Quick Way To Get 220 Volts?

[launderess]

Friend of mine asked me about these, and as one knows next to nothing about such things, though I'd see what the group thinks.

Launderess

http://www.quick220.com/220_volt.htm

 

[sudsmaster]

Toggle/Steve,

You bring up an interesting point. Out there solar electric rooftop panels are becoming more popular, and with a long summer season they are making economic sense as well. Part of the paradigm of going solar is that it really pays first to do an energy audit. Then all electrical inefficiencies are addressed - old watt guzzling fridges, incandescent lighting, parasitic phantom loads (wall warts and older electronics), etc. Then one can size a solar system to support what's left. This can save many thousands in solar electice capital costs.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Access to 220 / 240 volt wiring is made easy, fast and safe without the heat and weight of a step-up transformer.

Must be an electronic way to get 220v out of 110v.

But you still can't pull the max wattage you would be able to
on a Euro 15a (14a) 220v circuit. You'd be limited to our system's wattages.

Did not read thoroughly (since I am at work), but I'm hoping the output is nearly perfect sine-wave A/C rather than square wave or some choppy facsimile. Since most computers change A/C to D/C the "Appearance" of the A/C sine-wave should not be crucial.

 

[perc-o-prince]

A friend/dealer in the UK sends us UK (220-240v) Singer 221 and 222 sewing machines to sell on eBay from here. I order 500w step-up converters from voltageconverters.com and they seem to run OK on those. Cost is about $29 each + shipping.

Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground? It looks like there are two input cords on the unit in question. Could it take the hot from one and the hot from another to form 2 hot prongs, then combine the grounds for the third prong? Kind of like the 220 here but we do it with two tied 110 breakers and a single feed wire?

Chuck
Card-carrying pyromaniac (well, until I burned the card!!!)

 

[nurdlinger]

Quoted from the product sheet

Specifications for Quick 220 Power Tap (all models)

INPUT:

Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase
====================================

Is this easy to obtain? I thought most home wiring was one phase only.

 

[selectomatic]

It depends on what you'd be running with it.

As Toggleswitch already said, there's a limit to how much current you could draw, but I'd be more concerned about the waveshape.

Transformers (which are bigger and heavier than this device) can convert sine waves of one voltage to sine waves of another voltage. Electronic voltage converters like this one usually put out power that is close to sinusoidal, but not exactly. How 'wrong' the shape of the wave is depends on the device and on the load. Whether the shape of the wave makes any difference depends on the device you connect to it, and on what devices you're using in its vicinity.

What this means is that some older, more delicate electronics might malfunction if they don't have power that they're happy with, and audio equipment connected to this device OR in its vicinity might hum or buzz because of interference. I know it's not supposed to interfere with such things, but that doesn't mean that it won't.

-kevin

 

[thor]

What I think it does is just take power from the two hot wires of the two different circuits and connect them to one single output plug, hence 240V, like your dryer with two hot wires.

 

[selectomatic]

Thor is correct

I didn't read the Input Specs carefully enough. US "Single Phase" actually has two lines which are 180-degrees out of phase. I never knew why it wasn't called "Two Phase."

You'd have to find two outlets that were out of phase, and connect them. In a reasonably modern kitchen this shouldn't be a problem, but elsewhere it might be.

I guess the 8 additional watts is for the indicator and the safety circuit.

-kevin

 

[toggleswitch]

~INPUT: Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase
Jeez, that sounds like they are fishing for two hots to get 220v, now don't it?

A GF(C)I- [Residual current detector=>UK] will pop in that the neutral will be shared/split and so this device can't have GF(C)I proected circuits.

~Toggle, does UK voltage run with 2 hots and a ground?
Yes and no. Not in the way you may be thinking of it.
Phase (hot) to neutral there (Europe)is 220-240. Hot-to-hot is 370v IIRC
Phase (hot) to neutral here (America)is 110-120 hot-to-hot is 208-220v

 

[toggleswitch]

~Is this easy to obtain? I thought most home wiring was one phase only.

