Reversing on modern White Knight dryers et al?

[aquacycle]

Hi Folks,

I've always been a big fan of White Knight dryers - simple, easy to use, very little to go wrong and reliable. However, I am reliably informed that the latest models do not reverse in the same way as the old ones. Instead of tumbling in each direction, the machine will tumble in a single direction, then tumble in the opposite direction for a few seconds, then go back to tumbling in the previous direction. They also only do this once every 5 minutes or so, instead of every 2 minutes as they used to.

I know that my Hotpoint Aqualtis dryer did the same thing as does the Siemens I currently have and new BSH dryers don't reverse at all.

Does this leave the basic Hotpoint and Indesit dryers left on the market that actually reverse properly? I wonder what is encouraging manufactures to use this method, rather than the old fashioned multi-direction tumbles? Is this method supposedly more efficient or is it better on the motor, or purely just cheaper to make dryers that do this?

Has anybody noticed any substancial differences between the 2 methods of reverse tumble?

Chris

 

[aegokocarat]

My sisters 4 y/o white knight dryer seems to go in one direction for 5 minutes and in the other for a few seconds. My whirlpool AZB8680 does a similar thing but its pretty effective at un tangling the load, my candy vented dryer reverses in each direction for equal amounts of time.
Tom

 

[haxisfan]

The Hoover still does it but...

The Hoover tumble dryer I got last year (2012 model) reverses at different intervals depending on the program selected. The relax cycle reverses every minute or something and the 'mixed and dry' cycle takes a long time before reversing in either direction. The ordinary time and sensor cycles tumble to the right for 5 minutes and reverse for 1 minute. I think there's a program that does not reverse at all... 'Shirts' if I'm not mistaken.

The 'Wool' reverses like the sensor cycles but after it's reversed once, it pauses for a while, a bit like a washing machine... then it restarts on the other direction.

My old Hotpoint did exactly the same reverse intervals (2 and a half minutes each direction) on any cycle.

 

[nrones]

Miele, Candy Group, Gorenje, Indesit Company

...that's the list of manufacturers that still doo proper reversing. Although I didn't know higher end Indesits(Hotpoints) do a few second reverse.

I've really done a deep research about this, since my friend asked me for advice, they've had a non-reversing Siemens that they sold after 2 months of annoying usage with stuff balling up inside the drum.

Whirlpool, White Knight, and apparently new Electrolux's/AEG Protex do a very long rotation to the right (like 4-5 minutes) than just a few seconds to the left.
I have a Whirlpool AWZ 3303 with that system, and it's good for normal loads (towels, clothes etc), but it literally never dried sheets without me having to take them out and re-tangle at least two times per drying...

BSH as we all know do not reverse, and friend who was owner of that Expensive Siemens, was told in customer service a lot of people complain about it.

Miele, Candy, Gorenje and Indesit (at least the cheaper ones) really doo a propper job when it comes to reversing (and other things, now that I mention).

Gorenje has an XL option/programme, specially created for large items - so it might help even more with larger items.

Dex

 

[logixx]

I never, since the 80s, used a dryer that would reverse for more than seconds. They were all condenser dryers and you could hear that the air stream would weaken when the dryer reversed. I read that Miele dryers will reverse when they sense items balling up.

I have a modern BSH dryer and have found tangling not to be too much of a problem for the loads I dry - but when it it happens, you're really better off just drying the item(s) on the line.

Mixed loads of everyday clothes - fine.
Shirts - fine.
Jeans - fine.
All towels - fine.
Large load of fitted sheets - a little tangling but will dry just fine in the end.
Covers*, medium to very think - fine.
Covers*, thin microfiber - for get it! Won't take a minute to ball up.

Bottom line: most itmes dry just fine in the Siemens but it cannot handle thin fabrics. Not even, if I mix my microfiber sheets with regular ones. Dryer balls don't do anything, either.

* Duvet covers = 135 x 200 cm, pillow covers = 80 x 80 cm

Alex

Here's some video evidence:

 

[ozzie908]

IMHO

I believe that if the dryer is a condenser dryer it reverses less as the fan cooling the steam does not work in reverse and that the longer reversing dryers are vented.
This is regardless of manufacturer.

Austin

 

[aquacycle]

Hi Austin,

That would certainly explain the reversing on Condensers, but what about the White Knight vented dryers? Do you think WK are just sticking the same motor in them all to save on costs?

Chris

 

[nrones]

Saving on costs

To be honest, I don't think it has to do anything with saving on costs, I mean look - Indesit and Candy aren't doing it that way, and Bosch is..if it was up to costs it'd certainly be the other way around

Logixx,
Just as with you, to my friends everything was fine except for large items (bedding, table cloths, blankets...). They also have a 1400 Candy washer (which doesn't do anti-crease at the end), and they just throw from washer to dryer, without any streching, shaking etc so everything is pretty cramped in from the start, which might have 'helped' the balling up. They didn't want to change their habits, and still they didn't accept the fact that once a week they have a 'trouble-dry' with sheets, so they've sold Siemens and got a Gorenje D73325, which does it's job fine so far

Dex

 

[MrX]

We got a Bosch Heat Pump dryer and I have never regretted a purchase more!

It's constantly tangling stuff. It's almost impossible go dry bed linen in it without everything ending up in a ball.

The net result is that I can no longer wash bed linen at home which is a completely ridiculous situation.

The other issue is the self-cleaning condenser system results in lint and gunk ending up in the water drawer which is impossible to clean out.

It's also impossible to connect the dryer to a drain due to the self-cleaning condenser system!

On top of that, it leaks steam through the condensate tank quite a lot more than I would have expected.

I'm very sorry we didn't just go for another vented Miele now.

I'd say this BSH piece of junk will end up either given away or in the recycling centre out of sheer frustration!

