stricklybojack
Well-known member
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BMP, what does that stand for?
BMP, what does that stand for?
Saturn LW300 woes..
- Thread starter stricklybojack
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vacerator
Well-known member
BMP sensor means
barometric pressure sensor. As air density changes with pressure and humidity, so should the air/fuel ratio. Otherwise, rough idling occurs, more severe than when the other sensors are adjusting to the changes in ambient, and operating temps. and humidity.
The optimal "stoicheometric" air to fuel ratio for a gasoline engine is 14.7% to one percent fuel.
barometric pressure sensor. As air density changes with pressure and humidity, so should the air/fuel ratio. Otherwise, rough idling occurs, more severe than when the other sensors are adjusting to the changes in ambient, and operating temps. and humidity.
The optimal "stoicheometric" air to fuel ratio for a gasoline engine is 14.7% to one percent fuel.
stricklybojack
Well-known member
.
As I said, i don't in any way have a rough idle so it would seem the bmp sensor is ok.
I am not selling the car, I am trying to fix it. At 58k miles, It has another 100k to go.
But thanks for your ideas, I obviously need better ones than what I have had so far!
As I said, i don't in any way have a rough idle so it would seem the bmp sensor is ok.
I am not selling the car, I am trying to fix it. At 58k miles, It has another 100k to go.
But thanks for your ideas, I obviously need better ones than what I have had so far!
vacerator
Well-known member
Ok, are there
changes in idle speed? Surging?
I dunno, you may have to live with that.
changes in idle speed? Surging?
I dunno, you may have to live with that.
stricklybojack
Well-known member
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The idle is fine, I have no problems whatsoever with idle...let's just stop any and all thoughts about idle. This was never about idle.
It will on occasion start and stumble at an extremely low idle, and input from the gas pedal will stall it. Restart and all is fine, or you can wait it out and it will recover on it's own without needing restart.
The idle is fine, I have no problems whatsoever with idle...let's just stop any and all thoughts about idle. This was never about idle.
It will on occasion start and stumble at an extremely low idle, and input from the gas pedal will stall it. Restart and all is fine, or you can wait it out and it will recover on it's own without needing restart.
vacerator
Well-known member
Ok, it's been a long thread;
Sounds like a fuel injection issue. One or more injectors may be dirty, clogged, or not functioning at 100%. Even though you've run a quality cleaner through in the fuel tank, one may have a lodged particle that didn't dissolve.
Otherwise it's electrical. Older cars wiring gets brittle, more so in the hotter south west climate.
My neighbor in Phoenix had a near mint 1982 BMW 325i 6 cylinder. He was driving on I 17 one hot day, and it just burst into flames under the hood.
Sounds like a fuel injection issue. One or more injectors may be dirty, clogged, or not functioning at 100%. Even though you've run a quality cleaner through in the fuel tank, one may have a lodged particle that didn't dissolve.
Otherwise it's electrical. Older cars wiring gets brittle, more so in the hotter south west climate.
My neighbor in Phoenix had a near mint 1982 BMW 325i 6 cylinder. He was driving on I 17 one hot day, and it just burst into flames under the hood.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Does it ever mysteriously cut out when being driven?
If so, it might be the 'fuel injection relay'. I had one go bad on my car -another brand altogether. The fault was cracked solder on the solenoid legs, the car would just conk out completely.
Funnily enough, my sister had a similar problem with a completely different make of car - at exactly the same time as me. Her problem was corrosion/crystallisation of the solder - but it had the same effect - car just conked out for no apparent reason.
If so, it might be the 'fuel injection relay'. I had one go bad on my car -another brand altogether. The fault was cracked solder on the solenoid legs, the car would just conk out completely.
Funnily enough, my sister had a similar problem with a completely different make of car - at exactly the same time as me. Her problem was corrosion/crystallisation of the solder - but it had the same effect - car just conked out for no apparent reason.
