Refrigerators in cold garages

[mattl]

Got a question/issue. My cousin has a 3 year old Frigidaire refrigerator that I had borrowed and used for a few months, no problems. She is staying with her sister across the state and they were running out of space in their frig so she wanted it back. We loaded it into the Yukon and off it went. did not work when it got there, after an hour on the phone diagnosing it it turned out to be stuck in defrost mode.

Well, a few days later I get a frantic call, that it stopped working and stuff was spoiling. I could not come up with an answer this time, and she discussed shipping it back to me to see if I could fix it. Anyway time passed and I asked about it and I found out it was working now. I asked how it was fixed and was told they moved it in the house.

After that long preamble is there any reason a late model frig would not work in a cold Michigan garage? Several people have told me that it's true, and I can't think of any reason being in the cold would affect operation. Am I wrong?

I am more prone to believe it's a loose connection that caused the problem.

 

[seamusuk]

Its true..

We have been getting a lot of calls about this...

It may be different in the US but most fridges/fridge freezers over here are only designed to work between 12-32 deg C(approx 42- 92 deg f)

Put them in a conservatory,garage of even a cold kitchen and voila defrosted food

Seamus

 

[toggleswitch2]

Actually, there may be a different sort of problem with refrigerators in garages.

When the main control (the one with the the "OFF" position) is in the refirgerator compartment/section (rather than the freezer compartment)the WHOLE UNIT won't run long enough. When the refirgerator is so easily satisfied-- it's very easy to hit 40*F (5*C +/-)or below in a cold garage-- the freezer and it's contents defrost and run "hot". Those units that have the control with the "OFF" postion controling the freezer do better in a cold place. BTW the "OTHER" control i.e. without the "OFF" postion is merely damper that changes the ratio of cold air from the evaporatior coil to each compartment.

Moral of the story: Refrigerator/freezers for cold, unheated spaces need to have the main control in the freezer. (Or don't rely on the freezer).

See linkie for a refrigerator especially engineered for a garage.

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=624756&CCAID=FROOGLEUA624756

 

[gadgetgary]

A bit off subject

Toggles and I found this in my local Sears Hardware store.
Never knew such an item existed.
Pretty kewl...all refrigerator or all freezer.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_04621712000P

 

[panthera]

Thermostats for

refrigerators are designed to operate within a specific ambient temperature range.

Mechanical thermostats can be ordered which will work better in the colder/warmer temperatures of a garage than in the relatively constant and limited range of a kitchen.

Electronic thermostats from some manufacturers can be adjusted to reflect the ambient temperature.

If this relatively new refrigerator has a mechanical thermostat, she can have one for the ambient swings found in a garage installed (or do it herself if she is so inclined). If it is electronic, it may or may not be possible depending on the knowledge and competence of the local repair department. I asked the Sears in-duh-vi-duals in Fort Collins three years ago about that, 'cause I wanted to put a deep-freeze in a shed which went from sub-zero to nearly 80F, they either hadn't a clue or couldn't have cared less. The GE customer service operator you find on the box on their cheap freezers from China knew exactly what I wanted and referred me to the right people at once.
Go figure.

Here's a link to a device which extends the ambient range for some refrigerators in a garage, tho' certainly not to the extent you'd need for Minnesota, unless her garage doesn't fall below 34F.
http://www.apwagner.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_622&products_id=33485

 

[panthera]

Sorry,

I meant Michigan. Which, I am given to understand, can also be a might bit cool at times.

 

[passatdoc]

all fridge or all freezer.

Wow. Lots of friends here keep second fridge-freezer combinations in the garage, but the garage temperature here would hit the mid 40s only on the coldest winter nights. So I've never heard any problems associated with them. Never even thought of that, but if the fridge set temp is satisfied, of course there isn't enough cold for the freezer. That convertible Whirlpool looked nice, particularly with the upper compartment having an option to be a fridge or freezer.

Frigidaire has long sold 17 cu ft all fridge or all freezer units, which can be placed side by side (freezer hinged on left, fridge hinged on right) to mimic the "twin Sub Zero look" provided you have 64 inches of space for them. They even offer a trim kit that fits above the units to mimic the overhead condenser of a true built-in. The nice thing about this arrangement is that it costs maybe $2500 with the trim, vs. over $10K for twin Sub Zeros. And if one unit breaks and can't be repaired, the replacement is $1000, not $8000.

http://www.frigidaire.com/products/refrigerators/all_refrigerator/Large_Upright/prod_PLRU1778E.asp

 

[magic clean]

In addition to

the possibility of erratic compartment temperatures, there is an opportunity for compressor problems when a standard refrigerator is located in a too cold area. Refrigerant in liquid state (instead of vapor) can circulate into the suction port of the compressor..........leading to system failure.

