sudsmaster
Well-known member
Caveat Emptor
It never seems to change.
It never seems to change.
Questioning My Fantasies:
- Thread starter danemodsandy
- Start date
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i think people wouldn't care about the cost......people pay lots of money for things that are junk just BECAUSE they are expensive and they think they are getting quality because of price........in your scenario it would be true, they WOULD get quality
It would largely be a niche market. Research on interest in such products would be hugely inaccurate. What people may say on a survey isn't at all what they may do at the point of purchase.
An elderly friend (83 years old) of my grandmother had to buy a new washer a few days ago. She bought the cheapest ($299) toploader (Roper) she could find at the local furniture store.
RJ is shopping for a new fridge. I had forgotten about Whirlpool cutting back on warranty coverage, they no longer cover refrigerator sealed systems for 5 years. KitchenAid, however, extends parts-only coverage to 10 years. He's swayed toward that direction, but is waffling on whether warranty justifies KA's price premium over a "budget model" Whirly.
A few years ago when granny's Fedders window unit died, I opted for a "premium" Friedrich over going to Wal-Mart or Home Depot.
So .... it depends. I think a large number of people who buy expensive appliances (for upscale homes) don't do it because of true quality, but for perceived quality and "label prestige" for potential resale value. Seems like many people relocate frequently nowadays (and leave the appliances behind) so they'd never get the benefit of longevity from actual use of the items.
An elderly friend (83 years old) of my grandmother had to buy a new washer a few days ago. She bought the cheapest ($299) toploader (Roper) she could find at the local furniture store.
RJ is shopping for a new fridge. I had forgotten about Whirlpool cutting back on warranty coverage, they no longer cover refrigerator sealed systems for 5 years. KitchenAid, however, extends parts-only coverage to 10 years. He's swayed toward that direction, but is waffling on whether warranty justifies KA's price premium over a "budget model" Whirly.
A few years ago when granny's Fedders window unit died, I opted for a "premium" Friedrich over going to Wal-Mart or Home Depot.
So .... it depends. I think a large number of people who buy expensive appliances (for upscale homes) don't do it because of true quality, but for perceived quality and "label prestige" for potential resale value. Seems like many people relocate frequently nowadays (and leave the appliances behind) so they'd never get the benefit of longevity from actual use of the items.
twinniefan
Well-known member
price vs quality
I feel most consumers tend to go for price over quality as they only want to or indeed have a certain amount of money to spend.
I also think that perhaps sometimes higher priced quality is not always as good as it claims to be and so cheaper can actually be better, I use myself as an example 3 years ago I decided that I would replace my 13 year old Westinghouse fridge freezer with a new side-by-side model, after shopping around and getting advice from different dealers I decided on a 589 litre G.E.with ice and water, it cost me a great deal of money ($3000.00 dollars Aus.)and while I could have got a Samsung or L.G. for much less cost(about $1800.00 dollars Aus)much of the advice I received was that these would not last as long as G.E. or a similar U.S. brand as they specialise in this type of fridge and so far it has been proven right.
Now for cheaper being better most people here wold remember my first couple of posts when I first joined this club about my Bosch front loader which basically disintegrated after just 3 years of standard use, this machine cost me $1000.00 Aus dollars and so a supposed quality brand ended up being a waste of money, so I got the Haier twin tub 18 months ago for $400.00 dollars and it works like a dream and this is a supposed cheap and nasty Chinese product.
However the bane of my life is electric kettles again I found the cheaper was better than the expensive name brands i.e. Sunbeam,Kambrook,Breville etc only seem to last 6-9 months and cost roughly about $40-50 dollars each now I got a cheap $15 kettle from the local Coles supermarkert and it has lasted about 15 months.
A really interesting thread thanks for it.
Cheers.
Steve.
P.S.I gave the old Westinghouse fridge to my elderly neighbours who were struggling along with just a small bar fridge and they tell me the fridge was a godsend and is still going strong.
I feel most consumers tend to go for price over quality as they only want to or indeed have a certain amount of money to spend.
I also think that perhaps sometimes higher priced quality is not always as good as it claims to be and so cheaper can actually be better, I use myself as an example 3 years ago I decided that I would replace my 13 year old Westinghouse fridge freezer with a new side-by-side model, after shopping around and getting advice from different dealers I decided on a 589 litre G.E.with ice and water, it cost me a great deal of money ($3000.00 dollars Aus.)and while I could have got a Samsung or L.G. for much less cost(about $1800.00 dollars Aus)much of the advice I received was that these would not last as long as G.E. or a similar U.S. brand as they specialise in this type of fridge and so far it has been proven right.
