research help: why did front loaders drop off from 70s-00s?

[danemodsandy]

Laundry Locations:

Not many houses I have been in, at any age, have had laundries in their kitchens. I think your theory about showing off all of an appliance maker's lineup in one shot is a likely reason the arrangement is so often seen in ad photos.

Basements are a usual location, and they have one huge advantage: If the washer leaks, little harm is done, because the floor is concrete. There is also no expense incurred for concealing pipes and connections - it's a basement, who cares? In the South, where I grew up, many slab-foundation or crawl-space-only subdivision houses built in the later '50s and early '60s had a "utility room" built at the rear of the carport; on one-car carports, it could hold the washer and dryer and not much else. This arrangement is not feasible in areas of the country that get really cold in Winter, of course.

In the late '70s and early '80s, when the condo craze was on, there was a huge vogue for stacked pairs tucked into closets, preferably somewhere close to the bedroom. I think this may be the genesis of today's vogue for dedicated laundry rooms located near bedrooms.

The kitchen is not a great place for a laundry, because of the proximity to food substances that can stain the laundry if accidentally contacted, and because laundry can contain soils that should not be anywhere around food, like those found in dirty diapers.

 

[xraytech]

Around here everyone I know except two people have their laundry in the basement.
The two that dont one as their laundry in the corner of their attached garage, the other is in a fore poch that has been made into a room off the kitchen

 

[golittlesport]

Laundry locations

Growing up on the east coast, almost every home I was every in had the washer and dryer in the basement. The exceptions were usually older apartments or duplexes where sometimes washers were installed in the kitchen. (This was probably because of proximity of plumbing and available space when adding an automatic washer to the household, not the design of the builders.) Two of my aunts in Buffalo NY had washing machines in their kitchens so they wouldn't have to go down the rickety steps into the dark musty basements in their very old houses.

Moving to California with my family in the early 70's it was interesting to find no basements in the houses. Most homes build in the 50s and 60s in CA had washer and dryer in the garage, or in the kitchen, or sometimes a separate utility room near the kitchen. In 50's homes, there was often only space for a washing machine in the kitchen, as many people line-dried clothes year round. As automatic clothes dryers became more common in the 60s and 70s, people would sometimes install a dryer in the garage or on a back porch off the kitchen.

The home we moved into in CA had the washer and dryer in the kitchen, on the other side of a breakfast bar. It was really a large kitchen and laundry room without dividing walls. We had avocado Westinghouse appliances. My mom was thrilled with the arrangement after having to carry laundry up and down two flights of steps, from bedrooms to basement and back, in our house in Pittsburgh, PA. She often said it was heaven having the laundry close to the kitchen. In CA, she had clothes lines just outside the kitchen door in a side yard, and the house had a separate large backyard patio off the living room for entertaining and relaxing. It was really an ideal setup.

New homes in CA mostly have separate laundry/utility rooms near the garage, kitchen or bedrooms.

 

[maytagbear]

Location, location, location.....

The house in which I grew up had the washer and dryer in the basement, for that was the only place where they could have been, without major remodeling. There were concrete utility/laundry sinks already there, which were capacious enough for the SudsMiser (also known as suds saver) feature on our 1964 Whirlpool Imperial.

My last three apartments have had the washer and dryer in the kitchen. Not ideal, but far, far better than no washer/dryer hookups at all.

If I were building (having a house built) a house, I would have a fairly stripped down pair in an alcove off of the kitchen, for kitchen towels and the like, and my main pair in an alcove of the master bath.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[golittlesport]

front loader

We also had two front load washing machines when I was a kid, both Westinghouse Laundromats -- first a 1957 and later a 1966. My mom liked them. When we moved to CA, we had a Westinghouse top loader. I recall my mom using Dash and Salvo in her Laundromats.

I read in a consumer magazine that the average/low score on front loaders in the 60s - 70s was due to the sub performance of low-suds detergents available at the time, and of course using a high suds detergent like Tide would also impair a front loader's performance.

