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Electrical consumption

 
All-electric.  Less than average cooking and washing and water heating.  24yo garage refrigerator.  17yo house refrigerator.  Aerobic septic system.  Water well.  Two desktop computers run 24/7; another used 1.5 hrs-ish, on "sleep" rest of the time, each on a separate UPS.  Various other electronics.

104.17 kWH - Fri 8/27 (turned off the doing-nothing central A/C at noon, 6K window unit installed afternoon)

51.29 - Sat 8/28 (18K window unit added late afternoon)

83.50 - Sun 8/29

85.96 - Mon 8/30 (last day of running the central blower to circulate the window units for floor fans instead, 18K turned off at midnight-ish to 7:30-8am)

58.21 - Tue 8/31

53.17 - Wed 9/1

53.00 - Thu 9/2

47.25 - Fri 9/3

57.54 - Sat 9/4

54.17 - Sun 9/5

52.08 - Mon 9/6

56.79 - Tue 9/7

54.13 - Wed 9/8

53.04 - Thu 9/9
 
A few months ago I switched to the TOU "Light" Tier: 5pm to 8 pm, M-F, lower rates. At the time, PG&E said it might save me $5/mo at my then current usage.

 

What I have done is to shut off the two-speed recirculation pump on the 1000+ gallon koi pond in the back garden, M-F from about 4 pm to 9 pm. I believe this has increased the savings. Last time I checked, the big pond pump uses about 150 watts at low speed, depending on how the water valve is set. I tested this one day to see if there was any ill effect on the fish. There wasn't. In fact a few days ago I shut it off about 4 pm but forgot to turn it back on. So it was off for at least 12 hours, till I got to it the next morning. No ill effect on the fish or waters quality. I've been working on adding a timer to the circuit, but since it's all outdoors it might be a bit tricky.

 

The other major electric usage is the well pump. I use that water to irrigate the back garden, and also to sprinkle the front lawn. There's probably a trade off between the water cost of using city water for those things, and the electricity cost for using the well water. I just haven't calculated which is more costly. As it is, I have timers on the various watering devices and these turn on  the well pump well outside the TOU restriction hours. The fish ponds get topped off every morning with city water via timers that are adjusted slightly depending on season and results. Some years back I attempted to use well water to top off the ponds. The resultant fish kill made me abandon that approach.

 

The main PITA is that, while I have long since replaced the Corning glass electric cooktop in the main kitchen, with a gas cooktop, the wall oven in there is electric (GE P*7) so I do not use it during the TOU hours. The wall oven is built in nicely, so it would not be easy to replace with a gas unit. Plus the P*7  is a good design and works well. This is why I'd like to have a gas range in the patio kitchen, to be able to roast or bake stuff for dinners as needed without incurring higher costs.
 
I check with my neighbor and he said that the KA range they removed and which I'm planning on installing here, does work, but all they used was the top burners. He didn't know if the oven worked or not, but said his wife might know.

 

In any case, I'll be hanging onto the other two gas ranges just in case, as well as the Frigidaire Compact 30 I plan on removing.

 

One complication may be that the current Compact30 range is a drop-in, I think, whereas the replacements are all slide in. I remember looking at that years ago and determining that it would no big deal to removed the three or so inches of lower paneling to allow a slide in to fit. More measurements in store...

 
 
Might be a little more tricky, due to the current drop-in cabinetry. I'm gonna have to measure the distance between the brick flooring in the patio kitchen and the counter-top, to make sure it will all fit. Might have to yank/saw some bricks. We'll see.

 
 
A drop-in range is very different that a slide-in model, they usually do not interchange with out modifications to cabinets etc.

 

Unless the FD is in bad condition from being outdoors all these years I would either just keep it or look for the much more energy efficient self-cleaning FD Compact 30.

 

If you are changing to gas to reduce electricity consumption look for a gas range  with spark ignition like a WP built SC range.

