Hang onto your Maytag-as long as it still works--most of the disposers sold today are----JUNK!!!!Sadly Maytag won't be able to service your older machine.They are no longer in the disposer business.--except as ISE units with Maytag stampted on them.
RETRO FRIDAY--Say Goodbye to Garbage!
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Australia and Disposers
Thanks, Washer111!
Too bad about the general lack of consumer disposers in Australia.
I assume they are used in commercial establishments, such as restaurants, correct?
On the bright side, there would seem to be a potentially open market for reasonably priced consumer disposers, with virtually no competition. Based on what you indicated about attitudes, part of the marketing strategy would be to educate the consumer on the inherent value and convenience of the units.
Some entrepreneurial individual might be able to do quite well financially tapping into this.
Thanks, Washer111!
Too bad about the general lack of consumer disposers in Australia.
I assume they are used in commercial establishments, such as restaurants, correct?
On the bright side, there would seem to be a potentially open market for reasonably priced consumer disposers, with virtually no competition. Based on what you indicated about attitudes, part of the marketing strategy would be to educate the consumer on the inherent value and convenience of the units.
Some entrepreneurial individual might be able to do quite well financially tapping into this.
realvanman
Well-known member
Two Pole Induction Motors
I've always considered the use of a series motor in an application that does not absolutely require a particularly high speed or light weight to be a cheap substitute for a nice smooth and quiet running induction motor.
While I have no personal experience with a series motor powered disposal, I would think that, if the goal was simply higher speed, then induction motor powered disposals would be powered by two pole machines, giving around 3500 rpm, here in the land of 60 cycle current.
And what about the rest of the world, with 50 cycle current? Do they still get four pole motors? They'd run at only 1450 rpm or so.
Shaft speed is not the only factor in a machine such as a disposal. It's peripheral speed that gets the job done. So a slower- and quieter- (and more expensive) motor can be used so long as a larger (and more expensive) grinder is used. The opposite is, of course, a cheaper high speed motor and grinder.
Just my take. I always prefer larger and slower machinery. The engine in my motorhome has a maximum rpm of 2100. But it also displaces 743 ci and weighs nearly as much as a small sedan.
Keith
I've always considered the use of a series motor in an application that does not absolutely require a particularly high speed or light weight to be a cheap substitute for a nice smooth and quiet running induction motor.
While I have no personal experience with a series motor powered disposal, I would think that, if the goal was simply higher speed, then induction motor powered disposals would be powered by two pole machines, giving around 3500 rpm, here in the land of 60 cycle current.
And what about the rest of the world, with 50 cycle current? Do they still get four pole motors? They'd run at only 1450 rpm or so.
Shaft speed is not the only factor in a machine such as a disposal. It's peripheral speed that gets the job done. So a slower- and quieter- (and more expensive) motor can be used so long as a larger (and more expensive) grinder is used. The opposite is, of course, a cheaper high speed motor and grinder.
Just my take. I always prefer larger and slower machinery. The engine in my motorhome has a maximum rpm of 2100. But it also displaces 743 ci and weighs nearly as much as a small sedan.
Keith
series wound advantage
One of the advantages of series wouldn't motors, is it has among the highest weight to torque ratios. An even larger advantage is that the series wound motor has a torque curve inversely proportional to speed. So when load increases torque increases dramatically to meet the demand. That is why series wound motors are used in electric drills. A high power to weight ratio and an exceedingly high stall torque.
Therefore a series wound motor is ideally suited for a disposer where you want maximum "grinding power" applied when the machine is under full load and the very high stall torque that prevents jams that induction motors are more susceptible to in this type of environment.
One of the advantages of series wouldn't motors, is it has among the highest weight to torque ratios. An even larger advantage is that the series wound motor has a torque curve inversely proportional to speed. So when load increases torque increases dramatically to meet the demand. That is why series wound motors are used in electric drills. A high power to weight ratio and an exceedingly high stall torque.
Therefore a series wound motor is ideally suited for a disposer where you want maximum "grinding power" applied when the machine is under full load and the very high stall torque that prevents jams that induction motors are more susceptible to in this type of environment.
realvanman
Well-known member
Series Motors
Don't get me wrong- Machines with brushes and commutators are among my favorites!
And true that nothing can hunker down and pull through a tough load like a series motor. An induction motor can typically develop 2 or 3 times it's continuous power rating, but once the break down torque is reached, it will be brought to a swift halt. And the start up torque of a split phase motor is quite anemic, and of course pales in comparison to that of the series motor.