OH BOY.

Frequntly a QUAD (two duplex oputlets [power-points] side-by-side [as seen in some kitchens] are a 3-wire circuit with two hots and a neutral.

This is two 110v circuits of 15a or 20a each that share a neutral. The neutral can be shared in that the hots are 180* out-of phase with each other. A neutral MAY NOT be shared by two hots on the same phase in that the neutral wire is then carrying twice its rated ameparge and *KABOOM* melt-down it won't be pretty.

Think of it this way. If there are two 1500w toasters plugged in, one on each circuit with a shared neutral, they are each splitting 220v (available between the two hots) and the neutral is not really being utilized. If you change the wattages to two differnt ones on each circuit, the neutral carries the difference, but basically the two are on 220v in series-- with each outlet and appliance receiving 110v.

Thoroughly confused? LOL

Chuck if you did in Europe what we do here (to get 220v) you'd get 440v. (With 3-phase systems you'd get less voltage hot-to hot, but let's look past that for now.)

USA: 110 hot to neutral => 220 hot to hot versus
EUROPE: 220 hot to neutral => 440 hot to hot.

Speakign of cycles cycles (50 & 60), isn't it funny that these electrical issues disappear for soem time then a number of such questions come up at once *LOL*

 

[launderess]

"Two Phase"

My vintage Miele washing machine states "Two Phase" power on the power spec plate. Always wondered just what the heck they meant.

IIRC the fuse box for our place is wired from 220V, with one 120V cable feeding one side of the box, and another 120V cable feeding the other. Electrician told me it is cheaper to wire buildings this way.

Interesting dodad, if it actually does work and is safe. Essentially one is creating a 220v circut by running two extension cords from circuts out of phase into some sort of switch box with an outlet.

Still one has to wonder how safe this is:

One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts? Wouldn't that cause a very real risk of fire/over heating somewhere in the wiring or inside the service box?

Two, if the appliance is connected and turn on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall, isn't the thing still live with enough power to cause harm?

Seller claims one can run European washing machines and dryers off the dodad, which though pull lots of juice, not as much as say an American electric dryer.

L.

 

[nurdlinger]

OK, say there's two phases

How does the average yutz in his kitchen discover two outlets with the appropriate phase relationship?

 

[nurdlinger]

I mean of course

in the absence of an oscilloscope or other kilobux test equipment.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Electrician told me it is cheaper to wire buildings this way.

Shared neutrals with our 3-wire system seem to be key.
You do mean less expensive dontcha in that cheap actually means stingy or as used poor quality.

~One, aren't you pulling the max amount from both circuts?
Wel just as in any other set-up the circuit protection (fuses or breakers) will limit excessive current [amperage draw]

~Two, if the appliance is connected and turned on, and someone touches/disconnects one of the extension cords from the wall.......

Good point. Hopefully there are relays in the device that de- energize one hot if the other is de-engergized.

Euro dryer? 2500w divided by two circuits may just work here.
2500w on 220v = 11a.

 

[launderess]

The company includes another little doodad with the converter so one can go a huntin.

 

[toggleswitch]

~How does the average yutz in his kitchen discover two outlets with the appropriate phase relationship?

Trial and error.

The voltage between two hots of the same phase is ZERO.
(of course either hot to ground or neutral is still 110v in the USA!)

 

[toggleswitch]

This does the same thing backwards that my homemade power- strip that was gifted to Nathan (in Tucson, AZ.) does

My device took 220v from a dyrer outlet and broke it into two 110v circuits, as well as numerous 220v prong configurations to be able to plug in any and all toys found of either voltage.

20a 110v (regular line voltage)
20a 110v
50a 220v stove 1
50a 220v stove 2
30a 220v dryer 1
30a 220v dryer 2
30a 220v A/C
20a 220v A/C

Thin 110v cord and plug was just to estabish a ground/earth connection.

