Friend of mine asked me about these, and as one knows next to nothing about such things, though I'd see what the group thinks.
Launderess
Launderess
Quick Way To Get 220 Volts?
- Thread starter sudsmaster
- Start date
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~Access to 220 / 240 volt wiring is made easy, fast and safe without the heat and weight of a step-up transformer.
Must be an electronic way to get 220v out of 110v.
But you still can't pull the max wattage you would be able to
on a Euro 15a (14a) 220v circuit. You'd be limited to our system's wattages.
Did not read thoroughly (since I am at work), but I'm hoping the output is nearly perfect sine-wave A/C rather than square wave or some choppy facsimile. Since most computers change A/C to D/C the "Appearance" of the A/C sine-wave should not be crucial.
Must be an electronic way to get 220v out of 110v.
But you still can't pull the max wattage you would be able to
on a Euro 15a (14a) 220v circuit. You'd be limited to our system's wattages.
Did not read thoroughly (since I am at work), but I'm hoping the output is nearly perfect sine-wave A/C rather than square wave or some choppy facsimile. Since most computers change A/C to D/C the "Appearance" of the A/C sine-wave should not be crucial.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
A friend/dealer in the UK sends us UK (220-240v) Singer 221 and 222 sewing machines to sell on eBay from here. I order 500w step-up converters from voltageconverters.com and they seem to run OK on those. Cost is about $29 each + shipping.
Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground? It looks like there are two input cords on the unit in question. Could it take the hot from one and the hot from another to form 2 hot prongs, then combine the grounds for the third prong? Kind of like the 220 here but we do it with two tied 110 breakers and a single feed wire?
Chuck
Card-carrying pyromaniac (well, until I burned the card!!!)
Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground? It looks like there are two input cords on the unit in question. Could it take the hot from one and the hot from another to form 2 hot prongs, then combine the grounds for the third prong? Kind of like the 220 here but we do it with two tied 110 breakers and a single feed wire?
Chuck
Card-carrying pyromaniac (well, until I burned the card!!!)
nurdlinger
Well-known member
Quoted from the product sheet
Specifications for Quick 220 Power Tap (all models)
INPUT:
Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase
====================================
Is this easy to obtain? I thought most home wiring was one phase only.
Specifications for Quick 220 Power Tap (all models)
INPUT:
Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase
====================================
Is this easy to obtain? I thought most home wiring was one phase only.
selectomatic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
It depends on what you'd be running with it.
As Toggleswitch already said, there's a limit to how much current you could draw, but I'd be more concerned about the waveshape.
Transformers (which are bigger and heavier than this device) can convert sine waves of one voltage to sine waves of another voltage. Electronic voltage converters like this one usually put out power that is close to sinusoidal, but not exactly. How 'wrong' the shape of the wave is depends on the device and on the load. Whether the shape of the wave makes any difference depends on the device you connect to it, and on what devices you're using in its vicinity.
What this means is that some older, more delicate electronics might malfunction if they don't have power that they're happy with, and audio equipment connected to this device OR in its vicinity might hum or buzz because of interference. I know it's not supposed to interfere with such things, but that doesn't mean that it won't.
-kevin
As Toggleswitch already said, there's a limit to how much current you could draw, but I'd be more concerned about the waveshape.
Transformers (which are bigger and heavier than this device) can convert sine waves of one voltage to sine waves of another voltage. Electronic voltage converters like this one usually put out power that is close to sinusoidal, but not exactly. How 'wrong' the shape of the wave is depends on the device and on the load. Whether the shape of the wave makes any difference depends on the device you connect to it, and on what devices you're using in its vicinity.
What this means is that some older, more delicate electronics might malfunction if they don't have power that they're happy with, and audio equipment connected to this device OR in its vicinity might hum or buzz because of interference. I know it's not supposed to interfere with such things, but that doesn't mean that it won't.
-kevin
thor
Well-known member
What I think it does is just take power from the two hot wires of the two different circuits and connect them to one single output plug, hence 240V, like your dryer with two hot wires.
selectomatic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
Thor is correct
I didn't read the Input Specs carefully enough. US "Single Phase" actually has two lines which are 180-degrees out of phase. I never knew why it wasn't called "Two Phase."