But I would argue that the extra mass and slower speed of the induction motor results in quieter operation, and that light weight doesn't matter since it's never moved from under the sink
With proper operator care, ie not overloading, and waiting until the grinding noise has stopped and the running water has cleared the debris before shutting down, I would maintain that induction powered machines are fine
And, most importantly, since tone cannot be conveyed over the internet, make no mistake that I'm just enjoying a friendly debate, not a competition or a flame war. It's fun talking about this stuff, and hearing the opinions and experiences of others
Keith
Don't get me wrong- Machines with brushes and commutators are among my favorites!
And true that nothing can hunker down and pull through a tough load like a series motor. An induction motor can typically develop 2 or 3 times it's continuous power rating, but once the break down torque is reached, it will be brought to a swift halt. And the start up torque of a split phase motor is quite anemic, and of course pales in comparison to that of the series motor.
But I would argue that the extra mass and slower speed of the induction motor results in quieter operation, and that light weight doesn't matter since it's never moved from under the sink
With proper operator care, ie not overloading, and waiting until the grinding noise has stopped and the running water has cleared the debris before shutting down, I would maintain that induction powered machines are fine
And, most importantly, since tone cannot be conveyed over the internet, make no mistake that I'm just enjoying a friendly debate, not a competition or a flame war. It's fun talking about this stuff, and hearing the opinions and experiences of others
Keith
both series and induction motors have their role
,
Agree with you 100%, Keith!
Its fun to banter about the appliances, etc. I hope my extolling the features of the series unit didn't imply a dislike for the induction motor disposals. Quite the contrary. I have both, and both get the job done, just differently. I like both. I find the inductions a little slower but quieter and the series a little faster but certainly a little louder at times.
Noise is a funny issue in this case. Yes, I find the series motors at full rpm are reminiscent of a vacuum cleaner in sound. But when grinding heavier bones like pork chop bones and fruit pits there is actually less noise from the series unit as they don't stay in the hopper anytime at all. With some of my induction units the bones and pits just bounce around in the hopper what seems interminably and keep making a racket that really gets on my nerves. So I've traded a louder motor noise for a much shorter duration grinding racket.
I think one advantage of the lighter/smaller series units, for some people with limited space, is that they take up a little less room under the sink. If a homeowner is going to install, the lightweight nature of the series motor also makes it a tad easier to lift and mount. But whether that is an advantage or not is in the eye of the owner.
As a rule the induction motors are heavier and as you say they have more mass, so they dissipate heat better. From my experience they will work a somewhat longer amount of time non-stop before the thermal overload will kick it.
So you've got advantages either way! Personally I am just glad to have a disposal at all, and feel badly for the people in countries like Australia where they are virtually unused by consumers, as Washer111 mentioned.
,
Agree with you 100%, Keith!
Its fun to banter about the appliances, etc. I hope my extolling the features of the series unit didn't imply a dislike for the induction motor disposals. Quite the contrary. I have both, and both get the job done, just differently. I like both. I find the inductions a little slower but quieter and the series a little faster but certainly a little louder at times.
Noise is a funny issue in this case. Yes, I find the series motors at full rpm are reminiscent of a vacuum cleaner in sound. But when grinding heavier bones like pork chop bones and fruit pits there is actually less noise from the series unit as they don't stay in the hopper anytime at all. With some of my induction units the bones and pits just bounce around in the hopper what seems interminably and keep making a racket that really gets on my nerves. So I've traded a louder motor noise for a much shorter duration grinding racket.
I think one advantage of the lighter/smaller series units, for some people with limited space, is that they take up a little less room under the sink. If a homeowner is going to install, the lightweight nature of the series motor also makes it a tad easier to lift and mount. But whether that is an advantage or not is in the eye of the owner.
As a rule the induction motors are heavier and as you say they have more mass, so they dissipate heat better. From my experience they will work a somewhat longer amount of time non-stop before the thermal overload will kick it.
So you've got advantages either way! Personally I am just glad to have a disposal at all, and feel badly for the people in countries like Australia where they are virtually unused by consumers, as Washer111 mentioned.
My assumption would be that disposers are present in more professional kitchens. I haven't seen any evidence of their use in "mom and pop" stores that you find around the place.
Of course, I suppose that grease traps can make up for some of that, and it could very well be the reason why they aren't as common in those small settings, due to the cost of more advanced traps (if such a thing exists. I'm only making assumptions here).