 

[panthera]

Wow!

Actually, some 'steam' carpet cleaners of the 1970's did this and yes, they had safety disconnects to protect you when you pulled one plug. You did have to wander through a house, tho', until you found the right outlet.
Miele, at least in Germany, offered appliances for many years which would accept single, split or three-phase. Since normal people tend to call North American split phase 'two-phase' (we don't on this site after a horrendously nasty war waged by the anal-retentive vs. the humorless)I am guessing they just mislabeled it so.
By the by, Euro dryers tend to run at 3600 Watts (I am not speaking for the UK here, may the gods forfend...) Let's see: 3600 Watts at 125V is 28.8amps, no? (we are pretending that AC behaves as would a non-reactive, purely resistive DC load, just in case some of the hyper-correct are on-board).
Still, I am curious...if anyone has any real-life experience with these, it would be great to hear it.
Split phase does offer cost savings in real terms. Anyone seen the price of CU lately?!

 

[toggleswitch]

~Since normal people tend to call North American split phase 'two-phase' (we don't on this site after a horrendously nasty war waged by the anal-retentive vs. the humorless)

LOL ROFL LMAO. OMG that was an amzaing thread.

Wasn't that (the anal-retetive AND the humorless) versus (the free-thinkers)?

DUCKS AND RUNS FOR THE HILLS!

one hot=> one-phase
two hots => two-phase
three hots => three-phase

See doesn't that work nicely and logically even if technically line 2 is not perfetly correct?

I can see religion as a topic getting hot. I can see politics getting hot, I can see sex getting hot, I can see morality getting hot BUT WIRING? OY VEY!

 

[toggleswitch]

Quick Way To Get 220 Volts.

Easy: move one wire (of a single circuit line) in the fuse-box from neutral to a circuit-protected hot and be sure to replace your outlet/power-point to one with a 220v prong configuration.

20 minutes start-to-finish, unless you have to carve open a painted-on circuit-breaker panel cover.

I used to do these conversions on A/C lines 110v to 220v or 220v to 110v for extra pocket change.

 

[panthera]

Steve,

I missed your gadget - our posts must have crossed. Neat!
That switch over trick of yours wouldn't work in many houses out here in the Rocky Mountain West. Maybe 'cause of the Mexican or the European influence, there is still a lot of 'classical bridge' work installed.
(Classical Bridge was a means of grounding an outlet through the white (dare I say 'neutral'?!). It was used extensively in Europe , Mexico and other places. Frowned upon and/or forbidden today...)

 

[toggleswitch]

That is why I needed the 110v cord and plug. To get a true ground/earth in that the house that this was intended for has a "classical bridge" (combined neutral/ground) in its three prong 220v dryer outlet that was/is the source of power [Two hots and bridged neutral/ground.]

 

[panthera]

You're

The best Toggles...no need to switch.
(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

[launderess]

Think where some thing like this doodad shines is where one wishes to run a large 220v appliance like maybe a powersaw or European washing machine/dryer or even ironer (hint), that requires excess of 2000 watts of power.

While not an expert, do know from my trials with the Pfaff ironer, that even a 3000w step-up/step-down converter cannot run an Euro appliance that calls for 2,05kw at 220v for long on a 120v/20amp circut, and even less on a 120v/15amp circut. Step-up transformers will pull twice the amount called for when going from 110 to 220 that means 2000 watts at 120v is almost 4000w at 120v, and household wiring simply cannot provide that sort of power long. If one is lucky the transformer will smoke and kill itself saving your appliance and wiring, or the fuses blow/breakers trip; worst case wiring will get hot enough to cause a fire. Mind you did run my Pfaff ironer off a step-up converter, but soon learned using the steam boiler,which added another 1000 watts was O-W-U-T, out; and not to run the unit more than an hour at a time,even then on medium power instead of full.

