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The '64 Dodge

The family two doors down owned the oldest Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial dealership in town and their youngest son was one of my best friends growing up. He was a few years older so had his license before anyone else in the neighborhood.

His first car was a '64 Dodge 330, plain white with blue interior and small V-8 -- but it could still move -- and had push-button automatic transmission. We burned a lot of gas in that car (he got it free at the dealership) on weekend nights driving wherever the roads would take us. When I first had my license in 1972, he and I took the Dodge to L.A. That was my first long-haul experience behind the wheel, on U.S. 99 when it still had oleanders in the center divider.

I get nostalgic every time I see a '64 Dodge regardless of the model.
 
My first car was a '64 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 hardtop coupe. In "Anniversary Gold". Slant six, 225 ci, pushbutton tranny. Bought it used in 1976. Still have it, it still runs, but haven't driven it for a decade. It rides nice what with the torsion bar front suspension and the size is appropriate for today (it would probably count as a full size car today. in 1964, it was a compact).

I drove that thing a lot back in the day. Up to Portland, down to LA. Even did some off-roading in it. On purpose.
 
Here's my 1964 Dodge 440 sedan

This is an original car with 53,000 miles on it. It has a 318 V8 with pushbutton automatic. A very dependable car - this old girl starts in the dead of winter after sitting in a cold garage for two months. Surpisingly, it also gets pretty good milage - about 20 mpg. Since this photo was taken I put a set of nice white-wall tires on her, and she really looks pretty.

kevin313++10-14-2010-12-35-29.jpg
 
Kevin, I have no doubt about your 440's reliability. What a sweet car with only 53K on it! She must look real pretty now with whitewalls.

I think my friend John's car may have had full sized wheel covers, but other than that, was much like yours.

Enjoy her![this post was last edited: 10/14/2010-14:30]
 
That '64 Dodge is stunning!!

I always thought the 318 had the best combination of performance, torque, gas mileage, and durability. I believe Chrysler STILL uses that engine to this very day!
 
When I was growing up one of the neighbors had one of those 57' Olds. It was pink & gray in color. But with all that chrome, it really looked heavy.

One thing I remember is that on the transmission drive order they had P-N-D-S-L-R. What did the S stand for? I always though it stood for Second, but most people said it stood for Super.
 
What did the S stand for? I always though it stood for Second, but most people said it stood for Super.

"S" stood for Super, which is 3rd gear, allowing 1-2-3 shifts. Remember, these were 4 speed transmissions.

61-64 used a AWFUL thing known as a Slim Jim, positively TERRIBLE

X2! Most people wrongly associate the older and better super hydro with the slim jim. The slim jim was a complete POS! At least Pontiac was smart enough to keep the the super hydro in Bonnevilles and Starchiefs until '64, and Cadillac held on to it on ALL models through '64. I believe Olds abandoned the super hydro altogether by '61.

The dual band/dual coupling 4 speed hydro was the most efficient automatic transmission available until TCCLU (torque converter clutch lock up) converters were used, beginning in '80. Well ahead of their time!
 
Well ahead of their time!

No kidding. In fact, I was sort of surprised that GM had a 4 speed automatic so early. I always had the feeling that automatics were 3 speed until relatively recently.

If only GM--and the rest of Detroit for that matter--had kept on with products like that! Maybe Detroit's fortunes have fared better.
 
"Surpisingly, it also gets pretty good milage - about 20 mpg."

That's amazing! Every car I've had has been the 4 cylinder, front wheel drive type. The best gas mileage I've had to date was probably about 30MPG (measured, "real world.").
 
Gas Mileage!

I have never seen a 318 that didnt get around 20 mpg,no...this 318 is not the same as post 67 models, they are a small block, wedge head motor, the original 318 came out in 57 and was used thru 66, it was a big block motor with polyspherical heads and solid lifters,and was just about indestructable, as for the 4 speed hydramatic, its first version came out on Oldsmobiles in about 39 or 40, Im not sure exactly, but was used, with a few changes thru 55, then the "Dual Coupling" model came out in 56, it was the first one to have a park position,this was used thru 63 on Cadillics and thru 64 on several other vehicles, but Olds used that awful slim jim as did most but not all pontiacs,did you know that Rolls Royce used a liscence built hydramatic for years and years, as did Lincoln, Hudson,Kaiser and also some GMC and Chevrolet trucks from the 50s.
 
Chrysler products!

Give me those pushbuttons and full time power steering ANYDAY, nothing equals the handling of a torsion bar suspension either, if you look under todays cars, a lot of them use torsion bars now, and Chryslers center plane brakes were much better than the competition,also they had the first practical disc brakes, " Crosley had the very first but they were not well engineered..But the power steering is the biggest difference,you can park a Chrysler with your little finger, some people say it is too sensitive, but I love it,one finger will control the car in any situation.
 