Women were indoctrinated at the time that clothes could only get clean with "mountains of suds" - a carry over from wringer washer and soap days, when reusing the wash water over and over necessitated adding more soap and maintaining a "rich 2-inch layer of suds" as I recall a soap box instructing.

I remember a neighbor talking to my mom about her Westy always overflowing with suds and breaking down. She used Cheer and didn't measure....just poured it in. My mom tried to tell her to use Dash, but the neighbor wouldn't hear of it. (I was only about 6 years old at the time, but remember thinking that woman was so stupid and didn't know how to properly do laundry.) The motor on the neighbor's Westy finally burned out and they got a Whirlpool -- a better choice to use Cheer in, but she still didn't measure and the Whirlpool would often suds lock during the first spin. She never learned.

I can count about 6 families with front loaders in our neighborhood in the late 1950's, all Westy Laundromats except for one Bendix.

 

[launderess]

Location, Location, Location

Where laundry equipment is located has most always depended upon easy access to water. Hopefully running hot and cold, but in the early days it would mean having space for stove that provided heat not only for water but often the flat irons as well.

When indoor plumbing including hot water became the norm it did allow greater choices in placements of laundries. Have laundry design/product manuals going back to the early 1900's that show all manner and sort of home laundries. Basements, dedicated rooms off the kitchen, back porches, etc.. Until modern tumble dryers came along one over riding concern was saving women from having to haul baskets of wet laundry up flights of stairs, out to clothes lines and back again.

Regarding basements in terms of home construction it greatly depends upon location. While common in the Northeast and Middle Atlantic states many places either out of construction cost containment or high water table homes elsewhere lack basements.

 

[ronhic]

This could be a great project if you looked at

the US, UK/Europe and Australia....Asia too.

From an Australian perspective...

Major appliances were very expensive here...though not as dear as say the UK or Europe after WWII.

American made Bendix machines were sold here from the earliest days. Stopped for WWII and then started again. They were stupid money to buy...but people did.

Here, the ringer machine was king (queen?) in the early 50's...followed by the British twin tubs (assembled here). Then Semi-automatics (look the same as an automatic, but you have to turn the dial to change the function from wash/spin/rinse and they would not change until you made them) followed by automatic top loaders and then front loaders....

The percentage of sales of other machines - wringers, twin tubs automatics and semi automatics all changed so that fully automatic machines were the leaders by the 1970's....

Front loaders maintained around 5-10% of our market from the mid-late 1960's until about 1995 or so. There was no 'drop-off' as such. They had always had a small share, often selling to apartment owners who used them in either a small laundry room, the bathroom or hall cupboard. Europeans who migrated often bought them as witnessed by Scottish friends of our family who had 2 British Hoover Keymatics when I was a kid.

From around 1995 or so, local councils started to provide incentives for people to buy water efficient appliances. Australia is the driest permenantly inhabited continent on the planet (apart from Antartica)....and parts of Australia have just come out of a very long drought with strict water restrictions. Anyway, the incentives in Australia are not paid to the manufacturer to produce, but rather to the consumer to buy thereby ensuring that one cycle feeds the others needs rather than forcing the other to comply - The consumer is in charge, not the manufacturer.

Since then, front load washers, which were always around 30% (closer to 50% today) more water efficient here than a top load washer anyway, have increased sales so that they are generally around 50% or more of the market today.

Potted history.....and the UK and European experience is different for different reasons

 

[vintagekitchen]

My 2 cents (Ok, more like 20 cents)

As far as why front loaders fell out of fashion, according to both my grandmothers, they were prone to leaks, ridiculously expensive, in our area it was hard to find proper low suds detergent for them, and did they mention prone to leaks? One aunt refused to listen, and bought herself a stacked Westy set like the one in the photo, but in white. The opening around the door rusted out on their well water. Leak city. Her cure was jam a towel in the rusted gaping maw to minimize leakage, toss a few towels in the floor in front of the washer to catch any leaks, and keep going using it until she felt like she had gotten her money's worth.