 

The hot surface igniter that these two gas ranges use 400 watts of power the entire time the oven burner is on, the WP design uses around 10 watts of power when operating.

 

Using the SC cycle on an electric oven should not throw most people into a higher rate level.

 

The SC cycle uses around 2-6 KWs of power, about the same as drying one load of laundry in an electric dryer.

 

If you are foolish enough to run the SC cycle while the A/C is in use you may add 1-2 KWs of power use to remove the heat from your home.

 

John L.
 
By "FD" I'm assuming you mean "FrigiDaire", right?

 

In any case, it's in excellent condition. The patio it's on is fully enclosed, with a full roof. Other than some ancient staining from leaky skylights, which are not over the range location, there is no moisture intrusion in to the patio kitchen.

 

I just got back from my measurements. The width and depth of the GE and KA slide in ranges look like they will work with the existing counter top. The kick-panel under the FD drop in range looks like it's a 2x4, which I'm assuming is part of a frame holding up the range. I'll know more once I pull the FD range.

 

The Modern Maid looks like it's a drop-in design, quite a bit shorter than the other two.

 

There is a slight slant of the brick flooring away from the counter-top area, which makes sense for a patio. The wall against which the kitchen is arrayed in a line is the outer wall of the east side of the home. The far wall of the patio kitchen is an interesting array. There's about four feet of rock garden raised above the floor level, out to the property line. at the property line is a line of jalousie windows, all of which can be opened, with good screening on the outside. That's about four feet high. On top of that is a slanted portion that meets the edge of the patio roof, about 1 foot below it. From there is about a foot of translucent plastic, which has aged very well. Then the edge of the patio roof itself with a gutter etc. There is some water leakage from rain in spots on the framing around the outer wall/window feature, but any water winds up in the rock garden which is raised with a brick barrier between it and patio brick floor. On top of that, due to the slight slant of the brick patio floor, any water can easily drain out of the patio area down the intersection of the rock garden and the patio floor, to a chink in the brick which obviously was put there to assist in draining. Back when there was far less clutter in the patio, I was able to hose down the patio floor and confirm that the drainage is all what it needs to be.  I suppose a photo would help explain all this.

 

In any case, I have to do several things before I start replacing the FD electric range:

 

1) Confirm there's an extension of the city gas line to the range area

2) Pull the FD and make more observations/measurements of the nook it's occupying

3) Figure out the best spot for the extension of the city gas line to the replacement gas range. Obviously it needs to be place where one can access it as needed while the range is installed. Perhaps a big key?

4) Remeasure each range replacement candidate to see which one will be the best fit.

5) Adjust accordingly.

 

As far as oven electricity consumption, I didn't see anything in the KA manual about 400 watt burner igniter. Don't have a manual for the GE or Modern Maid ranges yet. It would still be less than trying to bake something with 2000 watt electric elements, I would think.

 

 

 

 
 
Here's a fun video on how to replace the oven igniter on the KA/etc style ranges. Hint: they must glow white hot or oven (or broiler) won't work. I guess that's the 400 watts John mentioned. Now I'm curious as to how Modern Maid does it!

 

 

 
Here's the installation manual for the KA Superba slide in convection range. Note that it only says a 10 amp 120 volt properly polarized AC circuit is needed. Doesn't list the wattage of the oven/broiler igniters, but 400 watts that John mentioned seems about right for getting them "white hot". I did a little more searching an a replacement igniter costs around $100. Yikes.

 

Will be taking a closer look at the Modern Maid... specifically how much juice it uses to ignite the oven and burner.

 

I sort of miss the good old days when stoves/ranges had pilot lights!

 

https://data2.manualslib.com/pdf4/8...ng_range.pdf?2796eaaedb97b20754004e54232b25f6
 
Best Of 3 Available Used Gas Ranges

Hi Rich, The MM may use a spark ignition system for the oven in which case it uses almost 0 power to light and stay burning, the other big advantage of spark oven ignition is it can be match lit like the top burners if electrical power is ever lost, however most MMS also used the hot surface igniters like the other two.

