Really want a vintage gas range but afraid....

[combo52]

Residential natural gas prices

Have barely changed at all in the last decade, they are regulated after all which protects you from the swings that you see in those charts.

They’ve actually come down a little bit over the last two months in fact.

My natural gas bill for my house averages between 70 and $80 a month a year round, I have six gas dryers a gas hot tub heater to gas furnaces to gas water heaters one gas range outside.

I can only imagine what it would be if everything were electric cost that is.

John L

 

[bradfordwhite]

Just realized those prices are for the commodities trading market. When traders on "Wallstreet" buy and sell commodities like natural gas futures.  <span style="font-size: 12pt;">Those are like wholesale prices.</span>

 

Consumer delivered prices are different.

 

While in fact consumer prices have been trending up since 2015 for Natural Gas, they haven't exactly doubled.... unless one looks at the monthly costs.

 

Are these quotes from the U.S. Energy Information Administration what consumers see on their bills?

 

A year ago January the price was $9.68 but by August the cost was almost $21  ?

 

I haven't had gas service since 2006 for, what was then, a 10 year old home in Franklin, MA. All I remember is it was about $283 for the gas for the last January bill. That was with a new 92% efficient gas furnace.  I never looked at the details of the bills back then.  During the summer months the gas bill was very little as I only had a gas water heater and stove and kept the water heater a timer. 

 

It sounds like you have signed up for budget billing which averages out the anticipated cost of gas service for a 12 month period so you get a flat amount during the preceding period.  And of course just having a number of appliances doesn't mean they cost anything to own if they aren't being used frequently.  Doing three loads of drying in a gas dryer isn't going to cost any more if it's all done in one dryer or if each load is done in another dryer.

 

 

----

 

Anyway,  I need pictures of these used prospective midwestern stoves that someone who can't deliver them, or install them, and isn't quite sure what to get.... is anxious to run out and purchase during this frigid month of January. 

 

It is interesting that one would make the statement about a stove: "...But...they scare me because they have continuously burning pilot lights. If one stops burning somehow I'm terrified of it blowing up. Not so much the cooktop burners as much as the oven. I once lived in an apartment with an old gas range and relit the burners with only marginal fear. The oven though...it is in my head that if the oven pilot goes out, the oven fills with gas..."

but then anxiously pursue having one installed.  The average daily masochist is preferred I suppose to other personalities.  Life is just an abundant variety.

 

Anyway, the stove pictured above looks clean.

 

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n3010us3m.htm

 

[steved]

Residential natural gas prices

Our natural gas supplier, National Grid, has raised the price per therm from .42 in Dec 2020 to .61 this month. No bargain there! Thank god our Trane furnace is 97% efficent.

 

[weed30]

<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Anyway,  I need pictures of these used prospective midwestern stoves that someone who can't deliver them, or install them, and isn't quite sure what to get.... is anxious to run out and purchase during this frigid month of January. </span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> It is interesting that one would make the statement about a stove: "...But...they scare me because they have continuously burning pilot lights. If one stops burning somehow I'm terrified of it blowing up. Not so much the cooktop burners as much as the oven. I once lived in an apartment with an old gas range and relit the burners with only marginal fear. The oven though...it is in my head that if the oven pilot goes out, the oven fills with gas..."</span>

<span style="font-size: 10pt;">but then anxiously pursue having one installed.  The average daily masochist is preferred I suppose to other personalities.  Life is just an abundant variety.</span>

 

<strong><strong>Really dude? I get that you are against gas, but check your condescension. I specifically posted here to learn about vintage gas range safety rather than rushing into a purchase, and my question was thoroughly and politely answered by others.
</strong></strong>

 

[bradfordwhite]

It's not condescension but merely observation.

 

You brought forth your concerns, and you've received numerous credible opinions and advice.

 

AND...you've been a member since 2010.  You know how we roll.

 

 

Any pics?

Have you decided what your going to get?  We want to support your decision otherwise we wouldn't have bothered to comment.

 

[kimball455]

Hi ..