As far as colors, then as now, colors have always cost extra. Plain white is cheapest, unless the store has leftover stock of no longer fashionable colors they are trying to shift at a lower price. My memories of childhood are from the 80's, so here goes..

My family on my father's side always felt paying the extra was worth it, they felt keeping up with the Jones's was VERY important. Grammas kitchen had coppertone brown Kenmore appliances, and her laundry room had an avocado green Whirlpool set. Her eldest daughter bought all almond when she was married in the late 80s, Speed Queen in the laundry, and Hotpoint in the kitchen. Other daughter stuck with white, simply because she hated almond, and said it looked dirty (she had the Westinghouse set, no idea what was in her kitchen). When gramma redid her appliance in the late 80's it was almond Kenmores in the laundry, and almond Maytags in the kitchen. (This side of the family would always replace washer/dryer or stove/fridge as pairs, even if only one needed replaced, because "unmatched appliances look tacky, and you cant get that color anymore, etc etc.")

Mom's side of the family however, could squeeze a nickel till it was paper thin, and refused to pay the extra, or even worry about matching appliances, and didnt give a damn what the Jones's thought. Gramma had a white Hotpoint stove, paired with a single door non-self defrost Frigidaire fridge in harvest gold. When I asked why she bought the fridge that color and not white to match the stove, she said they had all the harvest gold stuff on sale because no one wanted it anymore, so it was cheaper than white. Laundry wise, she had a MOL GE filter flo in white, and a kenmore wringer in white, (no dryer until I was 16). Aunt had an avocado green Magic Chef stove that came with the house, paired with a white Roper fridge, (one that matched the stove came with the house, but died a year later). Laundry area had a white Whirlpool set. Other aunt had a gold frigidaire stove, paired with a white GE fridge. Laundry area had a white Kenmore washer paired with a brown GE dryer (dryer was purchased used, before that she used a clothesline).

Mom herself refused to pay extra for colored appliances and all we ever had was boring white, starting with our Hoover twin tub, then the GE filter flo set bought when I was 5, along with the GE fridge and Kelvinator (I think) stove.

As far as laundry location, Mom's side of the family lived in mobile homes and theirs were all located in either the hall next to the bathroom, or in the bathroom. Dad's side of the family, one aunt in mobile home, laundry in hall (she had the westinghouse set). Gramma in a big farmhouse, big laundry room off the kitchen. Other aunt in a house, laundry on glassed/screened in back porch off kitchen. I think in this area it seems not so much to be whats convenient for the housewife, as whats convenient for the plumber. Wherever the water pipes were closest, thats where the laundry area seemed to end up.

 

[launderess]

Front Loaders ='s Rope Makers

Do not know when Westinghouse changed their design but all front loading washing machines sold in the USA until recently tumbled one way. That combined with the slanted drum of some designs produced a tangled mess of washing.

As VintageKitchen noted there was the problem with high sudsing detergents.

When soap was the main wash day choice for cleaning it requires a pretty decent rich layer of froth to indicate good cleaning. By this one means it showed that there was enough soap in the wash water and that the active components weren't used up softening the water/dealing with dirt.

After P&G introduced Tide and other "detergents" followed most all had to use surfactants and or add ingredients that created the froth housewives and others were used to for laundry day. If they didn't the stuff simply wouldn't sell as women and others had been brainwashed for ages to equate froth levels with good laundry results.

Sadly for front loaders high froth creates all sorts of problems, and not all could find and or were motivated to look for "condensed/controlled" sudsing detergents like Dash.

 

[circlew]

My mom owned two front-load washers, both Westinghouse. The first was a '55 and it required a visit from the serviceman frequently. Once it got so out of balance it walked far enough to unplug itself. Don't remember any rusting on it, though.

The second was a '64 (straight front) with an inset side opening door. It didn't have to be serviced as often, but the front and door developed rust early on.

