Saturn LW300 woes..

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stricklybojack

stricklybojack

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Joined
Feb 24, 2014
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Location
South Hams Devon UK
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Man, been trying to track down a hard starting issue and I am simply flabbergasted at how many component(s) could be the cause.
Here is a list...oh scratch fuel filter, replaced and still hard to start. Currently I have ordered a new crankshaft position sensor, and since added "Evap purge solenoid" to this list.
The spark plugs were an epic ordeal to replace for the first time in this cars life (16 years 58k miles), and a first for me working on the motor in this car. If one is charged $200+ labor for the job the mechanic earned every penny imo.
Imagine that, 6 silly spark plugs? Special inverted torx sockets a must btw. Bloody knuckles should also be expected.

[this post was last edited: 3/18/2018-16:35]

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I do have a scan tool, no codes...yet.

I remember having a starting problem in one car (among too many other problems, which ultimately doomed the car). I did some online research, and found that one common cause was a sensor. I think crank position, but that doesn't matter. What got me was that there were people saying that the sensor in this particular car could act up, and the only way to rule it out for 100% certain was to replace it. I don't know if they were right, but I assume they know more than me (which isn't hard to do). I recall shuddering at the idea--the sensor was something like a 2 or 3 hour job. I multiplied that by the going labor rate (I don't feel I have the ability and I certainly don't have the tools to do it myself). $300 or whatever...which might not fix the problem... 

 

Of course, a mechanic could start by ruling out things that are easier/faster to check.

 

One other "joy" on this car was another starting problem that it always had during the time I owned it. If the car sat for more than a couple of days, it would be hard to start, and ran poorly. Once warmed up, it would be back to normal. A cold start the next day would be just fine. This car had belonged to the wife of a mechanic, and he said it was hugely frustrating for him. His wife had the same problem I did, and she'd come to him to complain. But, by that point, she'd driven it enough that the gremlins had gone away.  He'd get in, and the car would behave. (One suspects that he could probably have banished the problem if he got really aggressive. But it probably didn't feel worth it, given that the car ran just fine when driven regularly.) 
 
The injectors themselves?  Fuel pressure regulator?  My GMC Jimmy was having a problem dying...I had to drive it with two feet to keep it running, no big deal since my VW is a stick anyway so easy to drive with two feet.  But anyway, it was the idle air control valve.  I changed that and it's been fine ever since. 

I used to change spark plugs in our previous Devilles with the 4.9L V8 by lying on my back under the car and reaching up to the back of the engine....
 
Take Asko lover's advice;

try a good in the tank fuel injector cleaner, if that doesn't help, a fuel pressure regulator is about $20 and takes 5 minutes to change. Very easy.
Is the air filter very dirty?
My buddy has a Caddy Northstar. It was hard starting, and stalling. One shop analyzed it and wanted $1,200.00 to change about everything on the fuel system, coil pack, and sensors. Guess what it was? Fuel pressure regulator.
GM mark of excellence. (kidding)
The Saturn L300 wasn't that bad. My sister had one after her SC coupe. She liked it. The engine is of Opel 60 degree V6 lineage, as was the platform of the first or second generation Vectra.
 
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This car doesn’t stall. It does start better if you tun the key on position before cranking and wait for about 10 seconds. The car also lacks pep...is slow off the line.
The ful pump was replaced rcently as the original one was leaking. I am begining to think the replacement pump is not up to snuff. The pump is in tank and costs about $200 to r & r.
 
Turning the key to the run position to cycle the fuel pump to build fuel pressure is a classic symptom of a failing/weak fuel pump. I had it a few years back on my 97 Chevy Blazer. Id cycle the key two or three times and it would start normally. If I tried to start it w/o cycling it would crank but not start. Usually after getting it started first time in the morning it would be okay until it sat for many hours. Then it would bother again. I installed a new pump and no more problem. If your Saturn uses whats commonly called a spider in the intake for fuel delivery it could also be that it's leaking, causing it to lose pressure, which will cause the same symptom.

BTW...Wonderful modern stuff to work on. Years ago the fuel pump was bolted to the side of the engine. Easy to get to and replace when needed. Having the pump in the tank makes it a joy to replace. I didn't go the PITA route of dropping the tank like recommended. I removed the back seat and cut a hole in the floor to gain access to the pump.

Sorry, had to rant a little.
 