Just over two years ago a ground fault interrupter with nothing attached decided to set my house on fire. Here are pictures. The first is the remains of the GFI that started the fire. The others are the kitchen the day after the fire. This resulted in the entire house being gutted and rebuild. Even though the fire was limited to the kitchen, the entire house was damaged by smoke and soot. Just about everything, including a large number of antiques along with a number of vintage small appliances and electric fans, went in the dumpster. I was out of my house for just over 18 months.

I have had gas cooking for almost my entire life other than when I lived in an area where gas was not available. My home in Cape May has always had gas heating and cooking. Never had an issue with the pilot light even when I was using the 1930 era stove that was in the house when I got it. Today I have a dual fuel range. I prefer an electric oven. Heat is a condensing gas boiler for hot water baseboard and domestic hot water. I have a gas fireplace. It does not have a standing pilot, it has a remote electric start and a battery backup. Anything can go wrong when you least expect it. In this case, what is supposed to be a safety device really went wrong. Talking with a forensic architect I learned that while very uncommon, GFI can start fires.  The restoration of my house, fortunately, covered by insurance, was $650,000.  I essentialy have an 1865 house with a 2021 interior. This was after I did a major remodel in 2010 where I replaced all of the major systems, HVAC, electric, etc. along with a new kitchen. 

 

Harry

 

[bradfordwhite]

I'm not sure ...

"...I essentia(l)ly have an 1865 house with a 2021 interior."

 

Are you stating this as if it were a problem, or a benefit? 

 

Many people already <span style="text-decoration: underline;">have</span> the "<span style="font-size: 12pt;">1865 house", or older house, part ...</span>

<span style="font-size: 12pt;">but many can only dream of having a rare freak accident happen that would allow them to have a $650,000 insurance paid "</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">2021 interior".</span>

 

<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Frankly, it almost sounds like lightening struck the house.  I'll bet the insurance covered your hotel and 18 months of rent somewhere?  I'm wishing I was YOU now.   lol.</span>

 

[weed30]

kimball455 - whoa! That looks terrifying. I'm sorry you lost everything, but glad you are OK. My old neighbor's house caught fire and was a total loss as well. Main fire in the utility room but the entire house filled with smoke, soot, and water from the fire dept. I went inside a few days afterwards and had to walk back out just a few minutes later due to the lingering toxic fumes from whatever had burned.

 

[ea56]

Re: Reply #65

I don’t know anyone in their right mind that would welcome a catastrophic fire just to get a $650,000 remodel. That kind of disaster would be totally life upsetting, certainly not worth the upset to your life.

Here in Sonoma County many unfortunate home owners know first hand and only too well what its like to lose everything in a flash due to wildfires. Believe me, I’ve not heard of a single one of these unfortunate souls that was thankful for getting a new home after these tragic fires.

Harry, (kimball455) I’m so sorry that you had to go through the burning of your home this way. I’ll bet that given the choice you’d have gladly kept what you had and avoided the remodel. Must have lost many irreplaceable things. Thank god you didn’t lose your life.

Eddie

 

[kimball455]

Hi ... Well, yes it is nice having the second remodel in 10 years but the loss of both physical items and some of my cats in the fire was not fun. Thanks to smoke alarms I got out of the house with only a minor burn on my arm. The fire started around 11 PM, I had gone to bed. My house is a contributing house to the Cape May National Landmark designation. One reason for the cost was any restoration (exterior) had to meet preservation standards. This added greatly to the cost. For example, no vinyl or any 'modern' material anything.  HVAC has to be hidden with lattice, that kind of thing. It all adds to the expense. Windows had to be true divided 6 over 6 lights in wood. All of this, as I said greatly increased the cost. All of the work had to be approved by the Historic Preservation Commission. Fortunately, I did not have to do a presentation to the entire Commission, by selecting appropriate materials and designs approval could be by committee saving both me and the contractor time and money. 

I found a picture of the gas stove that was in the house when I got it ... this is from the web. A Magic Chief with a standing pilot for the surface units and a manually lit and controlled oven. There was no pilot light for the oven, you lit the burner with a match. There was no temp control on the over, you adjusted the flame the same way that you adjusted the surface units.  With the walls ripped out it was interesting to see the original but retired knob and tubing for electricity. There was even a wasp nest hiding in the wall. Here's a look at the exterior after the restoration. Yes, that is a FRAGILE Leg Lamp in the window.