Now for cheaper being better most people here wold remember my first couple of posts when I first joined this club about my Bosch front loader which basically disintegrated after just 3 years of standard use, this machine cost me $1000.00 Aus dollars and so a supposed quality brand ended up being a waste of money, so I got the Haier twin tub 18 months ago for $400.00 dollars and it works like a dream and this is a supposed cheap and nasty Chinese product.
However the bane of my life is electric kettles again I found the cheaper was better than the expensive name brands i.e. Sunbeam,Kambrook,Breville etc only seem to last 6-9 months and cost roughly about $40-50 dollars each now I got a cheap $15 kettle from the local Coles supermarkert and it has lasted about 15 months.
A really interesting thread thanks for it.
Cheers.
Steve.
P.S.I gave the old Westinghouse fridge to my elderly neighbours who were struggling along with just a small bar fridge and they tell me the fridge was a godsend and is still going strong.
The Speed Queen washers seem to be the sort of machine you are describing. Here in AU they are badged as Kleenmaid and sell for huge prices. Kleenmaid sell on perceived quality - no doubt their SQ-sourced TLs are built like tanks, but they also sell Gorenje-sourced FLs at really premium prices, yet they are a basic machine manufactured in Slovenia, not a premium product at all.
I know several people with Kleenmaid TL washers, they all bought them because they were fed up with cheap machines that didn't last and were prepared to pay for something more durable.
Trouble with starting your own company for such a machine is, your buyers are going to be fairly conservative people looking for "old fashioned" tough products, they are not likely to be the type to take a risk on a brand they have never heard of before and may not be around in 10 years when spare parts are required.
There are already very solidly built appliances around, such as Miele and Speed Queen. They also have the advantage of well known brand names.
chris
I know several people with Kleenmaid TL washers, they all bought them because they were fed up with cheap machines that didn't last and were prepared to pay for something more durable.
Trouble with starting your own company for such a machine is, your buyers are going to be fairly conservative people looking for "old fashioned" tough products, they are not likely to be the type to take a risk on a brand they have never heard of before and may not be around in 10 years when spare parts are required.
There are already very solidly built appliances around, such as Miele and Speed Queen. They also have the advantage of well known brand names.
chris
twinniefan
Well-known member
Kleenmaid prices
Hi Chris,
Yes I agree with you about Kleenmaid expensive washers but quite solidly built as you say, I must say I did not know about their front loaders, that is surprising considering the prices, however as you correctly point out they do sell on perceived quality.
I must be honest though that is where I bought my G.E. fridge as they seem to be the sole distributor for G.E. fridges here in Oz, so I guess I am being a bit hypocritical, however this was the fridge I wanted so that was it.
I must say though I do feel they charge extortionate prices for their vacuum cleaners somewhere between $400-$600 for their barrel cleaner and I think it is only 1500 watts, you can most certainly do better than that for a vacuum I feel.
Cheers.
Steve.
Hi Chris,
Yes I agree with you about Kleenmaid expensive washers but quite solidly built as you say, I must say I did not know about their front loaders, that is surprising considering the prices, however as you correctly point out they do sell on perceived quality.
I must be honest though that is where I bought my G.E. fridge as they seem to be the sole distributor for G.E. fridges here in Oz, so I guess I am being a bit hypocritical, however this was the fridge I wanted so that was it.
I must say though I do feel they charge extortionate prices for their vacuum cleaners somewhere between $400-$600 for their barrel cleaner and I think it is only 1500 watts, you can most certainly do better than that for a vacuum I feel.
Cheers.
Steve.
Staber washing machines
This looks like a "small" company that is making a quality product. They are expensive though, but sounds kinda like what you were talking about.
http://www.staber.com/
This looks like a "small" company that is making a quality product. They are expensive though, but sounds kinda like what you were talking about.
http://www.staber.com/
I read: What I've fantasized about more than once is creating a company that built major appliances to yesteryear's standards of engineering excellence and physical quality. Styling would be conservative, yet current, but the appliances would be built like tanks. (snip) Engineers would be encouraged- in fact, required- to do things the best way, not the cheapest way.
