Report states we are all covered in s---- fecal matter....

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mattl

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To continue the never ending discussion of Hot vs. cold wash we have the latest entry via Huffington.

 

<blockquote>
<span style="font-size: medium;">2. Washing your clothes might get rid of dirt, but it also has a good chance of covering your laundry in E. coli and feces.</span>

 

Research performed by Dr. Charles Gerba, a professor of microbiology at the University of Arizona, concluded that doing just one load of underwear in the washing machine can transmit 100 million E. coli into the water, which can then transfer over to the next load. "There's about a tenth of a gram of poop in the average pair of underwear," Gerba told ABC. To reduce the problem, it is suggested you run the washer at 150 degrees and transfer laundry to the dryer as quickly as possible, since bacteria multiply in damp areas. None of this may help, however. Yale students learned in the beginning of the 2013 school year when they had a problem of students defecating into the laundry machines. At any rate, we're all wearing at little bit of feces. It's unavoidable.

</blockquote>

www.huffingtonpost.com

Everything You Know About Your Personal Hygiene Is Wrong

Everything You Know About Your Personal Hygiene Is Wrong
www.huffingtonpost.com www.huffingtonpost.com
 
Another article written by someone at a keyboard with nothing else to do than try to scare people!We have been laundering,using our potties,sinks,carpets and such for DECADES without any real problems.However---Why would college students defecate into the laundry equipment? Don't get it.Didn't have that problem when I went to college.At most some jokester would steal the agitators and lint filters not allowing you to use the machines.
 
We've been down this path before.

Ecoli only becomes a health problem mainly if ingested. Infants for goodness sakes spend time with their bottoms covered in feces and you don't see them dropping off because of it under normal circumstances.

Considering the hand washing habits of many Americans, laundry is the last thing many should be worrying about.
 
You HAVE EColi in your digestive system-if you DIDN'T have it couldn't digest your food.Yes,its dangerous--if the EColi STAYS in the digestive tract its OK.We all carry up to SEVERAL pounds of it!!!All other animals have it,too.
 
As the cable version of Blazing Saddles sings, "There's no avoiding the conclusion, our town is turning into tihs".

What you DON'T want is cowflop in your rare hamburger, which the US industrial food chain has managed to deliver a number of notorious times.

NEVER buy packaged hamburger, which contains contaminants from a thousand cows and it only takes one to make you sick. Buy only store-ground. And cook it well.
 
"Never buy packaged Hamburger"Amen to that---that is why I GRIND MY OWN!!Hamburger is actually a "fragile" food-it really doesn't keep well-grind only what you need when you are going to use it-and YOU can choose the meat type from the store to grind.And--you KNOW that you cleaned the grinder after the last use!You can't be sure the store or large meat packer plant cleaned theirs.
 
We also have immune systems! The purpose of doing laundry is not to produce clothes that are completely sterile ! You're just reducing the amount of bacteria on them and removing dirt/stains etc

To sterilise the clothes would involve very high sustained temperatures or very nasty chemicals.

These kinds of reports are really just ridiculous. I don't think anyone in the developed world is dying or sick from e.coli picked up from washing underpants!!

The reality is that we are covered in, surrounded by and contain all sorts of microorganisms and they do us no harm at all.

We even use then symbiotically in our own bodies to digest food !

I would much rather take my chances with normal washing than expose myself to some of the harsh disinfectants that would be required to kill off the bugs.

There's too much paranoia about bacteria and viruses in the context of normal household cleaning.

It's no wonder we're producing generations of kids who can't cope with normal bugs and are allergic to everything!
 
MRX!

Just said it right!
People is beginning to be too scared of germs... a house is not a sterile chamber in a hospital!
 
People say this report is idiotic yet, a generation or two ago, there were few problems with front loaders stinking and having to be run through washer cleaning cycles. While nominally cold water at no lower than 70F or so is great for protecting dark colors, cold water washing, as practiced by people who don't know anything about the principles of laundering, is not effective at much of anything except eventually getting fabrics wet and in some top loading HE machines not even that because the cold water does not relax fabrics enough to allow them to move with the ineffectual agitation. While we are not seeking to sterilize our laundry in the washing machine, we are seeking to remove the soil and oils and wash all of that out of the washing machine. All very cold water does is water the garden of flora that is living in the washer instead of being washed away and sent down the drain.
 