 

The MM is more likely to be a true drop-in design if the oven is not a true SCing oven.

 

John L.
 
What does "a true SCing oven" mean?

SC stands for Self Cleaning Rich, as opposed to perhaps a Continuous Cleaning oven.

BTW, I had a Whirlpool electric range in a rental in ‘75 that had a Continuous Cleaning oven and I liked that feature very much. The oven surface was rough, rather than smooth and somehow the grease didn’t bake onto the oven walls. I just had to wipe off the oven wall surface periodically to keep it clean. No chemical fumes or smoke to contend with when cleaning the oven. I wish they still offered this feature.

Eddie
 
I recognize that cream colored KitchenAid range, I have one of the smooth top electric models with the identical controls that John brought out a couple decades ago. It has had issues with the touch controls being marginally responsive for the entire time. Even a control board replacement never made it right. Other than that issue it works alright and I do like the convection feature.

In a way I wish mine was gas, because then I'd get rid of it right away and stop living with the marginal touch controls. I wonder how the gas model self cleaning works (or doesn't)?
 
I wouldn't say the KA Superba Range is "cream colored". It is plain white, as is the one in my workshop.

I took a peek at the Modern Maid oven igniter. I cannot say for sure, but it looks like it's supposed to glow. I'll have to plug it in and turn on the control to see I hear any telltale clicking.
 
OK, did some measurements, with electric hookup but no gas hookup.

The Modern Maid drop-in range has spark style burner igniters. All work. It has bright orange glowing coils for oven and broiler starting. The oven coil uses about 320 watts. The broiler coil uses about 350 watts.

The 30"GE Profile slide in range also has sparking burner igniters. All work. I could not test the oven and broiler because it's giving an error, saying "LOCK" and not allowing me to test the oven and broiler.

The 30" KA Superba slide in range also has spark type burner igniters. All seem to work. The oven igniter uses about 350 watts. The broiler igniter uses about 400 watts. I didn't check the color of either. All the touch controls seem to work just fine.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can clear the error on the GE. It might mean a control lock. I tested the control lock process on the KA Superba; was able to lock and unlock it.

Perhaps someone familiar with the 30" GE Profile slide in range can say what the "Lock" error on the unit means? I have no manual for it.

Addendum: Oh wait, I did find the manual for the GE Profile 30" slide in range. In fact I has posted a link for it here. I'll just need to review it.

[this post was last edited: 9/14/2021-22:19]
 
If you are foolish enough to run the SC cycle while the A/C

If you ever have water damage happen, self cleaning or doing a lot of cooking while running the central air conditioner is a great way to dry out a house. The cost of a few KW of electric power is just a few dollars that can prevent a lot of mold and stop a lot of costly damage from dampness.
 
Best Of 3 Available Used Gas Ranges

Hi Rich, The MM you ave does have hot surface ignition, it probably uses round igniters and these use a little less than 400 watts as you found out, the KA has the flat igniters that use closer to 400 watts, the GE range could have either type.

 

The GE range may have a bad Electronic Range Control [ ERC ], if so I would set it out for recycling.

 

The KA may be viable but is probably the most troublesome of the three.

 

Because the MM does not have a computer control system it might become the best choice of these 3 ranges, I personally always like a true SCing oven however gas SCing ovens never work as well as electric SCing ovens because they have a very hard time getting up to the 800F + temperature required to do a good job.

 

Best choies still is to keep the FD Compact 30 and put solar panels on the house.

 

John 
 
John,

Thanks for the tips.

I did a little more searching, and found the following link.

https://www.hunker.com/13408976/how-to-fix-my-ge-profile-range-that-says-blinks-locked

Unfortunately none of that seems to clear the red flashing "LOCK" message on the display panel.

So yeah, it probably needs a new control board of some sort. Probably why it was free, LOL.

At this point, the Modern Maid appears to be the best fit.

Solar panels? Yeah, some day.
 

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