You'd have to find two outlets that were out of phase, and connect them. In a reasonably modern kitchen this shouldn't be a problem, but elsewhere it might be.
I guess the 8 additional watts is for the indicator and the safety circuit.
-kevin
I didn't read the Input Specs carefully enough. US "Single Phase" actually has two lines which are 180-degrees out of phase. I never knew why it wasn't called "Two Phase."
You'd have to find two outlets that were out of phase, and connect them. In a reasonably modern kitchen this shouldn't be a problem, but elsewhere it might be.
I guess the 8 additional watts is for the indicator and the safety circuit.
-kevin
~INPUT: Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase
Jeez, that sounds like they are fishing for two hots to get 220v, now don't it?
A GF(C)I- [Residual current detector=>UK] will pop in that the neutral will be shared/split and so this device can't have GF(C)I proected circuits.
~Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground?
Yes and no. Not in the way you may be thinking of it.
Phase (hot) to neutral there (Europe)is 220-240. Hot-to-hot is 370v IIRC
Phase (hot) to neutral here (America)is 110-120 hot-to-hot is 208-220v
Jeez, that sounds like they are fishing for two hots to get 220v, now don't it?
A GF(C)I- [Residual current detector=>UK] will pop in that the neutral will be shared/split and so this device can't have GF(C)I proected circuits.
~Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground?
Yes and no. Not in the way you may be thinking of it.
Phase (hot) to neutral there (Europe)is 220-240. Hot-to-hot is 370v IIRC
Phase (hot) to neutral here (America)is 110-120 hot-to-hot is 208-220v
~Is this easy to obtain? I thought most home wiring was one phase only.
OH BOY.
Frequntly a QUAD (two duplex oputlets [power-points] side-by-side [as seen in some kitchens] are a 3-wire circuit with two hots and a neutral.
This is two 110v circuits of 15a or 20a each that share a neutral. The neutral can be shared in that the hots are 180* out-of phase with each other. A neutral MAY NOT be shared by two hots on the same phase in that the neutral wire is then carrying twice its rated ameparge and *KABOOM* melt-down it won't be pretty.
Think of it this way. If there are two 1500w toasters plugged in, one on each circuit with a shared neutral, they are each splitting 220v (available between the two hots) and the neutral is not really being utilized. If you change the wattages to two differnt ones on each circuit, the neutral carries the difference, but basically the two are on 220v in series-- with each outlet and appliance receiving 110v.
Thoroughly confused? LOL
Chuck if you did in Europe what we do here (to get 220v) you'd get 440v. (With 3-phase systems you'd get less voltage hot-to hot, but let's look past that for now.)
USA: 110 hot to neutral => 220 hot to hot versus
EUROPE: 220 hot to neutral => 440 hot to hot.
Speakign of cycles cycles (50 & 60), isn't it funny that these electrical issues disappear for soem time then a number of such questions come up at once *LOL*
OH BOY.
Frequntly a QUAD (two duplex oputlets [power-points] side-by-side [as seen in some kitchens] are a 3-wire circuit with two hots and a neutral.
This is two 110v circuits of 15a or 20a each that share a neutral. The neutral can be shared in that the hots are 180* out-of phase with each other. A neutral MAY NOT be shared by two hots on the same phase in that the neutral wire is then carrying twice its rated ameparge and *KABOOM* melt-down it won't be pretty.
Think of it this way. If there are two 1500w toasters plugged in, one on each circuit with a shared neutral, they are each splitting 220v (available between the two hots) and the neutral is not really being utilized. If you change the wattages to two differnt ones on each circuit, the neutral carries the difference, but basically the two are on 220v in series-- with each outlet and appliance receiving 110v.
Thoroughly confused? LOL
Chuck if you did in Europe what we do here (to get 220v) you'd get 440v. (With 3-phase systems you'd get less voltage hot-to hot, but let's look past that for now.)
USA: 110 hot to neutral => 220 hot to hot versus
EUROPE: 220 hot to neutral => 440 hot to hot.