I think the smelly washing machine syndrome is a different set of issues though. It's mold rather than bacteria and viruses.

I would also suspect that it could be to do with poor design of the outer tub too. Machines should be designed so the tub naturally dips dry into the sump.

I think the issues are more likely to be internal surfaces that are more mould friendly than older machines were.

Cold washes mostly cause problems by not dissolving the detergent fully so you end up with gunk sticking to the drum / outer tub.
 
I'd also add : WHY? are they so obsessed with cold washi

While we're a bit fixated on exceedingly low water levels in washing machines in Europe, so far the whole notion of cold-water washing hasn't really caught on at least not here anyway.

I don't really see what the fuss is about it to be honest. The majority of energy wastage with laundry processes is caused by drying them. Heating up a low-water usage front-loader to 40º or 60º is really not that huge an energy consumption. I could understand why it might be an issue with the traditional top loader machines which did use quite a lot of water.
Maybe that's why the US is more focused on cold-water washing as it's been something that was pushed for traditional V-axis machines to save energy ?

If your machine's not using all that much water, it doesn't have that much to heat up in the first place.

The biggest area you can save energy in is drying clothes, not washing them.

1) Spin dry them at the highest speed available preferably 1600rpm if possible.
2) Low tech solution: Line dry anything you can line dry. (Finish off in dryer if necessary or to fluff it up).
3) Higher tech solution: Invest in a very efficient dryer that uses a heat pump. It has genuinely saved us a lot of money since we switched over to one and they work pretty well. I find our heat pump dryer a lot faster than a normal condenser and close enough to the performance of a vented dryer. It can also dry clothes without using very much heat as it's literally forcing the water out of them in the condensation cycle.
 
((((SIGH))))

Pseudo science knows no bounds regarding stupidity.

Let me rehash just a few of the "trends" that turned out to be flash in the pan ideas.

1970's-Sugar was evil. We're all gonna have rotten teeth. Enter artificial sweeteners and HFCS neither of which is very good for you.

Then the assault on butter came. Oh snap! We're all gonna die from clogged arteries. ALong comes the push for margarine, basically yellow colored hydrogenated urine.

Then eggs were next. Then the egg council convinced us that the incredible, edible egg is really ok for us after all.

One study says booze in any form is bad. Next one tells us imbibe in 2 glasses of wine each day for better health.

Caffine being labled as evil comes and goes. One study says coffee increaes the risk of bladder cancer yet another one says it staves of dementia.

I clearly recall after a few cold winters in the midwest, by golly, the next ice age is around the corner! OMG! Gotta do something about it. 30 years later, we're told to believe that climate change is real (true, it is) and that humans are the root cause (we're not).

A category 4 hurricane smashes into lake Okeechobee in 1928 and does, in 2013 dollars, less than 500 million in damage. Katrina tears Nawlins a new arsehole and (at a cat 3 at landfall) does 80 billion in damage. Conclusion? All because of global warming, aka climate change, which is caused by us westerners driving outsized SUVs and living in mcmansions, hurricanes are (gasp) getting STRONGER and LONGER lived and making MORE landfalls. Result? We're told that we have to reduce our carbon "footprint" Congress bans the edison bulb (while we import the replacements made in China, not exactly the bastion of efficiency). HD diesel trucks are banned from idling and forced to use low sulfur fuel (at much greater expense).

Then came a prolonged drought in the People's Republic of California. Result? We got 1.6 gallon commodes that ended up being flushed 3-4 times to move our outsized feces (see #1 above)into our sewers. But hey, we're saving water!

Then we, the lemmings of this once great nation, allowed the guvmint to dictate how much water we can use in our (once private) homes to clean our dishes and our laundry. Result? Dishwashers that run LONGER (thus using more, not less, electricity)to clean dishes and washers that wash so poorly that a maid in Honduras beating clothes on a rock by a stream can have cleaner clothes. Of course, the media and DOE constantly reminds us of the "need" to enact such measures so as to save humanity from itself.

