Revisiting Dishwasher Detergents with Phosphorus

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The fact that commercial DW detergents are exempt from the phosphate restriction probably means a replacement that works as well has not been found.

I'm not about to play guinea pig for these idiots, and possibly even risk my family's health. Thanks Tom for the heads-up about commercial Cascade being available at Staples. Other sources for it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Another place to find the Commercial Cascade is in the janitorial stores.There is one here in Memphis TN. Magnolia janitorial on Summer Ave.they have it but they need to change their stock out because the sunlight has gotten to the stock that they have and sunlight breaks down chlorine that is in it.I do not see why Cascade just doesnt sell the commercial version for home use in the areas that will allow it call it classic.Also thank you to the others that posted links so that I could read that it was not a federal ban on phosphates like what the customer service rep for cascade told me.
 
I feel especially sorry for....

....folks with moderately hard or hard water. The sodium carbonate in my new Sunsations definitely took cleaning down a notch in my dishwasher....I've found myself pushing the temperature boost to extend the main wash cycle to get the same level of clean that tap hot would deliver before.

That is in Portland water, with less than a third of a grain per gallon hardness. I can see where everyone else is having to wash their dishes before loading.
 
I am using the Cascade gel with something stupid from Tony Orlando & Dawn in a white bottle from Target. It has chlorine bleach but no phosphates and cleans great. I do not like the fragrance as well as the fragrance of the formula in the green jug which had more of a clean chlorine smell, but as long as it does not leave any flavor in my plastic sports bottles to alter the taste of my sweet tea, I will not kick up a fuss.
 
Out of curiosity

to experience the performance of no phosphate detergent, I picked up a box of inexpensive grocery store brand powder. It has enzymes, but no phosphates. Surprisingly, it has been doing quite well with really dirty dishes; including dried-on & cooked/baked-on soil. Everything is clean and no crud in the machine.

That said, the water here is not too hard (about 7 gpg). Using a full covered dispenser cup and the typical Smart sensor wash w/heated dry. Bottom-line; so far so good!
 
No wonder Cascade Gel is powerful

according to the next link, it contains Sodium Hydroxides, Sodium Silicate and Chlorine Bleach.

It's the first time i see a residential DW detergent containing sodium hydroxide. This strong alkali (also used to transform oils and fats into soaps) is used as a liquid in commercial dishwashers with peristaltic dosing pumps.
Commercial DW run a full cycle within a couple of minutes. Ok, they have powerful pumps, anyway detergents strenght plays a big role.

 
said that, when using these detergents, rinse aid ( aka citric acid) is a must, to neutralize those strong alkali
 
Tom

my machine has the newer "HE" or Resource Saver wash system with the alternating wash arms & low temperature wash. From start to finish w/dry; depending on how dirty the load is, the Smart Wash cycle runs 120 to 160 minutes w/125f incoming water. The water use is quite low at about 4 to 5 gallons.
 
Cascade Gel w Chlorine Bleach

Until enzymes came along, most if not all automatic dishwashing detergents sold in the USA contained chlorine bleach.

Besides sanitising dishes, chlorine bleach breaks down protein, which is why it damages both silk and wool fibers (both are made of protien). The chlorine bleach also removes colour from stains such as tea and coffe, giving a cleaner dish wash.

That being said, never could stand the scent wafting from dishwashers when running with a detergent that had chlorine bleach. Was that thrilled when Cascade and others came out with enzyme based detergents.

Seem to remember Cascade or another dishwasher detergent had a television commerical featuring housewives opening their dishwashers in the morning, and making "faces" and such over the lingering odor of chlorine.

This particular version of Cascade (lemone with LCB), is on sale this week at local supermarket, may give it a go. It does have phosphates, which always gets my vote.
 
This is what I ended up doing......

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

In the end, this is what I have decided to try. I have twelve (12) 155 ounce boxes of Cascade with Shine Shield. At Wal-Mart, I bought three (3) boxes of the Medium size “Original Space Bag” Vacuum-Seal Storage Bags - each box contains 2 bags. For a little protection of the sharp corners of the Cascade boxes rubbing directly against the Vacuum-Seal bags, I triple wrapped each box of Cascade in plastic grocery bags. Two of these 155 ounce Cascade boxes just squeeze perfectly into one Medium sized Vacuum-Seal bag.

The Tot Box will be stored in the basement, with its own lid - unfortunately, I cannot vacuum-seal the tot box itself.

At my present dishwasher detergent usage level, I am guessing that this is about a 10 to 12 year supply. If the “experiment” works, then I will be very happy in a few years from now. And if it fails, I am not out of a huge investment.

Oh, and after my initial purchase of five (5) boxes of the Cascade at a Super Wal-Mart in East Peoria (I cleaned off their shelf of this size box), the next time I went back to buy more, the shelve had been restocked with the new, Phosphorus-Free Cascade. I thought, Oh, Shit - they are making the switch already, ahead of the July switchover. Fortunately, I drove to another Wal-Mart in Peoria, and the still had several boxes of the original on the shelf. I bought six (6) more boxes. When I got home, I discovered my mistake of being 1 box short. I skipped a couple of days and went back to the 2nd Wal-Mart, and damned if they had not restocked with the new Cascade. Fortunately, in the back I could see the bright green boxes of the original - 2 boxes left, so I grabbed both.

Lesson learned - if you are buying the old Cascade, go ahead and buy what you think you will need, because the new Cascade is already out there.

Thanks again.

Mike

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Yep...the articles say that the switchover will be complete by July, not that it will suddenly take place then.

I've noticed some boxes of Finish that omit any reference to phosphate content. I assume that means they're no-phosphate already, but there are still many boxes of the old formula at other stores.
 
Keep An Eye Out For Those Sales

Normally P&G and most likely the others as well will start marking down old product to clear shelves for the new. Awhile back when Tide was going through it's changes from non-concentrated liquids to "X" and such, that is how it happened at our local shops. Also when Electrasol changed tablet formulas it was the same as well.

Am still leaning towards purchasing STPP in bulk and adding to either automatic dishwasher or washing machine loads as required. This way can kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
 
Mike - great thread! I've been watching for the switch over the last few months locally and found that I can still procure either the 6.4 mix, or the 5.5 mix fairly easily as of late (Hy Vee and Target both still have phosphates on the shelf). Each time I go to the store I buy an extra box, but I does make sense to start preserving seeing how I go through a box in about 2 months, and I live by myself!

Ben
 
Walmart has been putting the Cascade Liquipacks with Dawn on sale for the past few weeks. This week we bought the last three.
We tried the Finish All In One powerball tabs recently. Not nearly as good as the Finish Quantum tabs. It left the washload looking streaky for some reason.
 
DW Detergents here in Denver

The Walmart that I work at has mostly non-phosphate detergents. We do have some old phosphate Cascade and Finish/Electrasol left, but it's almost gone. Was shocked to see the new Cascade Complete Gel today, sans phosphates.
 
I'm going to stock up on Cascade Pacs from Sam's Club before they start stocking the non-phosphate version.

However....knowing that non-phosphate dishwasher detergents are inevitable, and that it may take manufacturers a while to devise new formulas that can match the cleaning power of current detergents, I decided to try Biokleen Dishwasher Detergent.

It was ranked as the best performing non-phosphate dw detergent by Consumer Reports. It scored an Excellent on cleaning dishes, but only Good on pots/pans.

I've ordered a 2-lb. container from Amazon.com for $7.99. I'll be sure to do one of my you-really-need-to-get-a-life tests. I'll run a normal load of dishes and one of my signature 'are you freaking kidding me?!' pots/pans tests, then post the results. With photos. And love.

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