You are right that there would appear to be a largely un-tapped market here in Australia. The biggest gripe Australians would have is "running the water while the unit is on." The last 15-20 years have seen some very major droughts in this country, and as such, the government tries through every means possible to encourage people to save water, and not "waste" it.
Some cities and localities had such severe water restrictions in place that car-washing and even watering gardens was practically prohibited.
I think getting disposers into homes here would need to be in conjunction with grey-water systems. The additional plant matter (maybe not so much rotting flesh, but I could be wrong), combined with soaps would make a very good fertiliser/soil-conditioning agent. The water of course is being re-used from water-intensive activities such as laundering and washing up dishes.
This really gets one to thinking!
Now I must pose a quick question; are Induction motors and split-phase motors the same thing, or am I getting terminology confused? The discussion of series-wound motors is interesting, although distinguishing all three (or two?) is making my head rumble. LOL.
Perhaps I ought to go and research, although in times past I have tried doing so and ended up confused. I believe this happened the last time we had a thread/"squabble"/debate about GE Dishwasher's with the Induction (or was it shaded-pole?) motor.
Of course, I suppose that grease traps can make up for some of that, and it could very well be the reason why they aren't as common in those small settings, due to the cost of more advanced traps (if such a thing exists. I'm only making assumptions here).
You are right that there would appear to be a largely un-tapped market here in Australia. The biggest gripe Australians would have is "running the water while the unit is on." The last 15-20 years have seen some very major droughts in this country, and as such, the government tries through every means possible to encourage people to save water, and not "waste" it.
Some cities and localities had such severe water restrictions in place that car-washing and even watering gardens was practically prohibited.
I think getting disposers into homes here would need to be in conjunction with grey-water systems. The additional plant matter (maybe not so much rotting flesh, but I could be wrong), combined with soaps would make a very good fertiliser/soil-conditioning agent. The water of course is being re-used from water-intensive activities such as laundering and washing up dishes.
This really gets one to thinking!
Now I must pose a quick question; are Induction motors and split-phase motors the same thing, or am I getting terminology confused? The discussion of series-wound motors is interesting, although distinguishing all three (or two?) is making my head rumble. LOL.
Perhaps I ought to go and research, although in times past I have tried doing so and ended up confused. I believe this happened the last time we had a thread/"squabble"/debate about GE Dishwasher's with the Induction (or was it shaded-pole?) motor.
many types of induction motors
understandable confusion!! There are many iterations of induction motors. shaded pole, split phase, capacitor start, capacitor run (and both together), synchronous, etc. An induction motor operates on AC current.
A series wound motor runs on AC or DC (hence sometimes called a "universal" motor) and has electricity actually flowing in a series through the field windings (stator) into the windings in the rotor attached to the shaft. Pieces of carbon, called brushes press against a device called a commutator to send the current into the rotor coils. The commutator is wired so it causes opposite poles (S and N) in the field windings and the rotor windings to be across from each other resulting in a push and turning of the rotor.
Induction motors have no direct connection in the rotor, but a magnetic field is "induced" in the rotor windings. For example, when there is a S pole in the field, a north pole is being induced into the rotor winding across from it, etc and this gives the rotor a little push and hence it turns. To oversimplify a bit the magnetic field is rotating and carries the rotor around with it.
Yes, if a gray water system was widely used in your country, it would be advantageous to have a disposer as you say the organic material could be filtered out and used as a fertilizer. Great idea! That would be a win-win situation.
Hope things get better drought-wise for you down under. Hopefully, the El_Nino will help all of you out this year!!
.
understandable confusion!! There are many iterations of induction motors. shaded pole, split phase, capacitor start, capacitor run (and both together), synchronous, etc. An induction motor operates on AC current.
A series wound motor runs on AC or DC (hence sometimes called a "universal" motor) and has electricity actually flowing in a series through the field windings (stator) into the windings in the rotor attached to the shaft. Pieces of carbon, called brushes press against a device called a commutator to send the current into the rotor coils. The commutator is wired so it causes opposite poles (S and N) in the field windings and the rotor windings to be across from each other resulting in a push and turning of the rotor.
Induction motors have no direct connection in the rotor, but a magnetic field is "induced" in the rotor windings. For example, when there is a S pole in the field, a north pole is being induced into the rotor winding across from it, etc and this gives the rotor a little push and hence it turns. To oversimplify a bit the magnetic field is rotating and carries the rotor around with it.
Yes, if a gray water system was widely used in your country, it would be advantageous to have a disposer as you say the organic material could be filtered out and used as a fertilizer. Great idea! That would be a win-win situation.