Ah, then there's my fav pet peeve..........phosphates! Oh yes, those evil chemicals that are ruining our waterways were diabolically removed from laundry detergent and dishwasher detergent. The Greenpeace crowd stroked itself into a giddy frenzy over that one all the while munching on granola and disgesting hummus on whole wheat crackers.

So, Electrasol, aka Finish powder, my daily driver in the dishwasher world suddenly stopped cleaning effectively. Hmmmm wonder why? Call slumlord who dispaches repairman who looks at the Kitchenaid, pulls the sump, nope, nothing amiss here. He replaces the food grinder and screen for good measure. Off he goes. 4 days later, Washman does a load of dishes like he always has. Same results. Egg remained on plate. Cig stains on ashtrays remained. Coffee stains remained in said cups. WTF?

Called PAWC, my municipal water supplier (and to whom I, not the government pay my water bill) and inquired if they switched sources of water? no, still comes from same resivior 35 miles up the road. Hmmmmmm. Take sample to my local ag extension for hardness test. Comes back just ever so slightly on the side of "hard". Same as it was when I moved in. Stumped, Washman calls Reckitt-bensicker and asks questions. He's told that due to guvmint rules, phosphates had to go. Ok, now what?

Here's the answer verbatim I got from RB: Ready?

"Ensure your tap water temp is 140 degrees and be sure to fill both detergent cups COMPLETELY"

Huh? Well ok, if you say so RB. So I crank up my WH another 20 degrees. Verify I have a piping hot 140 degree water at the tap. Run tap for 2 minutes to ensure water is flowing at 140 degrees. It is. Duly load dishwasher. Run regular cycle with BOTH cups FILLED completely.

Result? Barely a 50% improvement in cleaning. Ok, next load, run the effing thing on HEAVY. Still followed same instructions as given by RB. Now the dishes come clean, sort of.

Conclusion?

1. I use more, not less, natural gas to heat water far beyond what I need to clean my body or laundry.

2. I use 3x the amount of detergent. Which, all other factors being equal, means I buy it 3x more often. Which means RB makes 3x the amount, which means delivery trucks make 3x the number of deliveries burning expensive, albeit sulfur free, diesel.

3. I toss 3x the number of boxes in the trash. But I think they are made from 35% post consumer recycled paperboard so I suppose that makes it ok. Somehow.

4. dishwasher runs much longer therefore the pump motor is running longer thus using more, not less, electricity.

Thus my take on all these studies, no matter how they are funded, is pure bull. Just like the attack on washing machines. ALl it is, in reality, is yet another attempt by our good guvmint to control our lives. Classic case of some special group attempting to control another group for whatever reason.

The real tragedy here is we're all sitting back and taking it in the rump with nary a whimper of protest. What I find astounding is our modern trendy hipsters not giving a toss where something is made or how it was made (usually by children or slave labor in 3rd world nations) but they get all ga-ga over carbon footprints, hybrid cars, and HE washing machines.

One thing they never tell you is this. If assuming all the pseudo science is correct, and our dear planet is getting warmer, would that lead one to conclude that the polar ice caps are slowing melting which would naturaly result in MORE, not LESS water being available to us?

Does it make you wonder?
 
I have to say, I'm getting absolutely flawless results from Unilever's Sun All-in-One which is phosphate free and is usually a good bit cheaper than Finish.

Maybe the built-in water softener in Euro dishwashers has something to do with it though? And, I'm also in a soft water area.

Dishes come out spotless, glasses come out sparkling - Can't really complain!

I haven't really noticed any issues with laundry detergents either and they've been phosphate free for as long as I can remember.

I was talking to someone here who knows quite a lot about waste-water treatment systems and it seems that the municipal and even small town / village sewage treatment plants all do denitrification-dephosphorus processes that remove a lot of phosphates.

She was saying though that the single biggest source of phosphates that cause eutrophication is agriculture, not domestic waste water as the vast majority of that is going through relatively complex treatment systems that remove it. However, one-off homes using septic tanks can produce quite a bit of it, but still it's tiny compared to what's produced by agriculture.

