that their machine would UN tie knots in clothes! We know who that was aimed at!!!

 

[gyrafoam]

I dunno Bruce-----

the old slant-front Westinghouse cement mixers could really make a rope of things too!

My best childhood memories of the Norge's were that great over-flow rinse, and the dramatic throw-out when the tub went into spin. Typically they went from Zero to Full Speed in about 15 Seconds! My sixties machine certainly does. And the pumps have tremendous strength. Like an old Maytag or Whirly/Kenmo. Oh, and the agitation---that long, slow, stroke. I'm shvitzing just thinking about it.

I don't think you could overload one of the old Norges because that transmission must have been built for a crane! No amount of clothes seems to put the slightest bit of strain on it. One gets the impression that it would wash a tub full of concrete blocks--- with ease---- were it not for the plastic agitator!
I don't know what the "weak-spot" was with these machines (I have been told to beware bad oil-seals!) but, I don't think it is the transmissions!

 

[turquoisedude]

Didn't Norge run a kind of 'Believe or Not' style ad claiming their washer could untangle a knotted sheet or something to that effect?

 

That's something I'd like to try this winter - pop a load of knotted sheets from the Westy or one of the Frigidaires into the Norge and see what happens!   So whoever said I'd be bored now that I'm retired??  LOL 

 

[tolivac]

In one of my old 1950's issues of Better Homes& Gardens magazines they have an ad for a Maytag washer-a picure of tangled clothes is shown-the title-With Maytag no more "Whipped Wash!"Figure which machines would be guilty of that?

 

[brucelucenta]

There were actually several weak spots on Norge washers. The earlier ones from the 50's had weak pumps that needed to be replaced frequently and the draw on the amperage when they went into spin was hard on timers and home fuses and circuit breakers. Eventually when they had quite a bit of use, the oil seal under the agitator drive block would go bad and pump transmission oil all over the clothes. That usually was the time people would replace them, if they lasted that long. When they were in good operating condition, they washed, rinsed and spun clothes out quite well. As far as tangling, I still say and truly believe that had it not been for Frigidaire's excessive tangling with the early machines they could have been a major contender or even the leader of the industry now. They already had the refrigerator market sewed up and "Frigidaire" is what many people referred to refrigerators as.

 

[vacerator]

Yes, that's true.

Borg Warner's strong business was automatic vehicle transmissions, and differentials. They wanted an appliance division like GM, and the others, but didn't invest in improving the product, but then didn't Norge washers have a lower price point?

 

[brucelucenta]

Seems that Norge might have been slightly lower in price, not really sure. I do know that in the 60's & 70's there were no lower priced washers and dryers on the market than Kenmore! It was shocking and amazing how cheaply they were sold! They were good machines too, which is how Sears cornered the market on appliances from then until now. Things have changed some since then, but many people still go to Sears for appliances and at one point in time, Kenmore was the brand most people had.

 

[gyrafoam]

Borg-Warner Transmissions----

were in all kinds of machinery back in the day. Including some great "muscle cars"! Must have used one out of an earth mover for the Norges.

I agree, they were somewhat less expensive than most other brands, but, not that much. I don't think Frigidaire had any less pot-metal in their machines than Norge did.

The REAL driver back in the Baby Boomer Days was Credit Terms!
That's why Sears did so well and any other store or utility company that would offer good credit terms did well also.
Almost all the major department and auto parts stores offered them as well.

In Atlanta, you could put your new Maytag on your Gas Bill at Atlanta Gaslight Company (each store had a large showroom right in the lobby so you could wander about them before paying your bill) and pay them just about anything you wanted ($1.00 mo.) each month until it got paid off! The Gaslight Company and Maytag both made a lot of friends. I think Georgia Power sold Westinghouse?

Chances are, if our neighbors got a GE machine it was from Rich's Dept. Store or a (re-branded) Hotpoint from J.C.Penny. One of the major Tire brands sold Philco-Bendix, maybe Goodyear?
The Economy Auto store sold Wizard, W.T.Grant sold Bradford.
Castleberry's in Chamblee sold GE and Hotpoint from a HUGE furniture and appliance store and country folk came from miles around NE Georgia for their credit terms. Same with Sharp's Appliances in Little Five Points. Frigidaire and Whirlpool.

Anyway, those easy credit terms made the appliance manufacturers a hell of a lot of loyal customers back in the 40's-70's.

 

[lesto]

Atlanta appliance stores

Steven, you know your Atlanta history well! Rich's was indeed the big GE dealer here so there were a lot of Filter Flos around when I was growing up in the 60's. They also sold a lot of Fedders air conditioners. Plus for a while they sold some machines with the AMC brand on them. I think the AMC washers were made by Easy.
A neighbor of ours was the manager of one of the Georgia Power retail stores. They sold Westinghouse, Maytag & Frigidaire appliances.
Western Auto stores sold Wizard wishes & dryers and Temp Master air conditioners.
Davison's Dept. Store, which later became Macy's, sold Frigidaire & Maytag appliances and Frigidaire & Carrier air conditioners.
Hotpoint were usually found at independent appliance stores.
When I was a kid you rarely ever saw a Speed Queen, Kelvinator, Norge or Philco in an Atlanta home.
GE, Kenmore, Maytag, and Frigidaire were the most common.