It broke down in the Summer of '73, and Mom decided she wanted a machine of better quality. She got a Maytag A207 and DE406 set, which she used until her death in '95. I continued using them until I replaced the washer (still functional) in 2004. I still have the dryer.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I already know that I will get alot of disagreements from the FL's lovers but you cannot tell it is not the truth.
I personally think that for what concerns the Front loaders in US it was and still is all about a piloted marketing maneuver, in the early days when automatic washers started to enter in most houses the majority were TL's, don't forget that were manufacturers that since the early days tried to distinguish themselves by making FL's and some FL's only (or Drum type) as Launderall also claiming every absurd wonder about FL's and the fact that they were someway better, many people got them many people "liked" them but most preferred Top loaders! No wonder!
It was not because of the soap or detergent as someone said before, there were many Low suds detergents at the time some of the ones became famous in Europe too like Dash, it was not an oversudsing problem of some detrgents the fact that made FL's drop off, that would be pretty ridicolous, but rather the fact that TL's agitator were and are better on washing.
Well,I think it is a simple question to answer this one, in the 70s everyone had a washer, and the simple reasons why the FL's dropped off was because people got that TL's agitator washer were and are the best ones.....
If you see some manufacturers since the 60s when washer market was saturated with so many brands tried to distinguish and make more sales by starting to producing and offering FL's machines also, claiming and advertising them with lies and exalting and magnifying the fact that were better than TL's just to sell more and inducing and tempting the lucky people who had the luck to own an automatic washer as they came out in the early days (About 1950s) changing their old TL for a FL wich was claimed being better even if their TL was still running fine .....
It was also a commercial technique of some manufacturers to get people to choose that kind of machines and so mark since who produced and offered them were very few compared to all the others ones that produced TL's only.
Don't you think that if they were really better people would not have choosen them and so been the majority in US rather than TL's which were the only type of machines owned and used by most americans till today?

But I do not want to start or transform this thread in TL's VS FL's, it is always an "on topic" matter.....
What I can tell you about today and the fact that FL's are pulled out again it is just a simple reasoning identical in certain ways to what happened in the past but with some crucial differences:
Well, it is not a case that FL's sold as the new commercial stunt named:"HE" got pulled out again during an economical crisis period which affected seriously and deeply the appliance market and not before, this should make you people think.....
What a better way of improving the appliances market by re-bringing out the FL's and new chain of magic "modern" "weird" machines I mean also neptune roller, plate etc... and claiming every possible wonder about them as they're doing?
What a better way to entice owners of old REAL washers and appliances that are still going strong to get a new machine anyway or avoiding people in need of a new machine to switch for the used market for another one?
Dah dah!
Here you have " HE " the new "b******t" of 2000s!
Today they still using the old spots and "reasons why" for these machines of the 60s with the difference that today they put in the hat the "saving" matter to which people in these periods are more sensible because of the economical crisis, put in also the fact that nowadays people are hypnotized by commercials, tv addicted etc and that they believe and follow every crap is told to them and that commercial and tv says!

Problem is that new generations of consumer cannot recognize and does not care about REAL efficiency and quality about products and you can see it everywere and on everything, so not just appliances they just care and follow what's the moment's fashion which is dictated solely by mass advertising!
Also the way of housekeeping totally changed to bad, I will make an example I recently watched an ad for a detergent, a kid stain his t-shirt with some Ice cream, desperate mommy about dropping the t-shirt in the bin saying " I've to throw it away this tough stained tshirt"? While she gets stopped by granma that says: "use this" (I do not remeber the brand) like if this detergent does something magical about removing a banal ice cream spot!
I mean throw it away a tshirt for a banal choccolate stain? I didn't live in the 70s but I'm sure it wasn't a possible option in the 70s nor 80s without mentioning 60s not a normal thing in an ad of the past, this was just a silly example but what I want to say is that now is pretty normal to do and common for the mentality of people! People got this mentality now! And if a banal choccolate stain won't get clean is normal! So I'm not surprised if they now can like an HE, most housekeepers lost the contact with reality when a washer is intended to wash and a tough stain for which you had to throw a t shirt away would be for example an acrylic paint stain! Not an ice cream stain! I mean what? So what about if they watch an old advertisement where wives used to get clean the grease stained overall of the husbands? Today it would be SF!
Anyway I'm writing too much, hope you understand what I mean.
It was my opinion about that.
That's all.....
Cheers

 

[kenmoreguy89]

P.S

And good luck on your research!