First and last BSH dryer I ever buy.

Our old vented Miele Novotronic sensor dryer was absolutely fantastic in comparison and it was over 16 years old. We only got rid of it because someone put in completely dripping wet towels which did serious damage to the motor (water poured through the drum.

We'd done a house swap and for some reason the washing machine didn't spin and the friends of ours who'd borrowed the house couldn't fix it so put a whole machine load of completely dripping wet towels straight into the dryer!

The result was serious damage to the electronics and we opted to replace it rather than fix it due to the age.

Another decision I regret as it was a *FANTASTIC* dryer.

 

[aquacycle]

We went years with a single direction dryer. Infact, the dryer my Mum currently owns is the first reversing dryer she has ever had. Prior to that, she had a Philips D162 for about 20 years and then a Hotpoint TL51 for 12 years and neither reversed. I can't say I paid enough attention to either machines to really comment on whether or not the reversing made a difference, especially as I didn't do the ironing. Since moving out of my Mums, I haven't owned a dryer that didn't reverse.

I have noticed more and more moving towards this new, slightly bizare method of reversing. Whilst Austin's explaination above does cover the need for this on condenser dryers, I cannot see the sense in it for vented.

 

[haxisfan]

Reversing on condenser dryers...

From this thread it emerges the fact that the condensor tumble dryers' reversing method has recently been adapted to short reverse intervals. Like other members, I also see the logic of what Austin says above... i.e. the fan does not cool the steam when the motor goes in the opposite direction.

Since I never owned a condensor dryer and only vented 1s, I'm now wondering, what where condensor dryers like before this new tendency in reversing method took over? I mean, on the premise that condenser dryers have been reversing for a long time now (at least a decade?)... did they have some special kind of fan blades and the machine could reverse for longer allowing the steam to be blown away? Well... I'm puzzled!

I saw on YT a condensing version of my vented Hoover tumble dryer and it looked that it had the exact same programs as mine... and the 1 shown (relax program) behaved exactly the same as in mine by reversing every minute. I assume that on those cycles where my machine reverses for a long time (I think the 'Mix and Dry'), that machine wouldn't... well, I told you... puzzling

 

[foraloysius]

My Miele T420C condenser dryer turbles two ways for the same time. The fan however blows constantly in the same direction, so there is no problem with blowing the steam away in either direction.

 

[haxisfan]

I get it now...

Thanks foraloysius. That's it then... cutting down costs of production again by implementing one motor to do everything :-S

 

[logixx]

I think it really depends on the shape of the fan blades. The cooling fan on my Siemens is optimized to run in one direction. I suppose you get more air intake if the fan is "optimized" without increasing speed. However, these optimized fans will only deliver maximum power when running in the right direction, so too much reversing wouldn't do the drying process any good.

If you pause the video at 0:30 seconds, you can see the curved blades of the fan.

 

[ozzie908]

In addition to my earlier comment.

I think it does come down to cost I have owned a few condenser dryers and all but the Miele reversed for less time than in the main direction due to the fan and cooling steam etc the ones that did both directions equally do have separate fan motors and this of course makes them more expensive.

However I was recently at my Mothers and she has a Zanussi vented dryer that behaves just like the condenser ones and reverses for a short time only I have not noticed that it balls bed linens and nothing has been said so it must do a reasonable job.

I have myself invested in a heat pump dryer and so far I have only used a cotton cycle and that has short reverses I will experiment and see if it behaves differently on other programs.

Austin

 

[fl1012]

Might not be a new thing.....

My old circa 1998 Zanussi Electronic Sensor dryer (TDS 483EW), which is now at my Mum's place of work, reverses for only a few seconds, and that is vented.

The dryer which was previously in use at her work was a White Knight compact vented dryer, which looked to be circa late 90's and it also reversed for only a few seconds. I knew this because it hummed really loudly in reverse so you were always aware when it did it.

As you can see both are far from recent models but they both only reverse for a short time. I'm not totally convinced on cost being the driver behind this, but it certainly doesn't seem a recent introduction.

Having had experience of my Parents Electrolux Condensor for the last 12 years or so, which operates using long tumbles with a very short reverse (around 5 seconds), I can't say its had a notably negative effect on creasing or tangling. However, our previous non-reversing dryer was problematic in this respect & this is why I fail to understand why Bosch has dropped the reversing in their products.

 

[hoover1100]

Not a new thing

Some dryers have always done this, although the only one that springs to mind is Zanussi back in the day.

 

I think it has something to do with the fan design, in models that do this the fan is only designed to act as a blower in one direction, in reverse it sucks air out of the dryer.

 

I haven't had much of a chance to look at dryer fans, but the design of say, my Hotpoint with it's pressurised cabinet it makes no different which direction the fan turns in, as all it does is fill the cabinet with air, allowing the pressure gradient to suck air accross the heating element, through the drum and out the vent.

 

Perhaps more and more models do this wierd reversing due to the increasing use of generic parts such as in washers? It's cheaper to source the fans and such from one supplier so many different companies use the same parts, meaning they are more similar in design? Just an idea.

 

I have personally found that my Mum's Zanussi dryer does tangle sheets more than its predecessor, a TL61, or my own Reversomatic.

 

Matt

 

[hoovermatic]

I have a Zanussi condenser dryer which I bought (end of line) in 1999 and that reverses for a couple of seconds only. To be fair, it doesn't seem to cause an issue with tangling but I avoid drying large items like sheets and duvet covers in it as they ball up terribly.

 

[ozzie908]

Having dried bedding in the Beko for the first time

I have found it to be excellent at being able to ball every thing so tight it thinks its dry so turns off after about 10 minutes.

Will have to play with different programs see if any are better or not.

Austin