Question from a new member

[Pipsqueak]

After reading a few posts here, I get the sense that the members here are a lot more knowledgeable about washing machines/detergents and how to use them than a cloth diapering group I shall not name.

I need help with finding a detergent that will clean cloth diapers but yet rinse out well enough to not cause issues. (poop stains are no match for the sun so I'm not worried about stains). Tide just will not rinse for me. I can add 2 TBSP of powder to a wash cycle, add an extra rinse and spin, and a second spin to diapers straight from the diaper pail. Follow that with just adding hot water (no detergent yet) and let it agitate and the water is so white it looks like I'm washing the diapers in milk. On top of that, my cotton shirts are more uncomfortable than a scratchy wool sweater after using Tide before a small box of detergent is gone (5 person household) and no load was ever run using more than line 3 on the new scoop. I don't consider myself as having sensitive skin.

In addition to various Tide formulas, all with negative results, I have tried Foca and that was a suds disaster, Arm and Hammer in a few formulas with mostly negative results (ammonia stink after 2nd wash with the liquid), and soap nuts - worked great on my single layer flats but not so great on multi layer diapers - hence my search for a new detergent. If the trouble is likely from one or more detergent ingredients, what should I avoid?

I have a Kenmore 70's series washer and hard water (around 170-180ppm) I do a warm pre-wash cycle and wash diapers on hot and after the tub has filled I often flip the water temp selector to warm/warm. FWIW, the safety mechanism on my washer only prevents the machine from spinning when the lid is open so I am able to watch the machine agitate.

Also, this is the first washer I have owned that has the normal agitation speed and a faster than normal agitation speed. When should I use the faster speed?

 

[stan]

Hi Lisa

You'll get lots of advice here! And answers will be diverse.
Here's what I'd try..
The Kenmore 70 is a good washer. Hang on to it! It dose two rinse spins, so that good.
The problem may be your hard water. With water that hard you may have to use STPP with your detergent
(personally I wouldn't use Tide for cloth diapers, but that just me)
My recommendation would be that you pre soak, or per wash the diapers in Luke warm water only.
You can do this with your model machine. After spinning out the soak or per wash water, refill to needed water level with hot water, when agitation begins.. Add two or three Tbls of STPP and continue to agitate for a couple of minutes to allow the STPP to complex with the hard water, then add your detergent (with the STPP you may not need the normal dose of detergent) Set time for agitation. Then.. If you can.. be there for the warm rinse fill.. It would be a good idea to stand over the machine, and when it starts agitation for the rinse, add 1Tbsp of STPP to the rinse water. This just assists in flushing detergent out. Then do a second rinse without adding anything.
I say all this because your water is so hard.
Since were washing diapers, I would stay away from scented detergents, or ones with optical brighteners.
Ecos detergent, Seventh Generation, are ones that come to mind that are free of scents and O.Bs
Since you have such hard water, it may be a good idea.. before tying anything.. Clean the machine out by filling it to the top with hottest water possible and when it goes agitation pour in one full cup of Super Washing Soda, and allow the machine to go through a empty cycle. This should clean out any detergent/ fabric softener residue ect from the inner and outer tubs.
Just don't use the soda with baby's laundry, to harsh on fabric.
HTH

 

[tomturbomatic]

Welcome!

Good for you; choosing to use cloth!

Add enough STPP (Sodium Tripolyphosphate) to make the water slippery then add your detergent. You can buy this online from the Chemistry Store or from Amazon or eBay. You don't need food grade for laundry.

You water needs to be at least 140F and you should add bleach to get to the inner layers of those thick diapers with the ammonia smell to disinfect them. You might not like using chlorine bleach, but when you are washing diapers, you have to disinfect them.

 

[Pipsqueak]

Difference ?

what's the difference in function between Calgon water softener/conditioner and stpp?

I have put Calgon in a Downy ball to try adding it to the rinse before. Not sure if that's really effective though. With an active toddler, catching the start of the rinse cycle is rare.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Calgon used to be a phosphate blend called Hexametaphosphate. Now all of the phosphate is removed from Calgon so it is worthless for what you are trying to do with it. STPP is the more powerful phosphate for cleaning purposes that used to be used in laundry and dishwasher detergents. That is what you need to use to get rid of stubborn dirt and to keep mineral deposits from building up in your washer and dishwasher. STPP also improves the ability of a detergent to rinse out clear so if you use it in the wash with detergent, it is not as important to add it to the first rinse.

 

[Pipsqueak]

Very helpful

Thank you for the help.

I ran a hot wash cycle with the Tide washer cleaner (inherited it from my dad when he bought that instead of laundry detergent but hadn't used it before today). I filled the machine using the soak setting so I could check on my son while the machine filled. I didn't take it off of soak when I added the washer cleaner stuff. Looked at the water before moving it to the actual wash cycle. The water had a bunch of lint blobs floating in it. I grabbed the screen drain cover from my kitchen sink and skimmed out as much as I could, and now that has me wondering if there is a filter that I don't know about that needs to be cleaned as well or something else that needs addressing or if that's "normal" for cleaning the washer.

 

[stan]

Lisa

Be sure you get STPP. Not TSP from the hardware store. A lot of people get the two confused.
Toms got a good idea about adding STPP until the water feels slippery. That way you'll determine exactly how much STPP you'll need for each load at that water level.

 

[Pipsqueak]

Ok

STPP ordered and shipped but not yet received.

Remaining questions:

1. When I receive it, I can measure with tablespoons until the water is slippery, correct?

2. Is the lint I found in the water while running the washer cleaner normal or indicative of something needing attention?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Congratulations!

Probably normal. Running your machine with STPP will prevent mineral buildup which is what holds lint instead of letting it be flushed out with the water when the washer drains.