The Chevy 350 small block that is going in my 1986 Chevy Camaro is carbureted, and I really won't have to deal with any computer no sense or trouble codes. I might have the Chevy 350 small block that is going in my '86 Camaro might stall a couple of times, but it's easy to fix a carburated vehicle that stalls compared to a newer vehicle that has issues stalling for no reason at all.
vacerator
Well-known member
Sure, a carburetor
is simple, and most who can assemble a model kit can rebuild one. Even the ones with mixture control solenoids worked well. The reason being for their demise is fuel efficiency and emissions. You also get way longer spark plug life with fuelie engines.
There is always a reason for stalling. With a carb., it can be the choke, floats, accelerator pump, or dirty jets. With feulie engines, it's either pressure related, or electronic.
So pick your poison. better perfornmance, economy, cleaner air to breathe, or simplicity.
An old drivers training book showed a womans purse hanging off the choke lever on the dash, and her complaining about bad gas mileage.
Todays mechanical and electrical engineers have been able to squeeze so much more miles out of a gallon of fuel. The latest technology being direct injection, and either mechanical or hydraulic variable valve timing.
A 3.5 litre 6 cylinder Ford Cyclone V6 has the performance of a former large displacement V8, and economy of the oldest 4 cylinders. The 2.7 litre eco boost turbo version even better by 35 horsepower and a bit more torque.
is simple, and most who can assemble a model kit can rebuild one. Even the ones with mixture control solenoids worked well. The reason being for their demise is fuel efficiency and emissions. You also get way longer spark plug life with fuelie engines.
There is always a reason for stalling. With a carb., it can be the choke, floats, accelerator pump, or dirty jets. With feulie engines, it's either pressure related, or electronic.
So pick your poison. better perfornmance, economy, cleaner air to breathe, or simplicity.
An old drivers training book showed a womans purse hanging off the choke lever on the dash, and her complaining about bad gas mileage.
Todays mechanical and electrical engineers have been able to squeeze so much more miles out of a gallon of fuel. The latest technology being direct injection, and either mechanical or hydraulic variable valve timing.
A 3.5 litre 6 cylinder Ford Cyclone V6 has the performance of a former large displacement V8, and economy of the oldest 4 cylinders. The 2.7 litre eco boost turbo version even better by 35 horsepower and a bit more torque.
stricklybojack
Well-known member
.
It is scary how difficult so many things on this car are.
So, STILL trying to fix the same problem, but FINALLY the car is getting worse...meaning maybe I can finally diagnose this bitch.
The idle speed now bounces, or surges and the engine will die at low speed. YES, what I so vehemently denied being a problem earlier the car is very much doing now. Thank god I thought, that seems rather specific...ran to the internet, EUREKA, IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE. Well, not so fast.
I order the part, specifically for my model, motor and year, it arrives...but dang if I can find where it is located on the motor. Not only that, but nowhere can I find a diagram on the internet. And even worse, i then read in a Saturn chat room: “the L300 HAS NO IAC VALVE..wtf?
So either that guy in the chat room is wrong, or the parts stores listing the part “for my vehicle” are wrong.
Anybody got a clue? Know a guy who might have a clue? Ready to roll it off a cliff at this point.
[this post was last edited: 8/25/2018-17:09]
It is scary how difficult so many things on this car are.
So, STILL trying to fix the same problem, but FINALLY the car is getting worse...meaning maybe I can finally diagnose this bitch.
The idle speed now bounces, or surges and the engine will die at low speed. YES, what I so vehemently denied being a problem earlier the car is very much doing now. Thank god I thought, that seems rather specific...ran to the internet, EUREKA, IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE. Well, not so fast.
I order the part, specifically for my model, motor and year, it arrives...but dang if I can find where it is located on the motor. Not only that, but nowhere can I find a diagram on the internet. And even worse, i then read in a Saturn chat room: “the L300 HAS NO IAC VALVE..wtf?
So either that guy in the chat room is wrong, or the parts stores listing the part “for my vehicle” are wrong.
Anybody got a clue? Know a guy who might have a clue? Ready to roll it off a cliff at this point.