Speakign of cycles cycles (50 & 60), isn't it funny that these electrical issues disappear for soem time then a number of such questions come up at once *LOL*
"Two Phase"
My vintage Miele washing machine states "Two Phase" power on the power spec plate. Always wondered just what the heck they meant.
IIRC the fuse box for our place is wired from 220V, with one 120V cable feeding one side of the box, and another 120V cable feeding the other. Electrician told me it is cheaper to wire buildings this way.
Interesting dodad, if it actually does work and is safe. Essentially one is creating a 220v circut by running two extension cords from circuts out of phase into some sort of switch box with an outlet.
Still one has to wonder how safe this is:
One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts? Wouldn't that cause a very real risk of fire/over heating somewhere in the wiring or inside the service box?
Two, if the appliance is connected and turn on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall, isn't the thing still live with enough power to cause harm?
Seller claims one can run European washing machines and dryers off the dodad, which though pull lots of juice, not as much as say an American electric dryer.
L.
My vintage Miele washing machine states "Two Phase" power on the power spec plate. Always wondered just what the heck they meant.
IIRC the fuse box for our place is wired from 220V, with one 120V cable feeding one side of the box, and another 120V cable feeding the other. Electrician told me it is cheaper to wire buildings this way.
Interesting dodad, if it actually does work and is safe. Essentially one is creating a 220v circut by running two extension cords from circuts out of phase into some sort of switch box with an outlet.
Still one has to wonder how safe this is:
One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts? Wouldn't that cause a very real risk of fire/over heating somewhere in the wiring or inside the service box?
Two, if the appliance is connected and turn on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall, isn't the thing still live with enough power to cause harm?
Seller claims one can run European washing machines and dryers off the dodad, which though pull lots of juice, not as much as say an American electric dryer.
L.
nurdlinger
Well-known member
OK, say there's two phases
How does the average yutz in his kitchen discover two outlets with the appropriate phase relationship?
How does the average yutz in his kitchen discover two outlets with the appropriate phase relationship?
nurdlinger
Well-known member
I mean of course
in the absence of an oscilloscope or other kilobux test equipment.
in the absence of an oscilloscope or other kilobux test equipment.
~Electrician told me it is cheaper to wire buildings this way.
Shared neutrals with our 3-wire system seem to be key.
You do mean less expensive dontcha in that cheap actually means stingy or as used poor quality.
~One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts?
Wel just as in any other set-up the circuit protection (fuses or breakers) will limit excessive current [amperage draw]
~Two, if the appliance is connected and turned on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall.......
Good point. Hopefully there are relays in the device that de- energize one hot if the other is de-engergized.
Euro dryer? 2500w divided by two circuits may just work here.
2500w on 220v = 11a.
Shared neutrals with our 3-wire system seem to be key.
You do mean less expensive dontcha in that cheap actually means stingy or as used poor quality.
~One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts?
Wel just as in any other set-up the circuit protection (fuses or breakers) will limit excessive current [amperage draw]
~Two, if the appliance is connected and turned on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall.......
Good point. Hopefully there are relays in the device that de- energize one hot if the other is de-engergized.
Euro dryer? 2500w divided by two circuits may just work here.
2500w on 220v = 11a.
The company includes another little doodad with the converter so one can go a huntin.
~How does the average yutz in his kitchen discover two outlets with the appropriate phase relationship?
Trial and error.
The voltage between two hots of the same phase is ZERO.
(of course either hot to ground or neutral is still 110v in the USA!)
Trial and error.
The voltage between two hots of the same phase is ZERO.
(of course either hot to ground or neutral is still 110v in the USA!)
This does the same thing backwards that my homemade power- strip that was gifted to Nathan (in Tucson, AZ.) does
My device took 220v from a dyrer outlet and broke it into two 110v circuits, as well as numerous 220v prong configurations to be able to plug in any and all toys found of either voltage.
20a 110v (regular line voltage)
20a 110v
50a 220v stove 1
50a 220v stove 2
30a 220v dryer 1
30a 220v dryer 2
30a 220v A/C
20a 220v A/C
Thin 110v cord and plug was just to estabish a ground/earth connection.