Intensive agriculture, particularly pig and poultry farming is a big source of it here. Animal slurry is typically spread or machine injected just sub-surface as a fertiliser for grazing lands and because of the heavy rain falls tends to rather rapidly work its way into lakes and rivers.
Artificial nitrate fertilisers have the same effect.

Yet, the focus is always on dishwasher tablets rather than the elephant in the room : farming!

We do now have nitrate / phosphate control zones where that kind of activity is banned or controlled and regulated but it's still not nearly as tough as it should be and a lot of the rules couldn't possibly work. They've all these things about not spreading it within X feet of a river / ditch / stream etc.. however, given the rainfall you get in this part of the world it's a bit pointless!

The rules are tightening all the time though, but even so, there's a hell of a lot more going on than simply dishwasher detergent.

That being said, I think there is an argument that 'every little helps' and reducing the nitrate / phosphate load definitely keeps lakes and rivers functioning normally but it really has to involve a lot more than just banning dishwasher detergents.
 
@washman

Tea and Coffee is still blamed for Bladder cancers and the like. All the while, there are reports contradicting this saying that people who drink Tea and Coffee have lower blood pressure and get more antioxidants and live longer than those who don't (Plus the Dementia stuff you mentioned). 

 

Cigarettes "cause" Cancer. Says who? Everyone is different. But then there is the protective effect they don't mention against radiation, mental illness and the relieve from stress Cigarette smoking provides (until you need another). 

They also don't tell you the number of animal experiments conducted that showed inconclusive evidence for this "cancer" stuff. 

First it was Beagles hooked up to smoking machines all day, every day, smoking cigarettes designed for HUMANS (They are smaller), and about 2-3 pack per day frequency. Some were asphyxiated, but no Cancer. So, the doctors decide they "aren't inhaling enough." So, they cut the throats of those animals and run the experiment again. Similar results.

Then they move onto mice. These mice were exposed to 4-5 pack per day levels that not even humans can achieve (and remember how small they are!). Aside from the asphyxiation, there were very few cases of cancer. So they breed mice that are more likely to get Lung Cancers and should only live 2 years. 2.5 years later, most of the mice are still alive and don't have Cancer, even after autopsy. 

So to "prove" their case, doctors used CELL EXTRACTS and EXTRACTS of the chemicals in cigarette smoke and "proved" that smoking causes Cancer. 

 

Then there is the advice to drink 1 glass of Red-Wine weekly, all the while they are running adverts telling us to avoid more than a Standard Drink every day to decrease our risk of complications resulting from alcohol consumption. AND while they are saying that children shouldn't be exposed to Alcohol. Well, if a glass of Red is so good, why keep it from the kids? (Just kidding!)

 

As for this article, it is slightly sensationalist. And whilst I am a bit of a germaphobe, everyone knows it is still good practice to sort and separate your laundry depending on (not only) the Soils on the load, but the type of soils they consist of. Skid-marks (apologies for the lack of a more polite term) and Socks require that extra time and temperature to ensure they are properly clean and the machine isn't some sort of biohazard for the next user. 

The funny thing is, people used to sort their laundry and washed and higher temperatures all the time, before there was so much concern of sterilisation, sanitation and the like. And now, in the 21st Century when we know better, there are people who are scared of anything that moves a micron, yet they wash everything in cold water and have a toxic waste dump in the laundry and insist they have "clean clothes."

NO: You need HOT WATER and DETERGENT (or good-quality, homemade Soap) to wash clothes effectively and to ensure the washing machine itself stays clean and mostly uncontaminated for the next wash - exactly the issue with cold water: There's plenty of detergent, but not enough temperature to properly suspend all the dirt and grime. It simply becomes "easier" for the dirt and bacteria to cling to the washer's mechanism rather than go down the drain!
 
Actual Clean , No poop needed.

1. By default, I dismiss the latest fox (not) news scare tactic journalism. These are designed to keep people from changing and to push them to use even more chemicals and petroleum products. No sale.

