Questions about various FL washers

[charlesp210]

It's time (finally) to replace my 9 year old Whirlpool Calypso. Until now, I've been generally satisfied, only needed one repair (new pump) until now which cost me nothing at 3 years under Best Buy extended warranty. Two things I have really liked about it are that it's incredibly gentle on *most* clothes (others it can destroy, but I know what to avoid). And it's fairly quiet (machine room is right next to master bedroom, I never hear it until it shakes the drain hose during spin). It's not very good at washing allergen proof duvet (requires constant attention for deflating monster air bubble) and I wouldn't even attempt comforter for similar reasons (heard horror stories about washing comforter in Calypso).

I've really intended to go with Front Loader Next TIme for some time now. Front Loaders seem to combine excellent washing performance (better than Calypso most likely), gentleness on clothes, and I'm hoping would wash pillows, duvet, and queen size comforter. I've read the caveats on preventing mold buildup. I expect to run one hot/bleach load weekly as I do now for same reason (ran out of bleach last month and now Calypso stinks). I hope to get a pedestal for convenience, though plan to stick with my unpedestaled Neptune Dryer (I dump dry clothes from there into basket). I've never had or even imagined a dryer as good as the Real Maytag Neptune Dryer.

Three options suggest themselves to me, since I kinda like "the best" (which had been my intent in buying Calypso) at least from my vantage point. I avoid cheap when buying new products.

TOL Whirlpool Duet with Steam and ventilation fan
Miele 4842
Speed Queen Imperial AF51F
Electrolux Wave Touch EWFLS70JMB

Now I like the looks and description of the Speed Queen generally, especially the rotary controls (no more membrane xxxx). But is the 3.3cu ft tub really enough to wash a queen sized comforter? And how noisy is it, really? (I noticed, FWIW, that a leading consumer magazine (LCM) gives the lower model SQ they tested half black marks for noise and vibration). Interestingly, however, (and in contrast to one mistaken internet review based on this same LCM report) it scored excellent on gentleness, which is IMO the most important feature (I hate to buy new clothes, as it's always nearly impossible to find ones as good as last time).

As for the Miele, I was all set to look into that more, but noticed that LCM actually gave the Miele, which brags about the gentleness of their patented drum, only an average score for gentleness (open circle, that's actually labeled good now, but less good than very good or excellent of most recommended models). I'm also a bit concerned about even getting Miele service in my area (San Antonio, TX) and the high price of said service (after very high priced factory service agreement runs out).

Then there's the Electrolux, which seems to get great reviews everywhere. But just like Whirlpool (and even Miele nowadays!) it's another machine made in Mexico, and LCM doesn't even give it a 5 year reliability score (apparently not enough reports).

In fact, right now I'd say it looks like the Electrolux is my best choice, I just don't know if it's really worth more than the Whirlpool.

Which brings me back to Whirlpool, as is their standard, it has one more feature than even the TOL Electrolux, the built-in ventilation fan, which might be worth having. And despite ranting bad reviews about Whirlpool FL's on every site, it still gets a nearly top reliability rating in LCM. (You don't want to know the brand that gets the top rating(s), I won't buy that one regardless of what they say because I don't trust cheap whatever they say.)

http://www.speedqueen.com/sq_con_adv_pdf/ar08-100.pdf

 

[mrb627]

Speed Queen Imperials

I happen to own the SQ Imperial set. I like them a lot. A LOT! However, they are not the quietest machines on the market and probably not a good idea on a non-concrete floor. Speed Queen targets longevity over quietness. Especially since they market generally towards a commercial environment. Not sure about a queen sized comforter, but I can wash a heavy queen sized blanket without batting a eye. (it does have a 1hp motor)

If the SQ turns out to be not for you, I would suggest the Miele on your list followed by the Whirlpool.

Malcolm

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[pierreandreply4]

me i would go with this model made by whirlpool its also the new duet with the precesion detergent dispenser and you have the advantage thats its also quiet.