Disc Brakes and Gearboxes . . .

In the very early '50s Chrysler offered a brake manufactured by a supplier named Ausco under the patent of an engineer named Lambert. It used two discs with friction material contained inside a cast-iron drum, with the discs connected to a ball-bearing and ramp mechanism which pushed them out into the inner sides of the drum. It isn't a modern disc brake by a long shot, which uses stationary pads on each side of a rotating disc that grab the disc when hydraulic pressure is applied. The Ausco-Lambert brake was a very rare option on Chryslers for a few years and then was discontinued due to problems. Most of the Ausco-Lambert equipped cars were converted back to conventional drum brakes. I have been told by the owner of an Ausco-Lambert equipped car that the brakes can be made to work reliably and adequately by modifications to the ball bearing actuation system, but the originals tended to suffer severe corrosion problems. One odd characteristic of the Ausco-Lambert design is that it was self-energizing, like drum brakes, which means that as the brake is applied it gets progressively easier to apply, leading to grabbiness under some conditions. One of the big advantages of modern disc brakes is that they don't self-energize and so are easier to modulate in panic stops than drums. Chrysler didn't care to spend any money or time developing the system, nor did they bother to develop an alternate, modern disc brake system - I believe it wasn’t until the mid ‘60s that they offered a modern disc brake.

Crosley’s disc brake was more of a modern, conventional disc brake. It was a real pioneering effort but like Chrysler’s didn’t work well in service and was discontinued. With decent financing, Crosley could probably have done better as their design was basically sound. The first successful modern disc brake shown to the public was created by Dunlop in England. It allowed the Jaguar C-Type racing car to outbrake all the competition at LeMans in ’53, although it wouldn’t be offered on a Jag street car until ’57. Jensen supposedly put these brakes on a couple of cars in ’54 as a test, but the first official offering was on the Austin-Healey 100S of ’55. This was a very special option package designed for owners who were going to race the cars, with about 50 examples built. All the other Austin-Healeys made do with drums until the late ‘50s.

The first mass-produced car to offer modern, reliable disc brakes was the Citroen DS19, which was introduced in the fall of ’55 and went into immediate mass production with standard front discs. A slightly cheaper variant, the ID19, appeared the next year but still with the standard disc brakes. These disc brakes had to be successful, as the D-series cars were never offered with any type of drum brake for the front wheels. The brakes were designed and manufactured by Citroen and featured two hydraulic cylinders on one side of a sliding caliper, and an integral self adjusting mechanical parking brake. They were used through the ’65 model year and into ’66, at which point they were replaced with an improved design. Except for very early (pre ’62) ID19s, these brakes were actuated by a true high pressure power system with no master cylinder.

With regard to automatics, the original Hydramatic was a four speed gearbox, but not in the modern sense. First was basically a granny gear designed to just get the car moving at which point it shifted into second. Once underway it operated more like a three speed. The granny gear was a byproduct of using a fluid coupling rather than a torque converter; the fluid coupling is more efficient but doesn’t help much in moving the car from rest, so the granny first was needed. Some owners didn’t like the immediate shift into second as it could create a small clunk and jerk – some Hydramatic versions are smoother here than others.

Chrysler really changed the game in late ’56 when the Torqueflite was introduced, with three speeds and a torque converter. It was smoother and quieter than any automatic before. By the mid-‘60s GM abandoned the old fluid coupling Hydramatic in favor of the Turbohydramatic which featured three speeds and a torque converter. Ford had already gone this route with the Cruise-O-Matic, and by the early ‘70s even Mercedes did the same thing, abandoning their old four speed plus fluid coupling Hydramatic clone in favor of three speeds plus a torque converter. I’m not arguing that three speeds are better than four, it’s just that the Hydramatic didn’t have four really useful gears. BTW, lockup torque converters did exist in the ‘50s – both Packard and Borg-Warner used them.
[this post was last edited: 10/15/2010-16:39]
 
'64 Dodge Dash

Here's the dash of the '64 (we call her "Miss Jane"). The pushbuttons are on the left, the heating/venting controls are on the right. Unlike my '59 Olds that had "idiot lights" for hot/cold/oil/alternator - the Dodge has gauges for these, which I like.

In motion, it is a very smooth shifting car and rides like a cloud. I don't why they aren't still using pushbuttons for transmission selection today - rather than having these big, bulky shifters in the center console (or now on the dash as with my 2010 Town & Country).

kevin313++10-15-2010-14-56-54.jpg
 
"I don't why they aren't still using pushbuttons for transmission selection today - rather than having these big, bulky shifters in the center console (or now on the dash as with my 2010 Town & Country)."