The garage refrigerator has components to compensate for the influence of too cold ambient temperatures and maintain sealed system integrity

L.P.

 

[toggleswitch2]

.......Which may include a crankcase and/or compressor heater as is found in heatpumps.

And the reason a liquid in the suction line will cause damage is that liquids are not compressable, IIRC.

 

[panthera]

Toggles,

There aren't too many things harder than my head, but liquids in a closed system are one.
You recall rightly.

Funny, how many people will argue that one. Uh, the liquids, not my head.

My parent's heat-pump/air-conditioning compressor has built-in heating and the idiots who installed it got into considerable trouble for not insulating the lines to it properly. Since their part of the 'States gets down below -40 (no need for F or C at that temp!) you do things right or they don't survive the winter.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Better (engineered) refrigerators havea little "heat bypass" that takes hot compressed gas (post compressor) and uses the heat from the line (before the heat is released by the condenser coil into the room or elsewhwere) to "superheat" the suction line before it goes into the compressor. This prevents damage from liquid refrigerant entering the compressor. It basically looks like a thin copper wire (pipe, actually not much wider than a capillary tube) wound around the evatorator's suction line (which is fatter and wider), just before headng into the compressor.

 

[goatfarmer]

Electrolux (Frigidaire) sells a kit that you can add to "warm" the thermostat. A small heater, that's designed for use with refrigerators used in garages. I saw one last Friday at the parts store, I'm not sure how it wires up,or how well it works.

 

[magic clean]

Steve

you are speaking of a heat exchanger. It is a capillary tube that is brazed onto the suction line & you are correct in that the relatively cool suction line (carrying low pressure vapor) absorbs heat from the warm capillary (high pressure liquid); increasing system efficiency.

In the situation noted; with the very cold ambient temperatures, the trouble is; there is not enough heat to fully vaporize the refrigerant in the low side. This can lead to compressor valve/piston lubrication problems.

The garage refrigerator has an in-line accumulator-muffler in the suction line. This acts as a reservoir for any liquid refrigerant, thus avoiding slugging of the compressor.

L.P.

 

[toggleswitch2]

I stand corrected and learn every day. Thank you for taking to time educate!

 

[panthera]

Goatfarmer,

That was the link I posted to - a small heating unit. It has molded plugs, I would guess it plugs into the ice-maker supply.

Do you or does anyone know whether Electrolux has improved Frigidaire quality?

 

[sudsmaster]

Sears, for a while at least, also sold a top freezer fridge unit specifically designed for use in unheated garages. It had diamond plate type exterior, and big casters for moving it around with ease (although they did look a bit tippy to me).

I believe it was called the Gladiator Chillerator line (please, no jokes).Still available elsewhere, apparently.

They also have a "Freezerator" with the lower section being a dedicated freezer, and the smaller upper section capable of being either a freezer or a refrigerator.

http://www.abt.com/product/14496.html


http://www.abt.com/product/17773.html

 

[DADoES]

The Gladiator line, the whole thing, garage storage and all, is a Whirlpool product.

http://www.gladiatorgw.com/

 

[mattl]

Interesting discussion....

Now it make sense to me. The ambient temp was most likely in the 20's when the problem developed. It mostly went down from there. I guess it would not need to run much at the temp and the freezer would not keep as cold, since the control is in the frig section.

Looks like many of us are in for a cold week. It hovered around 0 at night much of December here which I'm sure added to the problem. Now it looks like we are in for some sub-zero weather, not looking forward to it.

You can certainly learn a lot here!

 

[toggleswitch2]

I wonder if the refrigerator engineered for the garage includes a heater to PREVENT freezing in the refrigerator compartment.

Must read the specs.....

 

[magic clean]

"I wonder

if the refrigerator engineered for the garage includes a heater to PREVENT freezing in the refrigerator compartment?"

As a matter of fact it does!

L.P.

 

[toggleswitch2]

:-o

I missed my caling in life, *LOL*

 

[sudsmaster]

I guess I shouldn't mention at this point that the daytime temps in the SF Bay Area this week have been in the 70's.

Many from out of state are surprised that some of our nicest weather is during the winter. We generally have a mini heat wave in the Dec-Jan-Feb time frame. Usually lasts only a week or two, and then it's back to rain and gloom. Although the nights are generally cold, last night was positively balmy with an offshore breeze coming in from the east. My indoor cat loved it (she occasionally begs to be let outside the front door). That plus the very full moon.