Is this not, to a large extent, what Miele does quite well already? It's certainly a "niche" brand.
I'm hoping that my dishwasher and vacuum cleaner last the predicted 15-20 years (with appropriate care), and I'm seriously considering replacing my perfectly good 5 year old Frigidaire FL with a Miele when it dies.
Is this not, to a large extent, what Miele does quite well already? It's certainly a "niche" brand.
I'm hoping that my dishwasher and vacuum cleaner last the predicted 15-20 years (with appropriate care), and I'm seriously considering replacing my perfectly good 5 year old Frigidaire FL with a Miele when it dies.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
drhardee:
"Is this not, to a large extent, what Miele does quite well already? It's certainly a "niche" brand."
I'm not familiar with Miele's majors, but I have owned a White Star vacuum, very briefly. I found it to be of no better overall quality than a Panasonic vacuum, at a ridiculously exalted price (I'm assured by some German buddies that they certainly don't go for such Big Bucks over there).
I'd have to know more about Miele's major appliances before I could say anything about them, but that White Star was not a good introduction to the brand.
"Is this not, to a large extent, what Miele does quite well already? It's certainly a "niche" brand."
I'm not familiar with Miele's majors, but I have owned a White Star vacuum, very briefly. I found it to be of no better overall quality than a Panasonic vacuum, at a ridiculously exalted price (I'm assured by some German buddies that they certainly don't go for such Big Bucks over there).
I'd have to know more about Miele's major appliances before I could say anything about them, but that White Star was not a good introduction to the brand.
launderess
Well-known member
While one loves and also has toyed with the idea of an appliance manufacturer brining back the quality, design and such of vintage appliances, it just won't work in today's market. Sad, very sad but true.
First of all all that heavy steel, porcelian on steel, cast iron and so forth costs dear today; as does labour which would drive up the cost. On the consumer side, the market for such appliances is fast dying out as the Baby Boomers (the last generation to actually have known such appliances from their youth), dies away. Younger people are so taken with the throw away consumer culture that they would never pay in today's money what it would cost for such an appliance.
The last point is probably the biggest fly in the ointment. Adjusted for inflation, a TOL Maytag or GE washer that sold for say $300 or so during the 1950's or 1960's would cost near $1000 today if not more.
Post WWII, there was tons of factory capacity sitting around with nothing to do now that war contracts/supply was over, so they switched production to appliances, which came at a the right time with the "Baby Boom", "GI Bill", and the en masse move to those new homes in the surburbs. Once that need was met, appliance makers had to take a page or two from the car world, and bring out new models yearly or so and hope Mrs.American Housewife would trade up; but most rarely did. By the late 1960's you saw many of the great appliance names sold off or shut down as their parent companies saw the writing on the wall; durable white goods were starting to become consumer items at worst, or at best they were built so well consumers saw no need to replace a perfectly working appliance. Proof of this can be found in the hundreds if not thousands of vintage major appliances either chucked to the curb, or being sold that are in perfect working condition, or require minor repairs. Persons doing the chucking simply want something "new".
Also the consumer's mindset and corporate attitude towards quality has changed. Years ago, if a wife was lucky enough to get Mr. Average Joe American Husband to part with with his hard earned cash for a washing machine or other major appliance,it better work or he would be on the phone to the local appliance store where he purchased the item giving hell. The local store not wishing to get a bad reputation in the area, did the right thing. Well by and large small appliance stores are gone, replaced by Lowes, Home Depot and the like, all of which pretty much seem to care less what you think about them.
First of all all that heavy steel, porcelian on steel, cast iron and so forth costs dear today; as does labour which would drive up the cost. On the consumer side, the market for such appliances is fast dying out as the Baby Boomers (the last generation to actually have known such appliances from their youth), dies away. Younger people are so taken with the throw away consumer culture that they would never pay in today's money what it would cost for such an appliance.
The last point is probably the biggest fly in the ointment. Adjusted for inflation, a TOL Maytag or GE washer that sold for say $300 or so during the 1950's or 1960's would cost near $1000 today if not more.