 

Harry

 

 

[kimball455]

Hi ... Well, yes it is nice having the second remodel in 10 years but the loss of both physical items and some of my cats in the fire was not fun. Thanks to smoke alarms I got out of the house with only a minor burn on my arm. The fire started around 11 PM, I had gone to bed. My house is a contributing house to the Cape May National Landmark designation. One reason for the cost was any restoration (exterior) had to meet preservation standards. This added greatly to the cost. For example, no vinyl or any 'modern' material anything.  HVAC has to be hidden with lattice, that kind of thing. It all adds to the expense. Windows had to be true divided 6 over 6 lights in wood. All of this, as I said greatly increased the cost. All of the work had to be approved by the Historic Preservation Commission. Fortunately, I did not have to do a presentation to the entire Commission, by selecting appropriate materials and designs approval could be by committee saving both me and the contractor time and money. 

I found a picture of the gas stove that was in the house when I got it ... this is from the web. A Magic Chief with a standing pilot for the surface units and a manually lit and controlled oven. There was no pilot light for the oven, you lit the burner with a match. There was no temp control on the over, you adjusted the flame the same way that you adjusted the surface units.  With the walls ripped out it was interesting to see the original but retired knob and tubing for electricity. There was even a wasp nest hiding in the wall. Here's a look at the exterior after the restoration. Yes, that is a FRAGILE Leg Lamp in the window.

 

Harry

 

 

[bradfordwhite]

"Thank god you didn’t lose your life."

See that's the important thing.

Sure most people would probably deny all the negative stuff but...
when it gets down to it....
I've no doubt a lot of people are better off after such a disaster.

It's like when a teenager ran into my 4 y.o. Toyota a number of years ago. I bought it new, paid cash for it. It had 61,000 miles on it and running perfect. It was the longest I ever held a vehicle.

BANG at a busy intersection in Hopkinton, MA., they hit the front corner and ultimately the insurance co. totalled the vehicle I paid $19K for. I went into shock. Did I want to lose it? NO!

Then the insurance co. gave me a check for $18,500. More than I imagined. It took the edge off shall we say. I would never have got that by selling the 4 y.o. vehicle. I wasn't hurt. Just a bit of shock. It was worth it.

Be honest now, if you could get $650K worth of Insurance paid work done to your home,
you'd have a certain giddiness.

 

[kimball455]

Hello Again ... 

 

One important thing to know from this is should a disaster ever happen get a private adjustor to do all of the interaction with the insurance company. The adjuster brought in professionals for everything. One specialist did the loss of items inventory. It was over 100 pages and it even listed the cat litter pans and assigned a value to each.  Yes, as WEED30 said, the smoke and soot go everywhere and essentially destroy everything. A kind of mist hung in the house for several days. You cannot clean that fine particulate matter away, it is in everything even if there was no fire or water damage to the item. As an example, I tried to clean some Corningware by putting it in the dishwasher. That did not work. A very high level of detail is needed to get the most from your claim. The adjuster will help you with getting the necessary contractor(s) for cleanup and restoration. The adjuster will do everything to get you everything that the insurance company owes you for repair/restoration etc. In any case, it was not fun. Here in the Cape May area, annual or long term rentals are very difficult to find, you can make more money with less hassle with weekly rentals during season. Fortunately, my partner Ralph (some of you have met him) has a cottage near Cape May and I was able to stay there for the duration of the work. The post I removed was a duplication. 

 

Harry

 

 

 

[bradfordwhite]

What a cute house. And look at how clean the shell is.
Was it like this everywhere?
Were you able to at least use drywall on the inside and insulate the exterior walls?

Yeah, I would relive your tragedy and outcome. lol.

---

It's like the WTC lawsuit and all that stuff that happened after 9/11.

Joan Rivers (may the broad RIP, lol) did a bit based on the wives of the paramedics that died and received compensation. She said something like "what if it were discovered that they actually didn't die, but you had to give back the settlement as a result? You know THAT they'd TAKE THE MONEY! They're not giving that check back." LOL.