2. I don't use laundry detergent anymore. Why? There is oil in it. Yes, that's right. something that one associates with CLEAN rinsing, has oil in it.

I also don't use shampoo or body washes anymore for the same reason. The only things I use for laundry is Baking soda and white vinegar. For shampoo I use a baking soda solution apple vinegar in a spray bottle.

Laundry:
Whirlpool Duet. Warm or hot wash. place half clothes in. dump 16 oz box of baking soda on clothes (more for dirtier laundry). place rest of clothes. start washer. Once enough water has entered and it has tumbled and diluted the baking soda, press pause and set a timer for 30 to 45 minutes. Now is when that concentrated solution is softening stains and soils. Restart machine. If it continues to add water wait until that stops. Add 1/2 box of baking soda to dispenser and vinegar to fabric softener dispenser. Let cycle finish. Air dry.

3. Have you ever used detergent and then air dried? And the clothes came out crunchy or not fluffed?
That is because of the oils gunking it up, Just like that gunk that has accumulated in washers, discussed elsewhere.

With baking soda wash, air dried clothes dry soft. They smell natural and clean.

Now mind you, your clothes will not Radiate colors like a rainbow on acid. They will not glow in the dark with flourescents. They will not eminate perfumes that will gag a horse. Which, if you think about it, is really creepy and unnatural. Who wants to have clothing that has petro-chemical oils on them, up against your skin for how many hours a day?

4. Simple test- take a box of powder laundry detergent, put your fingers in it, feel it. now rinse it off. It doesn't rinse off. It leaves a residue. Only an oil product would do that.

Same with shampoo and body wash.

After a week of using baking soda on my hair, with all the oil gunk removed, my hair was lighter in weight and lighter in color. And I don't need to wash it everyday.

5. Also, I had some issues with Rosacea. After ditching the petro-chemicals, the dry, chaffing, red skin on my face, went away. I'm convinced, Rosacea is an allergy to petro chemicals. And why not, with the petro chemical gunk on your hair 24/7, yuck.

Don't be fooled by the suds and foam. That does NOT mean clean. Fire extinguishers create foam. That doesn't mean its cleaning anything.

Clean is the END RESULT.

When you use Baking soda and Vinegar, You will not see foam suds or lather or foam. I had to get used to this. But when your hair is dry, it will feel clean, it will be clean, it will look clean.

Same with laundry. Clean is NOT bright and perfumed.
Clean does NOT require a clothes dryer.
It does not require many chemicals and extra hot water.

Clean clothes that are air dried, smell fresh. The sun sanitizes them naturally.
without using how many Kilowatts of electric, creating lint which is a fire hazard, creating machine noise which is a negative energy.

6. Clean in Reality,
not in petro-chemical industry paid for, fly-by-night marketing theory.

rustyspaatz++11-10-2013-01-56-16.jpg
 
To be fair to medical researchers the link between smoking and lung cancer is very, very well proven epidemiologically without any need to reference those inhumane animal tests mentioned further up the thread.

Exposing yourself to semi-combusted materials and deliberately inhaling them is just not going to do you any good at all.

I would suggest you read some of the research. There's nothing vague, fluffy or inconclusive about it!

Of course smoking won't guarantee you get lung cancer, emphysema etc etc but it will very dramatically increase your chances of getting it.

The 'benefits' of smoking are non existent other that a bit of a kick from nicotine which you then become addicted to and need to keep smoking to prevent withdrawal symptoms.

It's a pretty pointless, expensive and very unhealthy habit.

As for detergent : it definitely works but I agree it's being over complicated to achieve various marketing fads goals.

Washing at 40°C (hand hot) is much, much more effective than cold water.

I find it's interesting that European machines don't have a cold option in a lot of cases and where they do they still insist on getting the water up to about 25° (77°F) to ensure the detergent works and dissolves.

Filling a machine with very cold tap water, which in winter could be really like it's been in the fridge, isn't very effective at getting gunk out of anything.

I'm a big fan of some of the non-petrochemical detergents like ecover. Even if I use a mainstream detergent I always stick with their fabric softener as it doesn't contain anything that I would be worried about remaining in contact with my skin.
 

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