 

[revvinkevin]

Laundry location in the house.........

 

 

I grew up in Southern CA and our house (built in the 50's) had the washer (a pink Maytag A700) in the kitchen with no provisions for a dryer.   We line dried until I bought and installed a used Maytag dryer on the back patio.   Interestingly, one of our next door neighbor had the washer & dryer in the garage (Maytag A606 washer & matching electronic dryer in avocado).  

 

My grandmothers house (built in the 20's) had a "back porch" as grandma called it, basically a small utility porch off the kitchen with a washer, laundry sink, water heater and a very small amount of storage.   She had an early-mid 50's Westinghouse FL for many years (and used Dash or ALL).   I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe she had many problems with it.   It was replaced in the early-mid 70's when my mom bought her a new Maytag washer,  insisting she replace the old Westinghouse (nothing wrong with it).

 

After I moved out I lived in a 2 bedroom townhouse (built in the 80's?).   The washer and dryer, a stacked Westinghouse set like the photo above (but white) was in the upstairs hallway in an alcove, next to the master bedroom.

 

Kevin

 

 

[foraloysius]

It would be nice if we could stick to the facts in such a thread like this instead of turning this in yet another FL vs TL discussion.

Overhere in Europe the history is about different for every country.

In the UK often washing machines were in the kitchen, so there the frontloader with the soap dispenser in the front became popular sooner than in the rest of Europe.

France has it's own history with the preference of the French for H-axis toploaders. One of the reasons might be the lack of space in Paris apartments. H-axis toploaders are only 40 or 45 centimeters wide.

Germany had more frontloaders. The frontloaders used lot of water in the fifties, sixties and early seventies. There were more frontloaders available with the controls on top and with the detergent dispenser on top too. Miele made frontloaders with a detergent dispenser for quite a long time, even when the controls had moved to the front already.

Switzerland has a lot of apartment buildings with communal laundry rooms. They put very sturdy commercial machines in there. They have their own brands like V-Zug, Wyss Mirella, Merker and Huwa.

Germany has apartment buildings with communal laundry rooms too, but the tenants put their own washing machine in there, so you have a row of different washing machines in a German laundryroom.

In the Netherlands the H-axis twintub like an AEG Turnamat was very popular. There was a drum for washing and rinsing. The only thing you had to do was spin the laundry in the separate spinner. The rest of the wash process is automatic. This set up is rather different from the British twintubs.

In general we can say that the northern part of Europe got washing machines with higher spin speeds than the southern part.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

@foraloysius

He asked WHY Front Loaders vanished and then "came back" and I responded what I know and think about, even if I missed to respond to the second question made about "laundry locations" and yes I admit I got a little "off topic" but this is part of history of washing machines and laundry as well, isn't it? I don't think I did anything wrong and no, I didn't want to transform it in TL's vs TL's as I also mentioned in the comment just said what it is...
If it is disturbing or "uninteresting" for you sorry but I just don't care as, again, I think I didn't do anythyng wrong by posting that, it wasn't a response to you, rather I care much to see if it was of help and of interest to the "questioner".
Nothing personal.
Cheers

 

[tomturbomatic]

Tell us, Freddy, have you actually read any of the magazines from the late 30s through the 70s about washing machine testing and use? These would include the so-called shelter magazines, the appliance trade journals and the consumer testing magazines. You might want to aquaint yourself with a bit of the history of a machine introduced 50 years before your birth because some of us here are old enough to remember seeing them operate and can refute, point by pioint, what you have written. How can you claim that there were low sudsing detergents before World War II when they were in their infancy in the early 1950s? I read little more than bombastic opinion in your post. As our esteemed colleague Louis requested, can we keep this a factual conversation?

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yes we can!