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www.whirlpool.com

 

[laundromat]

I was at Sears and saw the new Duets.They're real nice and the new style was a great step up from the original.The matching dryer also has a SS drum.

 

[combo52]

NEW FL WASHER

The SQ would be hands down the top choice, I have both a Calypso and SQ front load washer in my laundry area and even though the SQ is not the quietest FLer its much quieter that the Calypso, unless your machine is on a wooden floor that has some give in it. FL washers in general exert about 4 times the stress on a floor than TL washers do. 2nd choice would be the WP FLer. WP is the worlds largest and best overall builder of home laundry appliances and they generally do not disappoint you when it comes to performance and reliability. Frigidare is the good economy choice but never my first choice if top quality and longevity is your main concern. Just some general thoughts from my experience from repairing over 1000 laundry products per year and selling and recommending another 1-2 thousand machines per year.

 

[charlesp210]

Thanks!! It's clear now that I would not want to wash my comforter in 3.3 cu ft Speed Queen based on other discussion forums. So, OK, I guess I could live with that, after all, that's what I've been doing until now anyway.

My laundry room is right next to master bathroom, on cheap linoleum floor on top of concrete slab. Would I need to remove linoleum floor and set SQ on bare concrete for best results? Even the concrete slab is only guaranteed to be 3" thick as I understand it. What is the effect of pedestal?

Today I checked out Whirlpool Duet at Sears. They did not have the model Pierreandreply4 suggested which I'll abbreviate to 97, the current TOTL. They had the 95, 94, and smaller 9550. Only 95 and 94 had fan fresh which sounds like a very good idea to me as I'm often in the midst of critical work/play when washer finishes. I haven't figured out difference between 95 and 94 except 95 costs $180 more. Unless I see some important difference between 95 and 94 I might go with 94 (WFW94HEX) which is also the highest rated Whirlpool in leading consumer magazine (they didn't test 95 or 97) and rates just below brands I'd rather not mention (which happen to all be made by same manufacturer).

 

[frigilux]

I love my new Frigidaire with the 4.8 cu. ft. tub. It's made by Electrolux and seems to have some features handed down from that upscale brand. I don't often fill the tub completely, but when I need to, I'm glad to have that super capacity, as when washing comforters or huge loads of bath towels. I was also surprised to find that even very small loads (2 dress shirts and a pair of slacks, for example) tumbled well in the giant tub. In my old washer, which had more water in the tub, a small load would just roll over and over itself. The new washer is able to accomplish a great lift-and-drop with even a tiny load.

The Whirlpools have a proven track record and, I believe, quite a large tub.

It seems you are not at all into purchasing an LG...but the people I know who own them have had no problems, and LG has a dedicated steam generator which will produce more steam than the Electrolux and probably even the Whirlpool. Their reliability has increased to the top of CR's list. Quite honestly, I would have purchased a TOL LG pair if money was no object. But it was....so I got a TOL Frigidaire pair for $1,900. There are a couple of things that annoy me (getting a truly hot wash involves using the Allergy option or the Sanitize cycle), but overall I'm very happy with them. The steam function on the dryer has turned out to be my favorite feature.

Let us know which one you decide to get!

 

[charlesp210]

Thanks Frigilux and others. So is the dedicated steam with LG fundamentally different than the "steam" with Whirlpool and Electrolux?

LG just seem cheap to me, lighter weight construction, may be fine anyway, but i note there are very small differences in reliability chart and LG hasn't been around as long as others. Just now figured that Electrolux reliability is actually shown in chart as "Frigidaire" since they've been the same factory for some time, so they should be OK too.

Comparing the features of different Whirlpool models, I see that I do need WFW95HEX to actually get steam. (It's hard to compare because Whirlpool doesn't give you a cross comparison chart with everything, and when you print out individual machines the features are listed in different order. It's like they don't really want you to know.) I think steam is a significant plus, worth $180 unless it would cause reliability problems. Interesting that the magazine didn't test either top Whirlpool with Steam.