Hope things get better drought-wise for you down under. Hopefully, the El_Nino will help all of you out this year!!
.
GE Series Wound Disposalls
Were cheap, noisey and crude disposers. There is a housing development [ Calverton ] near by where Kettler Brothers built 1800 homes from 1963-1969, they all had GE kitchens with a GE disposall, the first year or so had the GE induction units after that they all had the cheap builder SW units.
Over the years I have been in at least 1/2 of these houses and replaced at least a hundred or more of these disposers personally. The usual failures were, bad bearings, motors that went electrically dead, cutters that broke off the flywheel [ very common, and if you think that these things were noisy you should have seen people trying to use them with just one cutter, the water would dance out of the sink, LOL ] and they also suffered from really flimsy attachment clips that often allowed the unit to just start to fall loose from the sink flange.
The only good thing about these GE SW was that they were the first mass produced units that were basically corrosion proof in construction, before these came around every disposer had many parts made of cast aluminum and as a result most disposer failures were caused by corrosion and leaks. Because of this these GE SW disposalls could last as long as 10-15 years for families that did not use them much and certainly did not try grinding bones and corn cobs, etc.
As Robert [ syndets2000 ] also mentioned these GE SWDs were not great at grinding food waste very finely, I have a comparison report from Maytag comparing their new disposers with all other popular brands including the better and cheap GE SW units and the difference in grind quality is huge. I also have a similar report from Whirlpool comparing their disposers with both style GE units. I also saw the CRs test where they complained of poor grinding and last but not least I have the GE service manual for their Disposalls where they recommend the SWDs primarily for NEW CONSTRUCTION, I don't make this stuff up.
Using a SWM for a disposer is a stupid idea, SWMs are great motors and work well in appliances like vacuum cleaners where they can run at near full speed and have lots of cooling air going through them. As mentioned SWMs do produce a lot of torque at a stalled condition, but doing this much plays hell on brushes, commutators and on the windings them selves especially in an appliance with NO COOLING system.
I am sure that this is one of the reasons that we replaced so many of the units that were completely dead, often the customer even told us that they tried to grind up most of a water melon etc right before it died. [ and yes we even checked to see if the over-load protector had died, we would replace the OLP if that was all that was wrong with the unit ]
I would have to put the GE SW-Dispossalls in the same class as their use of the cheap shaded pole motors in their DWs for so many years.
But after all "Profits Are GEs Most Important Product" Along with outsourcing jobs to every country possible.
John L.
Were cheap, noisey and crude disposers. There is a housing development [ Calverton ] near by where Kettler Brothers built 1800 homes from 1963-1969, they all had GE kitchens with a GE disposall, the first year or so had the GE induction units after that they all had the cheap builder SW units.
Over the years I have been in at least 1/2 of these houses and replaced at least a hundred or more of these disposers personally. The usual failures were, bad bearings, motors that went electrically dead, cutters that broke off the flywheel [ very common, and if you think that these things were noisy you should have seen people trying to use them with just one cutter, the water would dance out of the sink, LOL ] and they also suffered from really flimsy attachment clips that often allowed the unit to just start to fall loose from the sink flange.
The only good thing about these GE SW was that they were the first mass produced units that were basically corrosion proof in construction, before these came around every disposer had many parts made of cast aluminum and as a result most disposer failures were caused by corrosion and leaks. Because of this these GE SW disposalls could last as long as 10-15 years for families that did not use them much and certainly did not try grinding bones and corn cobs, etc.
As Robert [ syndets2000 ] also mentioned these GE SWDs were not great at grinding food waste very finely, I have a comparison report from Maytag comparing their new disposers with all other popular brands including the better and cheap GE SW units and the difference in grind quality is huge. I also have a similar report from Whirlpool comparing their disposers with both style GE units. I also saw the CRs test where they complained of poor grinding and last but not least I have the GE service manual for their Disposalls where they recommend the SWDs primarily for NEW CONSTRUCTION, I don't make this stuff up.
Using a SWM for a disposer is a stupid idea, SWMs are great motors and work well in appliances like vacuum cleaners where they can run at near full speed and have lots of cooling air going through them. As mentioned SWMs do produce a lot of torque at a stalled condition, but doing this much plays hell on brushes, commutators and on the windings them selves especially in an appliance with NO COOLING system.
I am sure that this is one of the reasons that we replaced so many of the units that were completely dead, often the customer even told us that they tried to grind up most of a water melon etc right before it died. [ and yes we even checked to see if the over-load protector had died, we would replace the OLP if that was all that was wrong with the unit ]
I would have to put the GE SW-Dispossalls in the same class as their use of the cheap shaded pole motors in their DWs for so many years.