[this post was last edited: 8/25/2018-17:09]
dartman
Well-known member
When I thought my IAC valve was bad on my 95 Neon coupe I bought a cheap new one on eBay and no difference at all. By the way it should mount on the throttle body about the middle somewhere if it is similar to the Neon setup. My symptoms were dying every time I rolled to a stop. No codes at all except issues I was already aware of that had nothing to do with the problem or affected run quality or drivability. It turned out to be the EGR valve was probably crudded up and sticking open or something. I fixed it by unplugging the electrical plug for the valve and plugging the vacuum port that helped operate it. It still passes emissions tests and hasn't died at stop lights since. It's possible your issue is tied in with the IAC valve has it was claimed to be one of the causes for the dying problem on my Neon and mine never had cold start or warm start issues.
Good luck and probably just plugging a vacuum hose or port for the EGR valve without even unplugging the connector might cure it IF it is similar to the issue mine had. Good luck, finding intermittent or oddball problems like that can be frustrating and sometimes down to a lucky guess.
Good luck and probably just plugging a vacuum hose or port for the EGR valve without even unplugging the connector might cure it IF it is similar to the issue mine had. Good luck, finding intermittent or oddball problems like that can be frustrating and sometimes down to a lucky guess.
vacerator
Well-known member
Robert,
before you push `er off a cliff, like the one one your east end of San Diego, where those kids were playing Pokemon go, and fell off and died because they didn't see it;
Try researching a UK Opel service tech guide, for the V6, or a German one in English.
Also not all of them done by mechanics may be accurate. The L200 may not have that IAC valve, and an L300 may have one.
Another issue older cars have is a dirty throttle body that causes poor starting, idling, and performance. There is a critical sensor on it as well.
At that age, a check engine light trouble code diagnosis can lead no where other than an evaporative canister purge valve, line or tank leak, gas cap missing, or coolant sensor.
Have you also had the catlayst inspected for clogging? If the car is now lsoing power, and won't reach a speed of about 25 m.ph., have it checked.
before you push `er off a cliff, like the one one your east end of San Diego, where those kids were playing Pokemon go, and fell off and died because they didn't see it;
Try researching a UK Opel service tech guide, for the V6, or a German one in English.
Also not all of them done by mechanics may be accurate. The L200 may not have that IAC valve, and an L300 may have one.
Another issue older cars have is a dirty throttle body that causes poor starting, idling, and performance. There is a critical sensor on it as well.
At that age, a check engine light trouble code diagnosis can lead no where other than an evaporative canister purge valve, line or tank leak, gas cap missing, or coolant sensor.
Have you also had the catlayst inspected for clogging? If the car is now lsoing power, and won't reach a speed of about 25 m.ph., have it checked.
Timing chain or timing belt?
Quite a few years ago I had a Plymouth Duster with a 318 v8. I loved that car, but it began to have trouble starting and was making me crazy. It had fuel, it had air, and it had a good hot spark. So not being a properly trained mechanic yet I was really puzzled. But the thing I found really odd was that I would turn the key into the start position and the car would crank and crank and crank without ever starting. But as soon as I gave up the effort and backed the key off to the run position it would start, almost as if the car was mocking me. This didn’t happen every time, but frequently. Then my dad used a timing light to see where it was firing. I don’t recall how many degrees before top dead center the number one cylinder was supposed to fire, but it was all over the place; sometimes well before the timing mark and sometimes well after. My dad was puzzled and said he’d think it over a bit and see what he could come up with to explain what we were seeing. I drove the car to school the next day and on the way home I pushed in the clutch and the engine stalled. This time I couldn’t get it restarted so it was towed home. Finally tearing into the engine revealed the problem. The timing chain had either stretched or the nylon gear affixed to the cam shaft had word down. Whichever it was the result was the same. Too much slack had caused Crank and cam to be randomly out of sink by a small amount which caused the hard starting. On the way home from school that day they became way out of sink, the pistons came up and smacked all the valves and bent all the pushrods and the engine was done. So with that in mind, have you checked the timing?