You might get tired of measuring STPP with a tablespoon with a top loader. Start with a quarter cup and see how that does. If the quarter cup makes the water very slippery, you can try using a little less next time until you determine what is best, but remember that how much you will need also depends on the type and degree of soil in the load. Everyone who has tried STPP has been very pleased with the results. You will not need washer cleaner anymore either.

Happy washing!

 

[kb0nes]

When I use STPP in my top loader I find 1 to 2 Tablespoons does what I need. But my water is softened. I dose incrementally by feel

 

[moreluvr]

about the bleach

I don't think you should add the Clorox until about 5-7 minutes before the end of the wash cycle. Otherwise it eats the fibers and kills any enzymes in the detergent. Just a FYI. I learned that after years of adding bleach at the beginning of my wash cycle and wondered why my towels were in such bad shape!

 

[Pipsqueak]

On the bleach topic

Within the cloth diapering world, there are two sets of instructions for bleaching diapers.

The first is to add 1/4-1/2 cup of bleach to the machine during the wash cycle and then do lots of rinses (until no bleach smell is present). This has been the set of instructions I have followed the times I have bleached diapers.

The other is to use 1 tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water in the bathtub or a bucket and then soak for 30 minutes, followed by a single wash cycle with Tide to line 5 and no extra rinses (2 full scoops of Tide to line 5 if using the free and gentle version) No extra rinsing is recommended as this group believes that 1. Detergent build-up is a myth, and 2. extra rinses cause the hard water minerals to build-up which causes ammonia/barnyard stink. The group promoting this set had a predecessor group that instructed people to sanitize their diapers in the dishwasher using dishwasher detergent.

THAT'S what sent me in search of a sane group for laundry help as I had exhausted the knowledge of the first group and I wasn't about to consider anything from the second group.

 

[dustin92]

When I was a baby (a while back...) My mom used Dreft baby detergent and Biz color safe bleach. For diapers though, I'd use the recommended amount of detergent, hot water, the longest wash cycle and the recommended amount of chlorine bleach. Maybe run a second rinse to be safe. Bleach isn't a horrible toxic substance, (used properly) and using it isn't going to make anyone sick. But leftover bacteria and fecal matter could. Take your pick. For Diapers I'd pass on the eco friendly green detergents and use something you know will get the job done.

 

[stan]

Lisa

See the "diverse" answers..LOL
I think your on the right track because you've cleaned out the washer.. That's a good first step. And we are all in agreement on that.
Secondly, you've been introduced to STPP, and you find it useful with your hard water.. Besides the better cleaning you get out of whatever detergent you use, you'll get better rinsing as well. (Important for diapers) We are all in agreement about that.
If you want to add a little STPP to the first rinse, because you know your going to do a second rinse.. You could pre dissolve some in a little hot water and add it to the fabric softener dispenser. (Provided you have one) That way you won't have to babysit the machine
(trying to catch it when it's going into rinse)
When it's done you'll have to turn the dial on your Kenmore to "Second Rinse"
HTH

 

[Pipsqueak]

I have a feeling

That I'm not done with cleaning my machine.

In addition to a toddler in diapers, I have a teenager that doesn't think clothes need washing. I took his rocks, er socks, and put them in the machine with some washing soda to soak. I restarted the soak cycle to add agitation and ended up with a couple inches of foam on top of the water. I have only washed a few loads since running the washer cleaning cycles yesterday. Unless he washed them with some massive amount of detergent last time he washed them (heaven knows when that was), there's still another source of detergent getting into my washer.

Is it possible for the machine to not drain properly/completely and put soapy water from a previous load into a current load? Or could the build-up need multiple washer cleanings to be removed?

 

[stan]

That's not uncommon

While most here are not fans of washing soda.. it works very well for breaking loose old detergent build up.
(Yes detergent dose build up, especially liquid detergent)
Instead of the Tide Washing Machine Cleaner, try the washing soda.
Fill the Machine with hot water (no clothes) wait for agitation to start, add a full cup of washing soda. In a couple of minutes..Don't be surprised if it looks like a load with detergent added.
I have a 80 series, and I've cleaned mine that way, and helped a friend clean hers with the same method.
Sometimes it requires taking the machine apart and cleaning it. Been there, and done that too. But let's start with something simple, and with the Washing soda you have in hand.
Once it's clean the STPP will help keep it that way.

 

[washdaddy]

Note on using the fabric softener dispenser--

Depending on your machines fabric softener dispenser if you put that STPP solution in it and have the machine set for two rinses the machine may not empty the dispenser until the last rinse cycle. If you use Stan's method of dosing the STPP keep that in mind.

If that is the case- (last rinse dispensing) just set the machine for one rinse, let the machine run it's cycle. When it's finished reset it to just do a rinse and spin so you have your two rinses.

Just thought I'd mention this cause on the Kenmore I use to own the dispenser only operated on the FINAL rinse if it was set for two.

 

[stan]

Rick

That a good point, but I don't think her machine works that way. Hers will release whatever's in the fabric softener on the first rinse, because second rinse has to be re set after a complete cycle.
Lisa can you show us a pic of the control panel of your machine to be sure?

 

[gus]

dear Lisa, my coin to your knowledge. In Uruguay many years ago when my children were born the neonatologist adviced to rinse first the debris of diapers and then put them into a buck full or cold water and borax (WHICH HERE is sodium borax) a chemical white powder you buy at the pharmacy. The same substance disolved is used in summer time to clean tha mother mamals before feeding the child to avoid infant diarrhea. You leave them the whole night until the other day you wash them in the machine with a neutral soap and if you can you hang them in the sun to dry. The sun whitens and disinfects. This applies to 100% cotton fabrics only. In the 80's diapers were made only in cotton, this DO works but with cotton. Good luck, Gus.