The 3 top models I call 97, 95, 94 have Precision Dispense, but 94 has plain Precision Dispense, 95 has Precision Dispense Plus, and 97 has Precision Dispense Ultra. Is that difference important? The 97 has these additional features:

Hand Wash Cycle
Full Color Widescreen LCD display
Stain Assist
20 hour delay (instead of 16 or 12)
Specialty Cycles
My Cycle
Troubleshooting Information

I think I could live without those, and I'm worried LCD is a potential future reliability problem unless it uses LED backlight.

 

[appnut]

The WFW94HEX has a 3 compartment dispenser and about 11 hour delay wash ooption and the WFW95HEX has a 4-compartment diispenser and 16 hour delay wash option. My best suggestion would be to go to the Whirlpool web site and download the user manual for the two models and study them. And other information between the two. I'm even sumped a little bit and that's very rare for me around here.

 

[logixx]

The 94 lacks a steam option, I think. "Steam for Stains" it's called. However, I wonder how these new Whirlpools produce steam when the parts list for them does not indicate any type of steam generator. Instead, the 94 "just" has the regular Stain Treat option, which gradually heats the water over the course of the wash.

I also wonder why they removed the Max Rinse aka Skin Care Rinse feature on the new models?!

What I do like about the newer and some of the older Whirlpools is that you can select the Sanitize wash temp on three or four cycles, not just one.

All in all, I'd probably go for the WFW9750: large, many options, Max Rinse and the price is right, too.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Well, on my (European) point of view and personal experience:

I'd say to get Miele as first choice, they're not "tanks" as one can believe but they're really well built even if the styling is terrible!
Then I'd go for a Speed Queen (only if you get the commercial stuff)
then Electrolux (that is really hit-and-miss)
and last Whirlpool, the absolute cr*p in my opinion, my machine had 3 major repairs under warranty and my father went through 2 dreamspace machines (the EU Duets) in 2 years, now we have a classic 5 kg Candy washer at home...

Steam, tub motions, venting fan, stain assist, colour display, are just useless marketing gimmicks!

Otherwise, I'd get a machine with inbuilt heater that really boosts water temperature to at least 160°F on ANY cycle and that has a spin speed greater than 1200 rpm and that has a serviceable pump filter oh and NO welded tubs

 

[mrb627]

Speed Queen

The Speed Queen on linoleum over concrete would work just fine. Mine is installed in a laundry room right next to the master bedroom and I don't hear it until the final spin.

Malcolm

 

[hoover1100]

From my experience

Definately Miele, very quiet in operation, and the best wash, rinse and spin results of any machine, and the most gentle on fabrics IMO.

Both Miele and Speed Queen are miles ahead of Whirlpool and Electrolux in terms of build quality and performance. Personally having used Speed Queen machines in a shared laundry in an Apartment I lived in, I was very dissappointed with their wash and in particular, rinse performance (despite doing 3 rinses by default, and filling from cold water only and heating) They also had recurring electronic faults which constantly required service (ok, more understandable in a commercial environment, but still more than I'd expect from fairly modern commercial machines).

That's just my take on the machines anyway.

Matt

 

[combo52]

SQ FL WASHERS

Will easily wash queen sized confronters, we do our king sized ones in it with no problems. I see almost no advantage in steam cycles its just more potential problems with very little benefit, this feature will never become that common on most washers.

 

[danmantn]

Don't base home SQ performance on what you see in the laundromat as the owner of the laundromat can make the wash as "cheap" as possible...reducing was times, etc. I went to one laundromat where the 50 lb machine completed in about 20 mins....i could have done better with a water hose! I had to rewash the comforter at another laundromat that washed for 55 minutes for the same amount of money.

Also, if you are concerned with size, do some laundromat shopping for ones that has the newer SQ front loaders and give it a spin. The 'mats near my house has them...but make sure they are the newer models that match SQ home offering...some have older FL models out there and may not be same size. You can also obtain cycle info from SQ.