Hey Ken,

I had the same thing go wrong with my 2001 GMC Jimmy but I had zero symptoms.  We went to the lake one night, launched the boat and floated all night,  pulled the boat out of the water next morning and drove home.  Parked the Jimmy and went to bed.  Got up and went out to start...no start.  Checked fuel pressure with gauge and it was way too low.  Priced pumps and labor...ordered new Delphi pump on Amazon for $150 and spent a day dropping tank and replacing.  Wasn't too hard just tedious and had to solder new updated connector on.  But fired right up!  I read online from forums to avoid Autozone and Advance Auto parts fuel pumps because they are crap so went with Delphi who makes the Delco one for GM.
 
I also got a Delphi pump from Rock Auto. They have great prices only you have to pay shipping which can be a little high. But many times even with shipping total cost is less than your local parts store.
 
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Still working on sorting out this Saturn. Today went down to my mechanic and he installed the new crank position sensor which I had hoped would solve my problem...it didn't. That's the third time the fix that worked for other people describing similar problems with this same model car, didn't work for me.
EGR valve was first, engine temp sensor next, now the crank position sensor.
He cleaned the MAF sensor, the intake, checked the fuel pressure, and fiddled around with various other things. Finally after he noticed it usually started much better on the second try he decided it was probably the fuel pressure regulator. When he pointed it out to me it's location on the motor I also noticed a cracked vent hose, so that too may improve things.
If he is right (have to order part) then I wasted about $200 in parts and labor costs, and hours of my own labor trying to sort this thing out replacing some parts needlessly. No doubt one of the most annoying car problems i can remember dealing with.[this post was last edited: 4/25/2018-22:11]
 
Good,

it will be a good car for a college student, etc.
Ever heard of "One owner car guy"? He is in San Diego, and Montana. He has lots of youtube video's under "cereal marshmallows".
Buyer beware, always!
 
It does sound like some sort of problem with fuel delivery.

And you have my deepest sympathies. When I was having problems with my '98 Buick 3.1, I got the same list of do this, do that, do the other thing.

I've got the tools and ape-long arms, so was able to work through them. The crank position sensor replacement helped - those things are apparently a weak point of GM's Excellence in Engineering (cough, cough), but what finally did it was something totally different.

You'll get it. There are pressure tests, by the way, before one spends the money. Not even difficult or expensive - they should start there.

 

Oh, and here's something which might be causing this and you might not have checked it - the anti-theft systems GM used throughout the '90s up to 2005/6 sometimes would not trigger a security display but still not activate the fuel pump every time. That could be part of it.
 
 

Robert, I hope this new fuel pressure regulator solves your problem!

 

Question, is it hard starting all the time, hot or cold?   Or only after it sits a few hours?  (edit: I missed that you noted it's sluggish off the line.  Does power improve as RPM's build?)

 

My best friend has an early-mid 2000's Chevy truck which had an issue like this.  If it sat more than 10-15 minutes after driving, he'd have to crank & crank (15-20 seconds) before it would start.   After replacing the fuel pump (non-OEM), he would like you, have to turn the key on about 10 seconds before cranking and it would then start.

 

Bottom line in his case, it was a check valve in the fuel pump, allowing the fuel pressure to bleed off after sitting 10-15 mins.  The replacement aftermarket pump check valve worked better, but not perfect.  So after living with it for 9-10 months, he sprang for an OEM pump and it now starts as it's supposed to every time.

 

Kevin
 
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Wow, new fuel pressure regulator AND a new MAF sensor, and it's still not working right.
Now I am down to fuel pump check valve, vacuum leak, or something else.
The idle is completely stable so I doubt vacuum leak, so next up, in goes a $10 inline fuel check valve.

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A vacuum leak

doesn't always cause a rough idle. Often just a higher idle, or a whistle.
There is one other item not on your list there. Air mass flow sensor in the forward throttle body or air intake on the engine side of the air cleaner.
Sometimes the throttle body plate just need cleaning.
I just said farewell to our 2003 Impala 3800. Donated to charity. Original plugs even, and still fires right up. 155,220 miles only.
I see people driving cars around not even firing on all cylinders, so if that Saturn runs and doesn't stall, it may well serve a needy person dependable point A to B transportation until their luck turns for the better.
I once had to drive an AMC with bad door hinges, and springs. Parted that one out.
 
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What you are referring to as "air mass flow" I am calling MAF...so it's been taken care of.
The throttle body/plate has been cleaned, and the idle is not high, except after cold start for a moment as is normal.
When the mechanic put the new fuel pump in the tank he may have disturbed sediment which in turn is now interfering with the fuel pump check valve operation. My hope is by simply adding a post tank check valve I will save the cost of dropping the tank again.
 

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