But after all "Profits Are GEs Most Important Product" Along with outsourcing jobs to every country possible.
John L.
series wound disposers
As mentioned, this was a real coup on GE's part to match a motor so precisely with its task. the torque curve on a series wound motor gives power when its needed most, under load. with speed increasing with decrease in load you have chamber clearing and cleansing.
Series wound motors are known for their durability as well as their ability to increase power with load. This is just the characteristic of the motors by nature. It also helps to explain the longevity of the GE series wound units. Look at vacuum cleaners, the series motors run for fifty, sixty years and more. Couple motor longevity with a stainless corrosion proof turntable, impellers, hooper and GE's high quality bearings and you can see why so many of these units are still in existence.
I remember Whirlpool's (pre-ISE) disposers getting a bottom rating in consumer reports for grinding ability and coarse discharge. A poorly engineered machine. But of course, Whirlpool has never had the extensive research dollars, nor the facilities that GE has.
GE is an electrical manufacturing company and has been producing electric motors since the late 1800's so their engineers are expert at matching motors to applications. The unitized series-wound motor was not only an ideal match up with motor/application but had reduced production costs. So builders could put in a bottom line unit that was of much higher quality that other manufacturer's units of the day.
ISE disposers BOL builder models were not stainless. Once again GE had a major role in the builders market with a low cost, stainless disposer with a high speed/high torque motor.
The series motor units were more economical to produce and the price savings were passed on to the consumer. When comparing units of the same place on the model line, that is comparing BOL with BOL and TOL with TOL, etc. GE's series motor disposers cost less than GE's induction motors.
So it was a real win-win system for the consumer. The series wound motor disposers gave a.) reduced cost b.) lighter weight for consumer self-installation c.) displaced less room under the consumers sink d.) had the highest speed motor available to consumers e.) had a torque that matched application load making for a unit very difficult to jam under normal usage d.) even GE's BOL series-wound motor machines provided consumers with a corrosion proof stainless hopper and turntable. e.) for those with marginal plumbing systems the high velocity discharge of the wastes is a definite advantage to the consumer in preventing clogs in their drainage lines
So one can see why they were in production for nearly twenty year. Once again a manufacturer keep a line of appliances in production for twenty years unless they are in favor with the consumer and in this case the building industry as well.
Other individuals in the AW.org experience with these units bears out the fact of their superiority in several key areas.
Bless your heart, Combo52, my apologies for my comments and those of the others on this site for causing you hurt feelings and you putting yourself on the defensive.
As mentioned, this was a real coup on GE's part to match a motor so precisely with its task. the torque curve on a series wound motor gives power when its needed most, under load. with speed increasing with decrease in load you have chamber clearing and cleansing.
Series wound motors are known for their durability as well as their ability to increase power with load. This is just the characteristic of the motors by nature. It also helps to explain the longevity of the GE series wound units. Look at vacuum cleaners, the series motors run for fifty, sixty years and more. Couple motor longevity with a stainless corrosion proof turntable, impellers, hooper and GE's high quality bearings and you can see why so many of these units are still in existence.
I remember Whirlpool's (pre-ISE) disposers getting a bottom rating in consumer reports for grinding ability and coarse discharge. A poorly engineered machine. But of course, Whirlpool has never had the extensive research dollars, nor the facilities that GE has.
GE is an electrical manufacturing company and has been producing electric motors since the late 1800's so their engineers are expert at matching motors to applications. The unitized series-wound motor was not only an ideal match up with motor/application but had reduced production costs. So builders could put in a bottom line unit that was of much higher quality that other manufacturer's units of the day.
ISE disposers BOL builder models were not stainless. Once again GE had a major role in the builders market with a low cost, stainless disposer with a high speed/high torque motor.
The series motor units were more economical to produce and the price savings were passed on to the consumer. When comparing units of the same place on the model line, that is comparing BOL with BOL and TOL with TOL, etc. GE's series motor disposers cost less than GE's induction motors.
So it was a real win-win system for the consumer. The series wound motor disposers gave a.) reduced cost b.) lighter weight for consumer self-installation c.) displaced less room under the consumers sink d.) had the highest speed motor available to consumers e.) had a torque that matched application load making for a unit very difficult to jam under normal usage d.) even GE's BOL series-wound motor machines provided consumers with a corrosion proof stainless hopper and turntable. e.) for those with marginal plumbing systems the high velocity discharge of the wastes is a definite advantage to the consumer in preventing clogs in their drainage lines
So one can see why they were in production for nearly twenty year. Once again a manufacturer keep a line of appliances in production for twenty years unless they are in favor with the consumer and in this case the building industry as well.