My device took 220v from a dyrer outlet and broke it into two 110v circuits, as well as numerous 220v prong configurations to be able to plug in any and all toys found of either voltage.
20a 110v (regular line voltage)
20a 110v
50a 220v stove 1
50a 220v stove 2
30a 220v dryer 1
30a 220v dryer 2
30a 220v A/C
20a 220v A/C
Thin 110v cord and plug was just to estabish a ground/earth connection.
Wow!
Actually, some 'steam' carpet cleaners of the 1970's did this and yes, they had safety disconnects to protect you when you pulled one plug. You did have to wander through a house, tho', until you found the right outlet.
Miele, at least in Germany, offered appliances for many years which would accept single, split or three-phase. Since normal people tend to call North American split phase 'two-phase' (we don't on this site after a horrendously nasty war waged by the anal-retentive vs. the humorless)I am guessing they just mislabeled it so.
By the by, Euro dryers tend to run at 3600 Watts (I am not speaking for the UK here, may the gods forfend...) Let's see: 3600 Watts at 125V is 28.8amps, no? (we are pretending that AC behaves as would a non-reactive, purely resistive DC load, just in case some of the hyper-correct are on-board).
Still, I am curious...if anyone has any real-life experience with these, it would be great to hear it.
Split phase does offer cost savings in real terms. Anyone seen the price of CU lately?!
Actually, some 'steam' carpet cleaners of the 1970's did this and yes, they had safety disconnects to protect you when you pulled one plug. You did have to wander through a house, tho', until you found the right outlet.
Miele, at least in Germany, offered appliances for many years which would accept single, split or three-phase. Since normal people tend to call North American split phase 'two-phase' (we don't on this site after a horrendously nasty war waged by the anal-retentive vs. the humorless)I am guessing they just mislabeled it so.
By the by, Euro dryers tend to run at 3600 Watts (I am not speaking for the UK here, may the gods forfend...) Let's see: 3600 Watts at 125V is 28.8amps, no? (we are pretending that AC behaves as would a non-reactive, purely resistive DC load, just in case some of the hyper-correct are on-board).
Still, I am curious...if anyone has any real-life experience with these, it would be great to hear it.
Split phase does offer cost savings in real terms. Anyone seen the price of CU lately?!
~Since normal people tend to call North American split phase 'two-phase' (we don't on this site after a horrendously nasty war waged by the anal-retentive vs. the humorless)
LOL ROFL LMAO. OMG that was an amzaing thread.
Wasn't that (the anal-retetive AND the humorless) versus (the free-thinkers)?
DUCKS AND RUNS FOR THE HILLS!
one hot=> one-phase
two hots => two-phase
three hots => three-phase
See doesn't that work nicely and logically even if technically line 2 is not perfetly correct?
I can see religion as a topic getting hot. I can see politics getting hot, I can see sex getting hot, I can see morality getting hot BUT WIRING? OY VEY!
LOL ROFL LMAO. OMG that was an amzaing thread.
Wasn't that (the anal-retetive AND the humorless) versus (the free-thinkers)?
DUCKS AND RUNS FOR THE HILLS!
one hot=> one-phase
two hots => two-phase
three hots => three-phase
See doesn't that work nicely and logically even if technically line 2 is not perfetly correct?
I can see religion as a topic getting hot. I can see politics getting hot, I can see sex getting hot, I can see morality getting hot BUT WIRING? OY VEY!
Quick Way To Get 220 Volts.
Easy: move one wire (of a single circuit line) in the fuse-box from neutral to a circuit-protected hot and be sure to replace your outlet/power-point to one with a 220v prong configuration.
20 minutes start-to-finish, unless you have to carve open a painted-on circuit-breaker panel cover.
I used to do these conversions on A/C lines 110v to 220v or 220v to 110v for extra pocket change.
Easy: move one wire (of a single circuit line) in the fuse-box from neutral to a circuit-protected hot and be sure to replace your outlet/power-point to one with a 220v prong configuration.
20 minutes start-to-finish, unless you have to carve open a painted-on circuit-breaker panel cover.
I used to do these conversions on A/C lines 110v to 220v or 220v to 110v for extra pocket change.