Quite a few years ago I had a Plymouth Duster with a 318 v8. I loved that car, but it began to have trouble starting and was making me crazy. It had fuel, it had air, and it had a good hot spark. So not being a properly trained mechanic yet I was really puzzled. But the thing I found really odd was that I would turn the key into the start position and the car would crank and crank and crank without ever starting. But as soon as I gave up the effort and backed the key off to the run position it would start, almost as if the car was mocking me. This didn’t happen every time, but frequently. Then my dad used a timing light to see where it was firing. I don’t recall how many degrees before top dead center the number one cylinder was supposed to fire, but it was all over the place; sometimes well before the timing mark and sometimes well after. My dad was puzzled and said he’d think it over a bit and see what he could come up with to explain what we were seeing. I drove the car to school the next day and on the way home I pushed in the clutch and the engine stalled. This time I couldn’t get it restarted so it was towed home. Finally tearing into the engine revealed the problem. The timing chain had either stretched or the nylon gear affixed to the cam shaft had word down. Whichever it was the result was the same. Too much slack had caused Crank and cam to be randomly out of sink by a small amount which caused the hard starting. On the way home from school that day they became way out of sink, the pistons came up and smacked all the valves and bent all the pushrods and the engine was done. So with that in mind, have you checked the timing?
vacerator
Well-known member
Duster problem
sounds most like a missing flywheel tooth. Did post 1971 models have electronic ignition like full size Chryslers?
If the Opel 2.5 and 3.0 V6's have no spark distributor, and have a coil pack there isn't that type of timing adjustment. They do have a crank position sensor though, which works with the engine computer which energizes the coil pack for firing order. If one or other is faulty, poor or no operation.
sounds most like a missing flywheel tooth. Did post 1971 models have electronic ignition like full size Chryslers?
If the Opel 2.5 and 3.0 V6's have no spark distributor, and have a coil pack there isn't that type of timing adjustment. They do have a crank position sensor though, which works with the engine computer which energizes the coil pack for firing order. If one or other is faulty, poor or no operation.
Mine was a 75 and had electronic ignition. Don’t see how you arrive at a flywheel problem since the car had no problem cranking, but just to be clear the Dusters problem was definitely to much slack in the timing chain which ultimately jumped a few teeth on the camshaft drive gear with catastrophic consequences. As Roberts car is getting worse I think if timing hasn’t been looked at yet it should be, if for no other reason than to rule it out.
Robert, perhaps you should be looking at the Mirage not me!
stricklybojack
Well-known member
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Well FINALLY this story comes to an end...
do LW300’s even have IAC’s, was it by cliff or crusher? So many questions. Here is what happened.
A friend I worked at a gas station with one summer—35 YEARS AGO—mentioned to me the mechanic, Bentley, was still there working as he ever was...”Bentley always knew his stuff”, I thought, and more importantly, I trusted him.
So after three and one half decades I rolled into the nearby Shell station and told the whole sorted tale...he sorta remembered me, and said “I’ll check it out”. Two hours later I had THE answer I have been waiting months for...three letters...any guesses?
Well FINALLY this story comes to an end...
do LW300’s even have IAC’s, was it by cliff or crusher? So many questions. Here is what happened.
A friend I worked at a gas station with one summer—35 YEARS AGO—mentioned to me the mechanic, Bentley, was still there working as he ever was...”Bentley always knew his stuff”, I thought, and more importantly, I trusted him.
So after three and one half decades I rolled into the nearby Shell station and told the whole sorted tale...he sorta remembered me, and said “I’ll check it out”. Two hours later I had THE answer I have been waiting months for...three letters...any guesses?
stricklybojack
Well-known member
.
Ah no...
Try M-A-P...
a small sensor that sits on the throttle body which I just recently noticed and started to think about before I threw in the towel and took it to a pro.
Ah no...
Try M-A-P...
a small sensor that sits on the throttle body which I just recently noticed and started to think about before I threw in the towel and took it to a pro.
Manifold absolute pressure sensor. I had to replace that on my Intrepid after the original was damaged while the manifold was off the engine sitting on the floor of my garage. The car would run at higher rpm’s but would not idle at all. Glad you were able finally get it sorted out.
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