Other individuals in the AW.org experience with these units bears out the fact of their superiority in several key areas.
Bless your heart, Combo52, my apologies for my comments and those of the others on this site for causing you hurt feelings and you putting yourself on the defensive.
Disposers Etc
Hi Barry, I am really enjoying this conversation about different disposer designs thanks for starting it, but you have never hurt my feelings, put me on the defensive etc, I am only presenting more information for readers of this site to consider.
There are really only two people participating on this thread that have worked on hundreds and even thousands [ Robert syndets2000 ] of home disposers, a lot of the rest is just armchair theory and feel good memories of long gone failed designs.
Please keep the personal remarks out of these discussions, thanks John.
Hi Barry, I am really enjoying this conversation about different disposer designs thanks for starting it, but you have never hurt my feelings, put me on the defensive etc, I am only presenting more information for readers of this site to consider.
There are really only two people participating on this thread that have worked on hundreds and even thousands [ Robert syndets2000 ] of home disposers, a lot of the rest is just armchair theory and feel good memories of long gone failed designs.
Please keep the personal remarks out of these discussions, thanks John.
GE design
The GE design is an excellent one that has stood the test of time. Unfortunate that GE went the way of many other manufacturer's and quite producing disposers. Especially when they had a superior, and quite original design such as the series units.
Both their series units and induction units were high quality products. It unfortunate that only two mainstream manufacturer's (ISE and Anaheim) still exist in the U.S. today.
Well functioning and innovative machines, such as the series GE are going to evoke positive comments by users and those who performance test appliances as I do. That's the fun of the Automaticwasher.org site...to share!!
Combo52 you shouldn't let the positive comments by those of this site, in disagreement with you, cause you to have feelings of inadequacies.
Washer111, I still think you should look into the open market of disposers in your country. Almost no competition and environmentally sound. Organic remains are the main source of methane production in sanitary landfills. Household garbage disposals coupled with graywater systems, with capture of organic materials, for fertilization would certainly be positive potentials for the environment in your country.
The GE design is an excellent one that has stood the test of time. Unfortunate that GE went the way of many other manufacturer's and quite producing disposers. Especially when they had a superior, and quite original design such as the series units.
Both their series units and induction units were high quality products. It unfortunate that only two mainstream manufacturer's (ISE and Anaheim) still exist in the U.S. today.
Well functioning and innovative machines, such as the series GE are going to evoke positive comments by users and those who performance test appliances as I do. That's the fun of the Automaticwasher.org site...to share!!
Combo52 you shouldn't let the positive comments by those of this site, in disagreement with you, cause you to have feelings of inadequacies.
Washer111, I still think you should look into the open market of disposers in your country. Almost no competition and environmentally sound. Organic remains are the main source of methane production in sanitary landfills. Household garbage disposals coupled with graywater systems, with capture of organic materials, for fertilization would certainly be positive potentials for the environment in your country.
Just been reading around on this, out of curiosity.
People's opinions are basically negative:
- "The fact that they're banned in Switzerland/New York/{insert city or municipality here} speaks for itself"
- They waste water
- They clog drains (My Father was witness to this. He was visiting friends in Canada, and the drains were clogged. They were told it was the disposer).*
- Composting yourself is better for the environment
- Mine always stinks and I can't make it stop.
The best I could see was they were featured in Australian display homes during the 70s/80s. This was the same time KitchenAid Dishwashers (Like the KDS-17 with hot and cold connections another Australian found), and other American products like the GE-2800 were on the market.
Another issue I can see is a lot of people who have even a small backyard space have Chickens, Compost their waste or both. This reduces what needs disposer to practically zero, aside from meat scraps and onions..
* I think this boils down to usage. Particularly whether grease(s) have a chance to be washed out with hot water containing hand-washing detergents, or stronger dishwashing detergents (the latter I have seen has cleared the run for the dishwasher in our kitchen), but also whether the person has been diligent in running enough water down the sink ("water wastage") and whether they think they can just pour grease down the drain.
People's opinions are basically negative:
- "The fact that they're banned in Switzerland/New York/{insert city or municipality here} speaks for itself"
- They waste water
- They clog drains (My Father was witness to this. He was visiting friends in Canada, and the drains were clogged. They were told it was the disposer).*
- Composting yourself is better for the environment
- Mine always stinks and I can't make it stop.