 

[hoover1100]

Don't base home SQ performance on what you see in the la

Well these machines filled from cold, heated to selected temperature then washed for a while at the set temperature and did 3 rinses with interim spins (5 long-ish bursts) after wash and between each rinse. The water level for wash and rinse was up onto the door seal. The total wash time on a 40c (warm) wash was just over an hour.

Yet still the wash and rinse results were not up to much.

I don't know how this differs from the domestic versions but I can't imagine them being too different.

That was my experience anyway.

Matt

 

[mrb627]

Different

Sounds like the SQ machines over seas are quite different from here in their motherland. They certainly aren't cold fill only machines here.

Malcolm

 

[combo52]

SQ FL WASHERS

Will easily wash queen sized confronters, we do our king sized ones in it with no problems. I see almost no advantage in steam cycles its just more potential problems with very little benefit, this feature will never become that common on most washers.

 

[charlesp210]

Thanks for continuing dialog!!! Last night I stayed up very late reading the consumer magazine (back to 2007), online info, discussion here, and more. I have tentatively decided on the very model logixx suggests, the Whirlpool WFW9750WW. It has a slightly smaller tub than the 3 I originally suggested, 4.5 cf, but is the top model in that size, therefore has the Steam (as good as any other whirlpool anyway, it's a "Duet Steam" model after all), the fan, everything I think is important, but plain LED readout, which I think is less frilly anyway.

This also happens to be the #2 rated Whirlpool in the 2010 magazine. The #1 is the 94 discussed above, a model which lacks fan and steam, but is larger size. Every category score is identical between #1 and #2, but for some reason #1 gets one overall point higher (and just a couple of points lower than the low featured Kenmore-by-LG which rates highest). I feel I don't need the larger size, and not needing it, I'm probably better off without it. #2 also has one of the lowest if not THE lowest cycle time listed for a front loader, 65 minutes. Reading here, it seems that low cycle time can mean less wear on clothes (plus of course being more convenient). #1 is 75 minutes, and the Kenmore-by-LG is 100 minutes.

Both #1 and #2 are rated as being "very good" on gentleness. The only models that rate better ("excellent") are made by LG. Now going back to 2007, the equivalent #1 and #2 whirlpools showed the slightly smaller one getting the higher rating either because of better gentleness or cleaning performance. (LG still got the best rating for gentleness then too.)

Thinking that they set both models to meet the same water saving standards, there may be some advantage in the slightly smaller tub having better puddle of water. This pattern does not extend to the still smaller whirlpool tub sizes, however, which often lack cleaning performance or gentleness or both. Maybe in the smaller tub clothes have greater tendency to hit the tub rather than water.

My theory on LG having best "gentleness" consistently years back is that the flimsier drum/spider allows more give, therefore being easier on the clothes while it lasts. It could also use more plastic inside the drum (I haven't checked that part out yet). Many other theories are possible here related to motion, water level, etc.

Unfortunately for both Miele and Speed Queen, they are both one step down from the top Whirlpools for (rated) gentleness, which I feel is very important. This is very strange considering that Miele even uses special patented drum specifically for greater gentleness. But apparently that doesn't help much in the test the magazine does. Now the Miele does have "excellent" cleaning performance (better than Whirlpool) so perhaps they have chosen to maximize cleaning at slight cost in gentleness while Whirlpool went the other way. The Speed Queen, strangely, has only "good" performance both for cleaning and gentleness, one step down from Whirlpool in both. I'm thinking either drum is too small (which seems to affect smaller Whirlpools also) or maybe it's related to heavier duty metal and spider (no give) and metal baffles.

It doesn't look like local stores carry this model in stock, typical disappointment. I can order through store, but I wonder if, as long as I'm doing special order anyway, why not buy through online store for $400 less. Delivery through local stores hasn't given me special reason to recommend them, though last time, uncharacteristically, I had nice Refrigerator delivery from Sears (after only one cancellation instead of the usual three, one cancellation is par because sales is always giving you bs).