I have heard stories that explain this. They aren't consistent, but they all seem to down the the government. Some stories say they were outlawed, others say the government made a policy to stop buying push button transmissions. I hope someone here has the correct answer. (Given the knowledge some here have about cars, I'm sure someone must know!)

I think push button transmissions might be a nice way of clearing clutter, but they do seem to have a couple of real problems:
-You have to look to see which button to push, taking your eyes off the road. (A possible problem if driving in bad conditions, and wanting to down shift.)
-One could possibly hit the wrong button. I especially shudder at the thought of hitting "R" at the wrong time. (Possibly a way of making this safer--even safer than the current system--is to force the driver to push 2 buttons at once to get reverse, just like one often had to push 2 buttons to get record on a tape deck or VCR. An interlock that forces a complete stop before going into reverse could help, but I'm a little leery of interlocks. Eventually, the system could fail.)

Overall, I'm not sure whether I'd like buttons or not, not having any experience. But then, it's sort of irrelevant--every car I've bought has had a manual shift, which does tend to dictate that there will be a lever of some sort. The only question is where the gear shift will lurk.
 
Push button transmissions do live on, though!

Yes, it's true. Only hitch: you have to buy a bus.

A year or so back, I was commuting a while by bus, and it was quite a surprise seeing that the bus serving my route had the push button transmission that--I had heard--was a no-no since 1960 something.

The big difference is that the bus buttons are plastic, and--if I remember right--the selected button lights up.
 
Pushbuttons are kinda cool, although one issue was always how to quickly hit the right button for a manual shift. My aunt had a '65 Barracuda when I was a small boy and I remember clearly how my older cousins would manually shift it - it took a lot of coordination to hit the correct button. Today with electrically operated shift buttons on the steering wheel that's a non-issue, and having buttons on the dash would allow the elimination of big center consoles.

I don't think government had anything to do with the end of Chrysler's pushbuttons. Lynn Townsend became president of Chrysler in '61, and he was detemined to match everything GM and Ford did, all while cheapening Chrysler's costs. Neither GM nor Ford used pushbuttons (aside from the Edsel Teletouch and a very few Mercurys), so getting rid of them allowed a likely cost savings plus it made Chryslers controls more like those at GM and Ford.

It's worth remembering that in the '50s Chrysler developed their hemi-head V8, the Torqueflite, their torsion bar front suspension, and unit bodies (introduced for '60). They didn't invent hemi heads, torsion bars, or unit bodies by a long shot, but they were first among the Big Three with these items on standard-size sedans. In short, they were trying to be known for progressive engineering. Under Townsend they cut their budget and reduced quality throughout the '60s - too bad they couldn't have continued on their path of the '50s with some commitment to advanced engineering. It's ironic that Fiat, another company with a long history of engineering excellence, now controls Chrysler. Fiat has always been clever with value engineering, but they've never turned their back on creative and advanced engineering - lets hope they can bring some of the greatness back to Chrysler.
 
I was visiting an aquaintance a few weeks ago and somewhere during the conversation cars came into the picture. Perhaps because he worked at a Chrysler dealership. Anyways he mentioned something about his Imperial in the garage so of course I had to go see it. Under a custom tarp a beautiful condition 62 4 door Imperial so of course I told him when he takes it out next I want to go for a ride. Loved all those buttons and the squared of steering wheel. He had about 1 inch to spare putting the car in the garage or it would hit the door.
 
59's in the neighborhood

My former neighbors the Seiberts had a '59 Olds 88 in silver. The Bates family had the station wagon in black. We had a Pontiac Catalina in black with white top, the Ledfords a Ford Galaxie in black, the McLaughlins a Ford Fairlane or Galaxie in beige, and the Burketts a Buick Lesabre in white. Don't know why so many bought new cars that year.
 
Imperial

I can't speak for the early Imperials, but over the course of the years, I've had a 1965 DeVille convertible, a 1965 Lincoln sedan and a 1965 Imperial Crown 4 door hardtop. By then the Imperial had a regular column shift. It was the best handling of the three, but had a very harsh ride. The Lincoln was the best ride, but would scrape the door handles off going around a corner and the Cadillac was in the middle. Ok handling and a decent ride.

I had the chance to drive a friend's 1953 Imperial Coupe on a trip years ago. Very icy power steering and very touchy brakes on it. We took turns, about two hours each at the wheel as it would tire you out trying to keep the car in its lane on the freeway. It was a fun ride though.
 

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