The best I could see was they were featured in Australian display homes during the 70s/80s. This was the same time KitchenAid Dishwashers (Like the KDS-17 with hot and cold connections another Australian found), and other American products like the GE-2800 were on the market.
Another issue I can see is a lot of people who have even a small backyard space have Chickens, Compost their waste or both. This reduces what needs disposer to practically zero, aside from meat scraps and onions..
* I think this boils down to usage. Particularly whether grease(s) have a chance to be washed out with hot water containing hand-washing detergents, or stronger dishwashing detergents (the latter I have seen has cleared the run for the dishwasher in our kitchen), but also whether the person has been diligent in running enough water down the sink ("water wastage") and whether they think they can just pour grease down the drain.
composting
It's hard to find fault with composting. It is returning organics back to the soil!!
I assume your larger cities have an large urban population in apartments type dwellings. That might be the exception where disposers could be a health benefit over putting garbage in the trash for rodents and maggots to feed and multiply.
Does Australia you have some manner of sanitary collection of organic wastes in the larger cities and large scale composting of it in a central location?
It's hard to find fault with composting. It is returning organics back to the soil!!
I assume your larger cities have an large urban population in apartments type dwellings. That might be the exception where disposers could be a health benefit over putting garbage in the trash for rodents and maggots to feed and multiply.
Does Australia you have some manner of sanitary collection of organic wastes in the larger cities and large scale composting of it in a central location?
A Good Question
As far as I know (Not very far, and only Perth city), I don't think so.
We do have recycling, before we moved out to "The Stix," it was fortnightly. They did trial weekly, but found the loads just weren't adequate.
While we weren't far from the city, we did have an appreciable backyard, even with our 5 bed house on the 850sq. meter block we had. So a worm-farm was our composting heap for the majority of our time there.
In Perth, Apartment blocks are still only the low-rise types in low-income areas, constructed during the 1970s and 1980s. There are some more apartments going up in and around the CBD these days, so it would be interesting to see how they handle waste.
As far as I know (Not very far, and only Perth city), I don't think so.
We do have recycling, before we moved out to "The Stix," it was fortnightly. They did trial weekly, but found the loads just weren't adequate.
While we weren't far from the city, we did have an appreciable backyard, even with our 5 bed house on the 850sq. meter block we had. So a worm-farm was our composting heap for the majority of our time there.
In Perth, Apartment blocks are still only the low-rise types in low-income areas, constructed during the 1970s and 1980s. There are some more apartments going up in and around the CBD these days, so it would be interesting to see how they handle waste.
The problem here is more cost. A badger costs $400 plus and we paid almost $1000 for our evolution 200. We're impressed with how it performs but it's a huge amount of money when you can just throw the waste out.
neptunebob
Well-known member
Barry, going off on a tangent, does GE even make electric motors anymore? It seems like they don't make much of anything if you believe their strange commercials. One commercial has some goofy guy speaking backwards about how they "turn problems up side which down" and then another where they talk about being a software company. Just what are they trying to tell people?
I beleive GE still makes very large industrial type motors-no more "consumer" ones.
In a vacuum cleaner-their motors are primarily moving air-they are not trying to shred food debris.even direct air vacuums where the debris picked up goes thru the fan-the fans are designed to pass the debris like you walking thru a revolving door.Shredding items is a tougher job.Look up Eidal shredders and since this is a vertical shredder kinda like a disposer-the Eidal depends on airflow rather than water to pass shredded waste thru the unit.You can see the really large motors and cutters used in these machines-and note they are belt driven-so shock loads to the motor are not passed into it.
Composting plants could do well to have waste from kitchens routed to them-the waste from the disposer is already shredded-the compasting plant won't have to shred that.Other waste they get such as dump trucks full of tree limbs,leaves and such would have to be shredded-the compost plants have tub shredders and horizontal mill shredders for those.These types of machines can shred large tree limbs,trunks,demoltion waste, and such.
Most of the disposer service I had to do was replace bad units -or try to fix them if you could.The GE ones-series and induction had the best chance of being taken apart to replace items in them.Seems like GE engineered some serviceablilty in these machines-other disposer makers didn't do this-once the thing died-replace and throw the dead one into the dumpster.ISE units often the motor could still run-but the shredders-rotating and stationary were to worn down to be no longer useful-they could pass waste unshredded.--Thus clogged plumbing.Since Aneheim and ISE is all thats left-its getting difficult to find really effective disposers-when you had more companies making them-the designs were more comptetive.Now you take what the two give you.Slow shredding or PM motors whose rectifiers burn out long before the machine really dies.Fewer companies are selling electronic parts as freely as before.I have two PM disposers that I could reserect if I could easily get the rectifiers.The motors will run off a DC power supply.
