Question on Maytag A712 Washer

[colloquor]

I rebuilt a Maytag A712 washer in January, and posted photos and my work here in an earlier thread during the rebuild. Everyone was very helpful, and again, I send all of you a sincere "Thank You: for your assistance during the process.

Since the re-installation of the washer, a couple of glitches have occurred (not totally unexpected!): 1). A leaking, or more appropriately "weeping," center shaft seal on the brand new drain pump. I replaced the pump with a warranty replacement, and all is well. (NOTE: I guess I should have left in the old one, as it never leaked!), and 2). A problem that began only a couple of weeks ago, and I want to run my thoughts by you on this one... See new paragraph below.

When the water level reaches the preset level during the fill cycle, and if you don't start the wash/agitator cycle - and just watch the water level - every once every several seconds or so an air bubble raises to the surface. This denotes a leak to me, but no water is seen anywhere in the inner chassis, bottom, or on the floor. If, on the other hand, you let the washer begin its wash cycle, after four or five minutes, it begins to refill the tub, sometimes to a higher level than the original preset water level. NOTE: I installed a new air tube, new pressure switch, and new siphon break as well during the rebuild in January. I kept the old pressure switch, and re-installed it yesterday to see if it had an effect - no change, so it's not this part. This refill anomaly did NOT happen prior to the rebuild. It makes me wonder if the new siphon break is not working properly, and water in the tub is being siphoned out the drain hose.

Any thoughts on this? Otherwise, except for the new replacement drain pump leaking, all is working well with the A712. NOTE: I do remember one poster stating that the new replacement parts may not be the quality of the OEM parts - perhaps he was correct!

Thanks again,
Don

 

[macboy91si]

An Idea Rises to the Surface

My guess would be this is the release of air that gets trapped under the agitator during fill. I think there is even a small hole on the skirt that is supposed to release that air. Every agitator-based washer I have does this as this air escapes. If you wggle the agitator around with it full and not running this should cause more of the bubbles, but as for the disappearing water, the only place that could go logically is out the drain.

The strange thing here, when the machine starts, the pump runs in reverse, which would make the water going out the hose rather difficult since the pump should be forcing air back into the tub.

Hmmmm a puzzle...

Tim

 

[d-jones]

As Tim said, this is a puzzle. As I was reading your description I had the exact same thought he did regarding air trapped under the agitator skirt, but the fact that it stops agitating and resumes filling is a real head scratcher. The logical place to look here would seem to be the air tube or the fill level selector switch, but you say you've already looked there. At this point all I can think of would be to mix some dish soap and water together to form a thin leak check solution, then either brush it or spray it on the air tube and the air tube end where it connects to the fill level selector switch. If you have even the tiniest of leaks it will blow bubbles with the solution. The problem you're describing really does sound like a leaking air tube, but a leaking diaphragm in the selector switch will cause the same symptoms. As you already know, as the tub fills with water that water flows into the lower end of the air tube and pushes the air in the tube up against the diaphragm. As the tub fills the water in the tube rises correspondingly until the pressure on the diaphragm is high enough activate the switch. Once that happens the fill stops and the agitation begins. The only way the machine will interrupt the agitation and resume filling is if that pressure has bled off somehow thereby allowing that switch to open. The fact that it then fills to a higher level would seem to be further proof of this, so I think I'd continue to focus my efforts there for a bit longer.

 

One thing to keep in mind - after you initially fill the tub to the desired level, either take note of or mark the water level on the agitator barrel. For a water leak to open the contacts in the selector switch you'd have to loose enough to see it drop away from your mark on the barrel. But a loss of air pressure will trip that switch with no discernible drop in water level.

[this post was last edited: 3/20/2015-02:32]

 

[limitededition]

NO LEAK

AIR PRESSURE IS THE SAME ALL AROUND THE WASHER WATER WOULD RUN OUT AND BE REPLACED BY AIR ON TOP OF WATER, HENCE NO BUBBLES. WATER IS HEAVIER THAN AIR, SO THE BUBBLES YOU SEE ARE EITHER COMING FROM INSIDE TUB THAT WAS TRAPPED OR FROM YOUR WATER THAT HAS SMALL AMOUNTS OF AIR TRAPPED IN THE WATER ITSELF.

 

[colloquor]

Another test...

I just ran a test with no clothes in the washer, only water. I set the water level for large load, let it fill with cold water, and then marked the level with a pencil. I let it agitate for 4 minutes prior to lifting the lid and checking the water level. NO CHANGE in the water level, and interestingly, no bubbles coming up from the hole in the agitator skirt when observing it with the lid open and agitator stopped. The lid was up for approximately 3 minutes, and again, no change in the water level.

As soon as I put the lid down to continue agitating, the washer began to fill which would place the water level above the original fill line.

The fill level pressure switch is brand new, as is the air tube. I replaced both during the complete rebuild in January. Just for grins, I pulled out the new fill level pressure switch, and replaced it with the original one. NOTE: We never had this re-fill problem before the rebuild (which BTW was necessitated because of a bad orbital transmission). No change, the behavior is exactly the same, after several minutes of agitating, the agitator stops, and it begins to fill above the original preset water level. I kept many of the original parts, thus over the weekend, I will pull the washer out and replace the new replacement air tube with the old one and see what happens.

Thus, I think we can probably eliminate the fill level pressure switch (leaking diaphragm) as the cause, and look at the air tube. If changing the air tube doesn't correct the problem, I will be back to scratching my head again!

 

[combo52]

Hi, Its the new air-dome hose or the new tubing itself.

 

As I think I said before, Quality Control on replacement parts 20+ years after the fact is not close to the quality of the parts that  the appliance was originally built with. I have also found out the hard way not to replace parts that are not bad when restoring an appliance.

 

Instead I replace parts that are worn or parts that normally do wear out and cause problems, this is where experience in the appliance repair business is so important, because I can look at an appliance and based on model, age, usage it has received etc and give you a pretty good guess as to what should be replaced to keep it functioning reliably.

 

[colloquor]

New replacement part QC...

Combo52,

Yes, you did warn me of the new replacement parts questionable QC in January, and I took your recommendations seriously, except for some extraneous parts that did show some obvious wear and tear. However, I did keep all of the old parts removed during the rebuild, including the air tube. After experiencing this, I would strongly suggest everyone should be very cautious of replacing any part with new replacement parts, unless the OEM has failed.

Thanks again for your input.

Don