Post WWII, there was tons of factory capacity sitting around with nothing to do now that war contracts/supply was over, so they switched production to appliances, which came at a the right time with the "Baby Boom", "GI Bill", and the en masse move to those new homes in the surburbs. Once that need was met, appliance makers had to take a page or two from the car world, and bring out new models yearly or so and hope Mrs.American Housewife would trade up; but most rarely did. By the late 1960's you saw many of the great appliance names sold off or shut down as their parent companies saw the writing on the wall; durable white goods were starting to become consumer items at worst, or at best they were built so well consumers saw no need to replace a perfectly working appliance. Proof of this can be found in the hundreds if not thousands of vintage major appliances either chucked to the curb, or being sold that are in perfect working condition, or require minor repairs. Persons doing the chucking simply want something "new".
Also the consumer's mindset and corporate attitude towards quality has changed. Years ago, if a wife was lucky enough to get Mr. Average Joe American Husband to part with with his hard earned cash for a washing machine or other major appliance,it better work or he would be on the phone to the local appliance store where he purchased the item giving hell. The local store not wishing to get a bad reputation in the area, did the right thing. Well by and large small appliance stores are gone, replaced by Lowes, Home Depot and the like, all of which pretty much seem to care less what you think about them.
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,993
as always, Launderess knows what she speaks.
people today wouldnt want to keep an appliance for 20 years. theyd be afraid someone might think it was old, or that the neighbors might think they couldnt afford a new one.
advertising culture has brainwashed people into feeling unsuccessful if they dont have the newest.
look at the automobile industry. many cars will easily last up to 150,000 miles, like Toyota. just think about the number of people who wouldnt be caught DEAD driving a car over three or five years old... many would sooner stop bathing than drive a "old" car.
people today wouldnt want to keep an appliance for 20 years. theyd be afraid someone might think it was old, or that the neighbors might think they couldnt afford a new one.
advertising culture has brainwashed people into feeling unsuccessful if they dont have the newest.
look at the automobile industry. many cars will easily last up to 150,000 miles, like Toyota. just think about the number of people who wouldnt be caught DEAD driving a car over three or five years old... many would sooner stop bathing than drive a "old" car.
launderess
Well-known member
It kills me when one sees perfectly or at least reasonably good appliances such as Hobart built KA dishwashers or a TOL Maytag washer being chucked to the curb because someone wants "new". Little do they know that the appliance they've so callously thrown away will probably out last AND out perform much of what is out there today.
Only saving grace for the idea of bringing back "vintage" appliances would be if someone with deep pockets did a small thing like Staber. Still much of the labour and know how and indeed suppliers of parts have either died off or moved onto other things. This is what people don't understand when they don't pay attention to a nation's manufacturering base declining. It is not just the fact that a Maytag or Hoover plant closes, but think of the suppliers who loose customers and have to go belly up as well. Metal workers, parts, even small guys like the local copy machine repair guy looses when a big plant closes down. The results trickle down and destroy a community.
Only saving grace for the idea of bringing back "vintage" appliances would be if someone with deep pockets did a small thing like Staber. Still much of the labour and know how and indeed suppliers of parts have either died off or moved onto other things. This is what people don't understand when they don't pay attention to a nation's manufacturering base declining. It is not just the fact that a Maytag or Hoover plant closes, but think of the suppliers who loose customers and have to go belly up as well. Metal workers, parts, even small guys like the local copy machine repair guy looses when a big plant closes down. The results trickle down and destroy a community.
Sometimes too the "over 50-60 crowd of adults" with deeper pockets, just want a replacement Similar to what they are Familiar with,and often they are the least expensive on the sales floor, Televisions are a good example. Im embarrassed to tell you my Mom had to show me how to turn on the oven in her new kenmore stove. alr2903
lasvegasrox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 88
how about appliances that are made of recycled materials and more energy efficent and quieter.maby they could turn in there old appliances to be made into new appliances and get a discount for doing so.I think thats much better than using alot of energy melting cast iron,and make simpler controls with no complicated settings. i have always wonderd why not use microwaves too heat water faster than aneything on the market.i know what u r thinking microwaves huh now i half to wash all my metal Utensils....if the ge trivection oven can cook with metal inside why cant dishwashers?
Microwaves are slower to heat water than a regular element of the same power consumption.
An 800 watt microwave oven consumes about 1400 watts of electricity, but has equivalent water heating ability as an 800 watt element - that's how they get the rating. When heating foods they are more efficient but water - no, they are a dead loss.
An 800 watt microwave oven consumes about 1400 watts of electricity, but has equivalent water heating ability as an 800 watt element - that's how they get the rating. When heating foods they are more efficient but water - no, they are a dead loss.
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