Have been reading around the Internet and many people seem to be interested and or have used Quick220. Most are people who have European appliances that require 220v such as coffee/expresso machines, and or power tools. Meanwhile most electricans deplore the thing and state not only does it violate code, is downright dangerous if used incorrectly. Then again others say if one knows what one is doing, and there simply isn't any other way to get 220v power, then the Quick220v is better than nothing. Just wouldn't leave it connected all the time is the common warning.

Am still worried about someone tripping over or somehow coming into contact with either of the two incoming plugs while one is using an appliance. Since one has to run extension cords all over the place to find two out of phase outlets, it could be an accident waiting to happen.

Still, do not think considering the court happy society of the United States a device totally unsafe would be freely marketed. One serious accident would leave the company on the hook for millions.

L.

 

[toggleswitch]

2.05 KW draw is 2.05 KW draw period, as long as the machine is getting its proper voltage. The wattage only changes when he voltage APPLIED TO THE LOAD changes, and that is a function of OHM's LAW where E= I x R. (volts = apms x resistance)

It is the AMPERAGE that doubles, when given wattage (here 2.05 kw) comes from 110v versus 220v.

WATTS = VOLTS X AMPS

2,050w = 110v x 16.64a
2,050w = 220v x 9.36a

Unless there are standby and other (HEAVY) losses in the transformer (when using a step-up transformer) I have to respectfully disagree that the wattage drawn changes.

 

[sudsmaster]

Thor is correct, this device simply does what an electrican could do: pull power off two out-of-phase circuits. Most homes, even if they only have 110 volt outlets, are served by two out of phase 110 volt wires.

However, in older homes, the chance of finding two outlets in the same room that are out of phase might be rather slim. Same for many apartments. Some apartments might even be all on the same phase.

Another potential (no pun intended) issue might be that other equipment on one of the circuits might result in an "out-of-balance" condition, where one leg of the final 220 volt circuit trips the breaker (or blows the glass fuse) and the equipment will generally shudder to a halt. For this reason I believe most modern 220 volt US circuits have ganged breakers - if one leg trips, it brings down the other leg as well.

In my place of work we have a rather seat-of-pants electrical system. The compressor runs on 220, made up of two 110 volt circuits, each with a separate breaker, not ganged. Unfortunately one of the circuits also supports some overhead lighting and benchtop machine equipment (drill presses etc). So when that circuit gets overloaded, it trips the one breaker. The compressor shuts off (it must have some sort of protection in its on/off switch). Invariably only one of the breakers needs to be reset. But of course I always forget which one and wind up resetting both anyways. To get around this problem I've run an extension cord from another 110 volt circuit to power the bench-top equipment, and this more or less prevents the compressor outtages.

 

[tolivac]

220V-ganged breakers-and breakers for 3ph circuits-its required by NEC that the breakers be ganged.In the 3ph circuit especially-if its feeding a 3ph motor-if one leg trips and the others don't=fried motor.Ran into this in a transmitter someone put in a makeshift 3ph "breaker" involving individual breaker units-but didn't gang them.One breaker went bad-tripped-the others did not and fried the blower motor.Installed a new motor and proper ganged 3ph breaker-no more problems there.

 

[toggleswitch]

~I can see morality getting hot BUT WIRING? OY VEY!

Well now that I think of it wiring can get and be "hot" can't it?

DUH!!!

*LOL*

 

[gizmo]

"....Anyone see the price of CU lately?"

It's Cu not CU.

The anally retentive humo(u)rless pedants are lurking...

Chris

 

[panthera]

Ah, well

That's what you get for waking sleeping dogs. Sorry, Chris. Refering to the SI-standard abbreviation, you are correct. But electricians and electrical goods manufacturers abbreviate CU and AL on their job forms, switches, etc. At least in Germany and North America.
So I was thinking in that vein.
This being a discussion of electrical practices and all...
(I am pre-first-cup-of-coffee here, so hope this isn't quite as grumpy as it sounds...but gosh...let's not and say we didn't, ok?)