 

[bradfordwhite]

OK

That's IT. That is IT!

"...my partner Ralph (some of you have met him) has a cottage near Cape May and I was able to stay there for the duration of the work."

And, AND this adorable man
has a partner
who lives nearby
and has his own, no doubt, cute cottage.

OHHHHH!

Did you just come here to brighten my day with your sunny stories of optimism? Thank-you for that. You are GOALS sir.

 

[askolover]

Statistically, gas is safer.  You smell it LOOOOONG before there's enough to burn or explode.  Electric wires can be melting inside your walls or breaker box for years without being noticed.  My house was all electric when it was built in 1956.  I believe it was the second owner who worked for the gas company.  Apparently at some point all that electric wattage took its toll and melted the wires in the power box.  He took out everything with high wattage draw and switched to gas.  The highest power draw here now is the central AC in the summer.  My old Caloric had pilots.  Occasionally if I had the kitchen window open and a good breeze blew through it would blow the pilots out.  I'd smell it soon enough and just relight them. 

 

[robbinsandmyers]

" If electric rates fluctuated like they apparently do for NG I'd have wet panties too. "

 



<strong> Here in CT The United Illuminating Co raised rates 50% for homeowners several years ago and a little more than that for commercial users. And they got away with it, even raising them again a few years ago.  I wouldnt call those fluctuations. More like anal violations. On the other hand The Southern Conn Gas Co hasnt raised their rates anywhere near what UI has in the last decade. I'll keep my gas stove, gas hot water heater, and gas furnace thank you.</strong>

 

[bradfordwhite]

Thank goodness with cheap solar and efficiency strides people can make their own electric.

It's good when rates get raised, regardless of what the fuel source. It gets those who are lazy and complacent about efficiency to <span style="text-decoration: underline;">stop wasting</span>.

The way some people act you'd think they thought they were entitled to cheap gasoline, cheap electric, cheap natural gas. Especially here in the U.S.

No, we aren't. Sure it's nice to have affordable rates but....not entitled.

I can't wait to see a certain sector scramble when gasoline prices go up.
"oh oh-h, my unneeded bulky SUV and stupid 4 wheel drive truck. I can't afford to wastefully drive it and show off"

lol.

No need to worry. Driving a heap of fossil fuel burning scrap metal on wheels isn't showing off anything but stupidity.

 

Electric is the way forward.  It's abundant and easily made. Gas production however is seriously in decline.  Pinning one's hopes and future on powering the few appliances it does, is foolish.

The numbers show that to be true.  It's like coal or wood.  It's over.  Declining.

 

But you can collect old appliances even if they used gas.  I'll take mine in a plethora of colors.  Nice display pieces.

 

Remember these?  People collect them.  A family friend had something like this outfitted with chrome screws as if in use the stinky air polluter would maintain that shine.  Get real.

 

[sarahperdue]

New renovation?

Hi Harry,

I am very sorry you had to go through a house fire and all of the awful things that come with it.

Our home here in Tuscaloosa was in the path of the 2011 tornadoes. We only had moderate damage while the house next door and many in our neighborhood were completely destroyed.

Our house had been flooding for many years as a result of the city's failure to maintain infrastructure, and there was a part of me that wished it had also been demolished. Every time I had that thought, I did a mental inventory of the irreplaceable things that would or could have been lost. I realized I was grateful it hadn't been. There is a better chance of salvaging things from a tornado damaged home than a fire, and I am still grateful ours wasn't demolished.

I do wish I'd had your advice about an independent adjuster. I'm not sure if such angles abide in Alabama, but many of my neighbors and I left a lot of money on the table because we didn't know how to negotiate the system. I'm am glad you were able to get an insurance settlement that took care of everything.

Sarah

 

[wayupnorth]

My 4WD truck is NOT stupid, it is a necessity here. There is no way I could charge an electric vehicle without a major investment in electrical upgrades plus where it is so cold here they loose their charge quicker, like my neighbors Prius does. You can toot your electric everything all you want but I am going to stay with oil, gas and an electric bill under $40 each month.