In a vacuum cleaner-their motors are primarily moving air-they are not trying to shred food debris.even direct air vacuums where the debris picked up goes thru the fan-the fans are designed to pass the debris like you walking thru a revolving door.Shredding items is a tougher job.Look up Eidal shredders and since this is a vertical shredder kinda like a disposer-the Eidal depends on airflow rather than water to pass shredded waste thru the unit.You can see the really large motors and cutters used in these machines-and note they are belt driven-so shock loads to the motor are not passed into it.
Composting plants could do well to have waste from kitchens routed to them-the waste from the disposer is already shredded-the compasting plant won't have to shred that.Other waste they get such as dump trucks full of tree limbs,leaves and such would have to be shredded-the compost plants have tub shredders and horizontal mill shredders for those.These types of machines can shred large tree limbs,trunks,demoltion waste, and such.
Most of the disposer service I had to do was replace bad units -or try to fix them if you could.The GE ones-series and induction had the best chance of being taken apart to replace items in them.Seems like GE engineered some serviceablilty in these machines-other disposer makers didn't do this-once the thing died-replace and throw the dead one into the dumpster.ISE units often the motor could still run-but the shredders-rotating and stationary were to worn down to be no longer useful-they could pass waste unshredded.--Thus clogged plumbing.Since Aneheim and ISE is all thats left-its getting difficult to find really effective disposers-when you had more companies making them-the designs were more comptetive.Now you take what the two give you.Slow shredding or PM motors whose rectifiers burn out long before the machine really dies.Fewer companies are selling electronic parts as freely as before.I have two PM disposers that I could reserect if I could easily get the rectifiers.The motors will run off a DC power supply.
no consumer motors
Yes, that is a main advantage of a series-wound motor in that it is perfectly at home in many environments whether it be an industrial application, or a consumer application such a vacuum cleaner, blender or a disposer. Whenever tough loads of great variability are involved they are an ideal match with self-adjusting torque to match load application and high longevity.
Yes, that's my understanding as well, that GE got out of the consumer motor business several years ago. In line with Neutron Jack's goal of making GE primarily a "service" company as opposed to a manufacturing company. Fortunately his dream didn't quite come true as he envisioned. Although from a consumer product view, it may.
Yes, that is a main advantage of a series-wound motor in that it is perfectly at home in many environments whether it be an industrial application, or a consumer application such a vacuum cleaner, blender or a disposer. Whenever tough loads of great variability are involved they are an ideal match with self-adjusting torque to match load application and high longevity.
Yes, that's my understanding as well, that GE got out of the consumer motor business several years ago. In line with Neutron Jack's goal of making GE primarily a "service" company as opposed to a manufacturing company. Fortunately his dream didn't quite come true as he envisioned. Although from a consumer product view, it may.
syndets2000
Well-known member
I suppose we all have our own views
I grew up with swm disposers after our induction GE unit, and I will never like them. Thats not to say ISE units are perfect, as I recall a radical design change in 2000....that cost them dearly, with all the new models leaking out of the bottom of the stator. There were the SWM GE units I would take out for leaky bearings, impellers that came off ( as in swm, and induction units, these could be field repaired on either ones ) and failed bearings, common in any unit. Then there was that small steel cutter spot welded to the inside of the hopper of the steel swms..that came off too..And lets not forget the stamped steel units, that rusted, to almost nothing.Thats been observed in any cheap unit.....sad sad sad lol
But, yea I admire your Brand loyalty, we all have our favorites.
I grew up with swm disposers after our induction GE unit, and I will never like them. Thats not to say ISE units are perfect, as I recall a radical design change in 2000....that cost them dearly, with all the new models leaking out of the bottom of the stator. There were the SWM GE units I would take out for leaky bearings, impellers that came off ( as in swm, and induction units, these could be field repaired on either ones ) and failed bearings, common in any unit. Then there was that small steel cutter spot welded to the inside of the hopper of the steel swms..that came off too..And lets not forget the stamped steel units, that rusted, to almost nothing.Thats been observed in any cheap unit.....sad sad sad lol
But, yea I admire your Brand loyalty, we all have our favorites.