It is too easy to misunderstand on purpose and playing the cards of the age just beacause you're older than me! Then the fact you probably are more known and "famous" here than me on this website does not give you the right to act as you were speaking for the whole website and members! Tell me if I'm wrong but I just had this presentiment!
I'm free and I have the right to have my opinions and express the FACTS I know about as you have your right to, then if you say you can refute point by point what I wrote, well I'm waiting!!!!
Just do that on PVT message or let's open a thread about, not in this, let's this poor guy doing his research in peace!
First of all I want to point that I never told about low suds detergents before the WWII, If you can read well what others members said and what I've said (the member who did give the fault to detergents told about 60s and 70s and my response was to that not before WWII) I ment about Low sudsing detergents in 60s and 70s!!!! Not before!
Dash was invented in the 60s!!!!!
And anyway the drop off on production of FL's actually had it's terminus (even if like Kevin said they never completely stopped making them) about the final 70s when Low sudsing detergents were widely produced.
Anyway.....I speak for facts....and a shelter magazines and stuff like that aren't of course one as actually they can write everything just to accomplish manufacturers and brands who pays more to get it's name or models on it, it is so now and was so in the past, some things never changes!
Now I'm also waiting to know what you think about the drop off since my opinions are "bombastic", do you have at least one? I will wait you to prove me I'm wrong!
I'm sure the agreements you will get will be all from FL's lovers or sympathizers older and even younger than me, so just don't play the cards of the age.
It is not an age matter! You have not to be a genius to understand that a FL can't wash as good as a TL! Nor to get why they have drop off!
The FACTS reamains that most people from 1945 till now preferred mostly top loaders! So if you think that FL's were better this means that: or americans from 1945 to today were dumb or tell me what!

I honesltly think that modern world has shrunk so bad for what concerns family care, genuine living, so cleanings, and of course laundry and in general the housekeeping as it should be done, so probably the dumb are the people of today!
I do not want to start a TL vs FL again as what I think is still wrote in some of many threads about it.

In conclusion I can say mines are more FACTS than every else![this post was last edited: 7/30/2012-19:32]

 

[foraloysius]

"You have not to be a genius to understand that a FL can't wash as good as a TL!"

Now that is an opinion, unless you come up with scientific evidence that proofs that. So much for you sticking to the facts.

Question: Have you ever used a European frontloader?

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yes since I live in Italy!

Living in Italy I've used and seen so many of them both old and new!
I've used many European frontloaders both new and old models(and currently owner of 1 gifted to me that I have to get fixed and then sell it) and I tried some american FL's while in US..... no differences noticed about Americans and Europeans in terms of washing, they all used to get clothes not clean as toploaders.
I'm talking about washing actions and effectiveness of them which again are things you can easily get just thinking that of course beating and agitating clothes through water is obviously more effective than tumbling balls of wrapped wet clothes. You can't say are not facts that in US they prefferd TL's rather than FL's, I just told what I know, read, and have nalso personally experienced and known by reading and informing, and what I found out is that most people preferred top loaders because provided better washing results, if you want I can also tell you what I known and think about Europe and especially Italy about FL's being the most machines known......
What I want to point also is that do not want to talk about specific machines as it's obvious the fact that even some TL's models are bad at washing so it's not imperative they always are better, of course some FL's models might be way better at washing than some TL's.

For example I think that certain modern models of FL's gives better washing results than some certain others modern contemporary models of TL's!
But generally TL's provides cleanest clothes!
But again the facts that TL's have been preferred for the better washing are actually FACTS!
[this post was last edited: 7/31/2012-07:01]

 

[foraloysius]

I don't think I understand you. You state in your last sentence that the facts are actually facts. That is saying like a washing machine is actually a washing machine.

Anyway, I am looking forward to see proof of your statement. If you can't provide it, it means you have ventilated your opinion, not stated a fact.

Since you're from Italy, perhaps you could tell us some more about the history of Italian washers. For instance about the Ignis H-axis toploaders or the Candy Bimatic.